So, last weekend we had our first session of our new campaign, one thing lead to another, and they ended up in an unwinnable situation. 3 of the 4 PCs died, and everyone seemed to get over it.

However, today I got a message from one of the players saying that they where unhappy with what had happened, and that "we'll make it work somehow" that their character is alive. I've found myself quite unsure about what to do, on the one hand it wasn't planned and slightly anti-climatic, on the other hand, I gave them a way out of the fight that resulted that way, they just didn't take it, and at the time they all said they were fine with what had happened, even if it took them all a few minutes to actually say anything.

Maybe its just that way this week has gone, but I can't figure out what to do with this. The other two players who had their characters die have already made new PCs, so I don't know how they'll react to this. I'm finding it slightly irritating since at the time the player said they were fine with it and they had ideas for a new character.

I'm quite lost here. Help FFG community your my only hope.

1. Did they see a body?

2. Did they die by critical injury?

I'm generally ok with the sort of revering from player death that your player suggested above. In D&D, I keep an "escape from ****" adventure in my back pocket for such occasions.

However, did your player ask that the character remain alive? Or did your player state that your character is still alive? The wording in your OP makes it sounded like the player went over your head and stated that the character is still alive. And that sort of power-play strikes a never with me.

It's a little hard to say without knowing the specifics around the character's death, but speaking generally it would irk me as a GM if a player said something like that. In particular if the situation that led to their deaths was one of their own making, and not the result of some bad luck. Sometimes your character snuffs it; that's the nature of the game. You get over it and roll up a new one.

Sounds like they all agreed that their characters died, then one character had some regrets about that. I would say that it's time for a frank chat with the whole group to ask if that's cool, and how you all want to proceed. While the GM might be the final arbiter, the entire group should be involved in this and perhaps a reasonable compromise can be reached.

Frankly, that would miff me a little were I the GM. Nobody wants a miffed GM, that's how "but but I want to LIVE" PCs end up as nemesis NPCs later down the road.

Unless they rolled a 151+ on a crit they are just unconscious. That could start a whole new adventure of them waking up in a prison (depending on the circumstances of their "death") and now they need to escape.

1 minute ago, HistoryGuy said:

Unless they rolled a 151+ on a crit they are just unconscious. That could start a whole new adventure of them waking up in a prison (depending on the circumstances of their "death") and now they need to escape.

This. This is why I asked those two questions.

I missed that post. Sorry to steal your thunder. Three conflict for me. Lol

3 hours ago, kaosoe said:

I'm generally ok with the sort of revering from player death that your player suggested above. In D&D, I keep an "escape from ****" adventure in my back pocket for such occasions.

However, did your player ask that the character remain alive? Or did your player state that your character is still alive? The wording in your OP makes it sounded like the player went over your head and stated that the character is still alive. And that sort of power-play strikes a never with me.

Did the forum censor "****", or..?

EDIT: OMG, H ELL is censored. What the actual..?

4 hours ago, awayputurwpn said:

1. Did they see a body?

For one of the PCs, who rolled bleeding out as one of their crits. The player who changed their mind said they thought their character was going to die and seemed to be expecting it, so I said they did when they ended up at about double their wound threshold. I gave the last player a choice about it and they said just to say their character died.

4 hours ago, awayputurwpn said:

2. Did they die by critical injury?

1.5 of them did (see above), one rolled bleeding out after a good roll by the NPCs, who weren't exactly medically inclined. The .5, the player said, if x happens I'm going to say my character dies, so when I told them their character died they said, "Yeah." and acted like it was the only outcome in that situation.

4 hours ago, kaosoe said:

However, did your player ask that the character remain alive? Or did your player state that your character is still alive? The wording in your OP makes it sounded like the player went over your head and stated that the character is still alive. And that sort of power-play strikes a never with me.

They stated it in the message, which after a few hours to think about it, that fact is the most frustrating thing. If they had asked I could have said "lets see what everyone else thinks, and maybe we can work something out." But, he didn't even seem to consider that the other players, or I might object to him bringing his character back.

4 hours ago, Krieger22 said:

it's a little hard to say without knowing the specifics around the character's death, but speaking generally it would irk me as a GM if a player said something like that. In particular if the situation that led to their deaths was one of their own making, and not the result of some bad luck. Sometimes your character snuffs it; that's the nature of the game. You get over it and roll up a new one.

Let me sum it up, since it will probably help. A political leader on this planet was assassinated, the PCs think the assassin might have gone into the sewers. They spend about 20-30 minutes of real time wandering, they are now in an area I hadn't planned on exploring. So I had them find this box with a tracking device inside, they take it back to the building where they were staying. They roll a despair on the open check meaning the device is activated. Then on the check to shut it down, they roll a despair and triumph (in between the two rolls they took the time to read what was in the box). So I say "you did it, but they're already here, they come in through the door. There's a window behind you're on the ground floor, so you could go out the window if you wanted." The enemies I had enter the room where two vibro ax wielding rivals and 5 minions. They stay and fight resulting in 1.5 deaths by crit, and another player saying "just say my character died."

3 hours ago, Imperial Stormtrooper said:

They stay and fight resulting in 1.5 deaths by crit, and another player saying "just say my character died."

That character is dead, by the very words of the player themself.

My way of handling it:

It is done, roll new character, enjoy a new class/race/personality to RP. No take backs, no "surprise I'm not actually dead" unless previously approved of by the GM. Heck, the group could have run away mid-fight and they'd have probably escaped alive. Instead, they chose to fight out against a larger force til their dying breath.

This could be the result of poor communication or differing expectations. Might be worth getting a sense of what happened according to the player, and then go from there.

Or maybe they didn't die... because it was a body double.

Really, you can come up with all kinds of reasons beyond the mechanics.

You can always have the player play the same character "because nobody was there to witness his death" but secretly because he's a Human Replica Droid (or whatever species he was but secretly a droid inside). That would be an interesting plot twist down the line, if he receives a bad enough wound and sees the metal underneath.

13 minutes ago, GroggyGolem said:

You can always have the player play the same character "because nobody was there to witness his death" but secretly because he's a Human Replica Droid (or whatever species he was but secretly a droid inside). That would be an interesting plot twist down the line, if he receives a bad enough wound and sees the metal underneath.

Or they were dragged back to the big boss, who cybered him up, implanted a cortex bomb and/or disabler device, and now he has a 20 point obligation to the crime boss, who expects him to be his best thug.

1 hour ago, Edgookin said:

Or they were dragged back to the big boss, who cybered him up, implanted a cortex bomb and/or disabler device, and now he has a 20 point obligation to the crime boss, who expects him to be his best thug.

This!

4 hours ago, GroggyGolem said:

You can always have the player play the same character "because nobody was there to witness his death" but secretly because he's a Human Replica Droid (or whatever species he was but secretly a droid inside). That would be an interesting plot twist down the line, if he receives a bad enough wound and sees the metal underneath.

i personally love this idea, although it might become problematic because i do recall you saying in a separate thread that this was a force heavy game and the character being a dorid replica would interfere with thier ability to use the force, although honestly ive seen enough people disregard this rule for the sake of fun and at my table we have headcanoned that force abilities are tied to consciousness rather than biology so that one of our sentient droid players could use the force as well, but i am digressing.

basically i think you should have the character have survived by virtue of the fact that their brain was transplanted into a droid body that is made to look like them, thus enabling them to continue using force powers and have no way to realize that they aren't entirely human as they suspect.

i also totally love the idea that @Edgookin had of having the individual that saved them be the crime organization that organized the hit in the first place, but i would not make them, the player or the character, aware of the extra obligation and have it come about naturally along with the story. if you work something out with the player and the other players it should be understood that their character can survive but that there is going to be an extra consequence that they will not currently be made aware of that will go a long way to improve the plot and make their survival more interesting. this way you will have two surviving characters from the previous group your players made who now have to work out their feelings about the deaths of their team, combined with the two new characters made by the players who the old characters now have to decide if they trust or not.

Hmmm whatever the decision don't make the player sit around for two and a half hours to bring in the new PC, just fudge it and let them take part from the get go..It happened to me.... if I was the person I am now back then I'd have said something and made it know that it s bad GMing,,,,every time I offered a suggestion i was shot down with 'Your not there' even the other players were giving me 'the look' but they never said anything either Oh well...

I took it as a learning curve and always ensured that players are never left out....I look back and think I could have stayed at home finishing homework or played Chaos on the Spectrum 48K and just turned up for the last half hour

4 hours ago, Edgookin said:

Or they were dragged back to the big boss, who cybered him up, implanted a cortex bomb and/or disabler device, and now he has a 20 point obligation to the crime boss, who expects him to be his best thug.

I like this idea, I had planned on the crime boss being a big villain in the campaign, I still have to make sure that everyone else in the group is okay with it, and I'm still a bit irked that they "demanded" their character back, but I can understand the frustration.

If it was the guy who just went ' say my character died' who is now saying he wants his character back, you should tell him to stop being whiney when things dont go his way, and that you will discuss getting his character back with the whole group. If it was one of the actual in game kills, just tell him tough hes dead.

I would be leery about stuffing a bomb in his head tho, unless the player is enthusiastic about the idea. Stay on the rails or your head blows up is not a good way to play the game. If the player buys in to it tho, that could be interesting. Expect the players to find a way to get out from under the bomb in the head in some unexpected way tho.

If you allow this you are in dangerous waters. Your game can be perceived as having only fake danger, and the characters mortality is a very wishy washy thing. Also having the player come back and basically invoke player agency to rez their character is kind of sketchy for me anyway. I don't know how they "died" and if you mean dead where they lost 3 times their Threshold or were just defeated, and could still be alive.

It depends on what you want for the game, but you also have the danger of making it seem like dead is optional in a game that already leans so heavy into keeping PCs alive.

51 minutes ago, Imperial Stormtrooper said:

I like this idea, I had planned on the crime boss being a big villain in the campaign, I still have to make sure that everyone else in the group is okay with it, and I'm still a bit irked that they "demanded" their character back, but I can understand the frustration.

I made the first suggestion as a way for them to play their character. Personally, I probably wouldn't allow it, at least initially, and they would meet his character as he comes after them. If the players want him back, they have to defeat him, rescue him, then save him from the security device.

2 hours ago, Archlyte said:

If you allow this you are in dangerous waters. Your game can be perceived as having only fake danger, and the characters mortality is a very wishy washy thing. Also having the player come back and basically invoke player agency to rez their character is kind of sketchy for me anyway. I don't know how they "died" and if you mean dead where they lost 3 times their Threshold or were just defeated, and could still be alive.

It depends on what you want for the game, but you also have the danger of making it seem like dead is optional in a game that already leans so heavy into keeping PCs alive.

I would only allow it if the other two players who lost characters are okay with it, and the player in question doesn't show and and say something like "Give me my character back or I'm not playing."

Then, if I allow it I would make it clear this is a one time thing, and that I won't bring back characters that die, even if they are attached to that character, or it was just a bad die roll.

2 hours ago, Edgookin said:

I made the first suggestion as a way for them to play their character. Personally, I probably wouldn't allow it, at least initially, and they would meet his character as he comes after them. If the players want him back, they have to defeat him, rescue him, then save him from the security device.

I may have mis-wrote/misspoke, I wasn't planning on implementing it in the exact way you had stated, but I thought something similar would be a good idea, if we decide to bring his character back.

20 hours ago, Imperial Stormtrooper said:

I would only allow it if the other two players who lost characters are okay with it, and the player in question doesn't show and and say something like "Give me my character back or I'm not playing."

Then, if I allow it I would make it clear this is a one time thing, and that I won't bring back characters that die, even if they are attached to that character, or it was just a bad die roll.

I may have mis-wrote/misspoke, I wasn't planning on implementing it in the exact way you had stated, but I thought something similar would be a good idea, if we decide to bring his character back.

Yeah a demanding player like that should be shut down as that's breach of social contract. I feel like characters need to have mortality or there is no tension. If the characters can't really die then danger is pretty useless.

That depends on the contract. I have run and been a player of games where character immortality was a given unless the fact that the PC could die was either agreed before the adventure or was decided by the player. As long as everybody has the elements clear neither case is a problem.

On this particular cases the player seems to be breaking the contract though, so that is a minor point. A "session 0, version 2.0" should be done IMO.