There’s gotta be something here. Help me find a way to make this the next Sabine. I’ve been toying with it, but even against a three ship build I can’t exceed 2 damage per ship on average... and that’s not cutting it.

Anyone got any ideas to make it worth the EPT sacrifice?

2 minutes ago, Lobokai said:

There’s gotta be something here. Help me find a way to make this the next Sabine. I’ve been toying with it, but even against a three ship build I can’t exceed 2 damage per ship on average... and that’s not cutting it.

Anyone got any ideas to make it worth the EPT sacrifice?

Cruise Missiles' ability to add dice based on your maneuver is a 'May' meaning you can choose to roll only 1 dice. This allows you to use them as splash damage against formation lists, and keep using them thanks to Munitions Failsafe, or go full-on with GC against non-formation lists.

No it's bad.

Even if you could make it work super reliably, all it takes to make your jank not work is to... fly more than range 1 apart.

Yeah... All of my brilliant ideas are foiled by the frell’n timing chart too

Fair ship and Kanan Biggs need the R1 though, but I don’t see SS being enough of a deterant... yet

Btw... does the timing chart “yes” arrow on performing the attack again point to step 3 or steps 3 and 2? Because if it’s just 3, some Miranda players are doing TLT wrong.

Edit: nuts, thanks space invader... hoping the old total was somehow kept.

Just now, Lobokai said:

Yeah... All of my brilliant ideas are foiled by the frell’n timing chart too

Fair ship and Kanan Biggs need the R1 though, but I don’t see SS being enough of a deterant... yet

Btw... does the timing chart “yes” arrow on performing the attack again point to step 3 or steps 3 and 2? Because if it’s just 3, some Miranda players are doing TLT wrong.

It goes back up to the start of step 2. If it went back just to step 3 there wouldn't be any dice to modify.

So I literally posted my thoughts on Saturated Salvo in another thread just a few minutes before you started this one, but for easy reference I’ll repost them here:

I dunno, I’m just not feeling Saturated Salvo. If you’re going to load up on ordnance then I don’t see the point in banking on missing with that ordnance, especially when there is so many ways out there now that can help increase your chances of hitting.

And even if you do miss and you have SS, well, the payoff isn’t that great. Half of a bomblet to any ships in the area that don’t happen to have a high enough agility. And it can hit your own ships.

But the real kicker is that it takes up the EPT slot. I mean, if it were 0 points then I could maybe see my way into taking it in the occasional list where you’re short on points, but even at 1 point there are so many better EPTs you can give your ordnance carriers, such as Deadeye (to make it easier to launch ordnance), Veteran Instincts (So you can move after more ships and TL the ones you have in arc), or Crackshot (to help you hit stuff, because you know, if you’re going to spend points on torpedos or missiles then you actually want to hit stuff when you fire them- in other words, the complete opposite of Saturated Salvo ).

So yeah... I just don’t see the point in this card. I guess FFG figured that Munitions Failsafe was getting lonely tucked away in the dark unused recesses of everybody’s binders and decided to make a friend for it.

Or maybe I’m just missing the point- anybody care to enlighten me as to why I would ever want to take SS?

Against a list of agi 0-1 ships UR with SS has a 50% to do damage on a miss (because the Defender is R1 I’d itself), so not bad for the points. On a Rho you could take OS, LRS and SLAM around to smack a big fatty that you locked in a previous round for 26 pts.

Gamma Vet could be not that bad as well if you want it cheaper.

oh and double edge

No it is bad for the points.

Very bad.

Double edge with cruise missles, ion pulse missiles, saturation salvo and chips might be fun.

Not super effective, but fun.

Better with Munitions Failsafe probably.

I was looking at Cruise, TLT, Failsafe, Salvo for 30 points. But 30 points is a bit steep for what you get.

The more i look at it the more SS looks like bad ordnance boost hiding behind a "too little too late" nerf to rebel range 1 shenanigans wrapper.

the concept looks ok, you pay 1 point to ensure your attack has a 50/50 of still doing damage if you miss on expensive ordnance.... problem is it's an ept . lone wolf, predator,ptl, vi heck even adaptability is still a more appealing option unless you're double edge (and even then that's debatable over ruthlessness)

Could this be perhaps still a vestigial boost to ordnance carriers against the aces meta?

Back then they could even survive a missile shot with the help of tokens, Palpatine, modifiers, etc. This would at least make then suffer damage with a 50% chance, or force them to use the Palpatine reroll for it. Considering that they were usually low health ships, it wouldn't be irrelevant.

3 hours ago, Innese said:

Black Sun Ace — Kihraxz Fighter	23
Saturation Salvo	1
Cruise Missiles	3
Inertial Dampeners	1
Guidance Chips	0
Munitions Failsafe	1
Vaksai	0
Ship Total: 25
Black Sun Ace — Kihraxz Fighter	23
Saturation Salvo	1
Cruise Missiles	3
Inertial Dampeners	1
Guidance Chips	0
Munitions Failsafe	1
Vaksai	0
Ship Total: 25
Black Sun Ace — Kihraxz Fighter	23
Saturation Salvo	1
Cruise Missiles	3
Inertial Dampeners	1
Guidance Chips	0
Munitions Failsafe	1
Vaksai	0
Ship Total: 25
Black Sun Ace — Kihraxz Fighter	23
Saturation Salvo	1
Cruise Missiles	3
Inertial Dampeners	1
Guidance Chips	0
Munitions Failsafe	1
Vaksai	0
Ship Total: 25

Cruise Missiles' ability to add dice based on your maneuver is a 'May' meaning you can choose to roll only 1 dice. This allows you to use them as splash damage against formation lists, and keep using them thanks to Munitions Failsafe, or go full-on with GC against non-formation lists.

This is the route I was going with Saturated Salvo, except with Jostero instead of one BSA.

I have a question... Saturation Salvo establish that:
"Each ship [...] with an agility value lower tan the squad point cost of the [Torp] or [Missile] Upgrade card..."

If Vaskai says "The squad point cost of each of your equipped upgrades is reduced by 1"

This affect to Saturation Salvo? I mean... Cruise Missiles in a Vaskai K-Fighter would affect to Ships with Agility 2 or less or 1 or less?

18 minutes ago, Erion_Fett said:

I have a question... Saturation Salvo establish that:
"Each ship [...] with an agility value lower tan the squad point cost of the [Torp] or [Missile] Upgrade card..."

If Vaskai says "The squad point cost of each of your equipped upgrades is reduced by 1"

This affect to Saturation Salvo? I mean... Cruise Missiles in a Vaskai K-Fighter would affect to Ships with Agility 2 or less or 1 or less?

Yes. It does.

Do what the cards say. The Vaksai card syas the equipped upgrqdes reduce their cost by one, so a Vaksai cruise Missile costs 2, and SS works on AGI 1 or lower in this context.

A-WING
Green Squadron 19 pts.
- Saturation Salvo 1 pt.
- Cluster Missiles 4 pts.
- Predator 3 pts.
- Munitions Failsafe 1 pt.
- A-Wing Test Pilot 0 pt.

Total: 28 pts.

Use Predator to help the Clusters miss on both attacks, dealing the Salvo effect twice, and the Failsafe keeps it around to repeat. With a cost of 4 the Clusters are superior to the Cruise as they can affect the 3 agility ships which also have a better chance of not taking any damage.

10 minutes ago, Kilrex said:

A-WING
Green Squadron 19 pts.
- Saturation Salvo 1 pt.
- Cluster Missiles 4 pts.
- Predator 3 pts.
- Munitions Failsafe 1 pt.
- A-Wing Test Pilot 0 pt.

Total: 28 pts.

Use Predator to help the Clusters miss on both attacks, dealing the Salvo effect twice, and the Failsafe keeps it around to repeat. With a cost of 4 the Clusters are superior to the Cruise as they can affect the 3 agility ships which also have a better chance of not taking any damage.

Nope. I've been corrected on this too. See the timing chart. "After Attack" really means "after all the secondary attacks your ship could possibly perform this turn."

OTOH, SS would be so much more worth it if it had 2 chances.

59 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Nope. I've been corrected on this too. See the timing chart. "After Attack" really means "after all the attacks your ship could possibly perform this turn."

OTOH, SS would be so much more worth it if it had 2 chances.

Thanks, I keep forgetting that...

2 hours ago, Ralgon said:

The more i look at it the more SS looks like bad ordnance boost hiding behind a "too little too late" nerf to rebel range 1 shenanigans wrapper.

2 hours ago, Azrapse said:

Could this be perhaps still a vestigial boost to ordnance carriers against the aces meta?

Maybe one of those effects of "the game your playing is not the game we're designing" from the last interview.

OTOH, for 1 point, this is a great card for versatility/in-the-moment-options in Epic play.

I also like that if you can trigger the Salvo ability, you can still use a Gunner. Or Baze, since you wouldn't want shoot the original target again.

12 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Nope. I've been corrected on this too. See the timing chart. "After Attack" really means "after all the secondary attacks your ship could possibly perform this turn."

OTOH, SS would be so much more worth it if it had 2 chances.

No, it doesn't. It means 'after both attacks of a single 'perform this attack twice' weapon.

If you fired another secondary afterwards (e.g. with Double Edge) you could use it in between.

36 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

No, it doesn't. It means 'after both attacks of a single 'perform this attack twice' weapon.

If you fired another secondary afterwards (e.g. with Double Edge) you could use it in between.

Yeah, this is one of those things where some key word would be much better than "attack" to indicate that the two sets of rolls are 1 linked attack and not "2 attacks" in the other sense of the word.

They are two attacks.

They just have one 'declare target' step and one 'after attacking' step.

26 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

They are two attacks.

They just have one 'declare target' step and one 'after attacking' step.

So what about TIE/D then? Does "after attacking" effects only trigger once as well??

9 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

So what about TIE/D then? Does after attacking effects only trigger once as well??

No. There are two different types of “attacks.” The first is a full attack sequence, where you have the opportunity to declare target. Those attacks fully resolve before moving through the chart again. Then there are attacks that must be performed against the same target. They resolve twice before resolving the “attack” sequence.

Go read the timing chart it explains it better than I just did.

As to the original purpose of the thread: I think saturated salvo may be best splashed in a list as opposed to spammed. There will be some lists that don’t really care because they were never planning on flying at Range 1 anyway, but it’s certainly a nice tool to have. I’m thinking 2 Black Sun Aces and something else.