Very interesting.

Got to love the way it says "inspired by Richard Borg'

We could phrase that in a slightly less favorably way if we were so inclined.

I love Battlelore, I love the Thrones lcg game and the SoI&F. And although I'm intrigued by this new announcement I have to admit I am completely baffled at the marketing of Battlelore. The community has been asking, no...begging and pleading for more races for the base game such as undead, orcs, vampires, lizardmen, etc. since the game was even first announced years ago. Yet again something else is thrown out instead of what the people have been wanting. It would be nice if FFG would just come out and tells us what the deal is. Are you going to release more races or not ??? Seriously....

I think I'm already sold on it. As a fan of BattleLore and A Game of Thrones I think this has the possiblity to be a great game! My hopes are up!

So what about old BattleLore? Is it dead? Should we have to buy two different product lines now? Can they be merged or combined in any way?

I want to feel happy about this announcement but I can't. I'm a long time BattleLore fan and I'm getting frustrated with BattleLore's expansions and now this.

Does this add to the game or it's just a new branch of BattleLore products?

If it is a separate product line then BattleLore will get even less development time from now on? BattleLore needs a strong push to get out of the subpar expansion cycle it has been for the last 3 years. Battles of Westeros will give it a push but I don't know if this push is forward or towards a cliff....

I'm already on the fance about selling my BattleLore stuff because of the subpar expansions that seem to plague this game from its release. I'm still hoping that FFG will stop producing ridiculus expansions and give it the usual FFG expansion treatment. I'll wait a few months to see where this thing is going but if BattleLore is getting a restart or even a second product line I'm bailing out. For the record, BatteLore is my No1 favorite game but I'm very dissapointed with how things turn out.

What original BattleLore fans that follow the game from its very beginning will get for their devotion? I can understand why a new player that just buys Battles of Westeros will be happy but I feel that "veteran" players are getting the short end of the stick here?

FFG clarify what will become of BattleLore please. Richard? Is BattleLore separate from Battles of Westeros? Can they merge or combine in some way? What is the future of original BattleLore? Is it dead? Is it stalled? Will be stalled by Battles of Westeros? Are there any plans for bigger and better {much better} expansions than small boxes with 3-4 figures for 35$? Will original BattleLore fans have a reason to smile and be happy about?

How about a big 70-100$ box with a lot of stuff for BattleLore instead of small subpar expansions and spin-offs?

I want to be happy but I cannot. More info required please. Monday site update will answer some of the above questions I hope....

The little pesimist inside me says
now we know why they bought Battlelore - to addapt into all their existing game lines- hey as an added bonus the rules and sculpts for a couple of expansions are made so we can milk some money from the existing game. Result $$

The smaller optimist goes
Lets get some of our War of the Throne fans into battlelore which will provide a kick to the fan base numbers and a bit of buzz around BL so when the release after creatures is announced it'll have a leap board to go on from. Result $$ oh and we made the players happy too so probably more$ in the future.

Put me down in the Meh whatever camp, never read the books, not that fussed in getting into another long running series with a big back catalogue to chew through to be able to fully appriciate the new game (I liked Battlelore for that, no baggage, just a straight historantasy game), let alone buying a new core game and open ended number of expansions (I'm already committed to BL straight).

The only glimmer of hope is Mr Borgs post of a few months ago going into the detail of what he and his gaming group have rounded out and could be ready for release if FFG can be bothered - I suppose it all depends on the next announcement or two about straight BL.

On the plus side I'm down to just sorting out the specialist cards for my siege expansion ;-)

Chris

p.s.
So someone who knows the book world better are there, nordic wolf hunters, elves, orcs (torks) or any other fantasy stock race in there?
If there is I have a bad feeling that Mr Borgs races will be heading over 'there' rather than as Battlelore expansions.

I've heard rumoours about something like this some time ago, I can't say that I've not seen something similar coming and it's not a surprise given the amount of licenses gathered by FFG. Cannot say, unfortunately, that I find announcing it via "the event center" was the most respectful choice toward the audience (geez, I discovered it first through this board).

I don't feel really enthusiastic about it, neither, simply because I share some fears of the older fans about the line get abandoned; at this point, there is really a plethora of C&C games on the market, and at least 2 with a medieval setting (worst case scenario).

On a lighter note, however, there is room to be even a bit more optimistic (best case scenario).

The work on the new BL release in a new setting could explain why we haven't heard nothing really new in a while.

FF already has some shared rule-set between more than one game (I only hope the ratio will not be the one of Doom in comparison of Descent, but that case is a little different for many reasons) and perhaps it could manage both line.

Westeros is really different than Uchronia setting-wise: there you have low fantasy, not really "fantasy races" and "high magic"; rather human houses, intrigue, likely-historical battles (guess what? Really similar to Hundred Years or, better War of the Roses), some supernatural menaces popping in remote angles of the continent unknown to most of the Nations involved and a kind of magic powerful, but mostly used behind the scenes; with classic BL, you have more open Lore mayhem, monsters every now and then, and, if the Laughing Gods smile at us, many races.

It's different even from a production point of view. A line of miniatures about Westeros would be something like knights, knights and, again, knights. If you want some variety, you could go as far as hae peasants, brigands, some vikings and eunuch warriors, but to see them you surely must wait some years in production, because, as the reader of the series know, theirs is a storyline, for now (&%&... WRITE, mr Martin, WRITE), largely parallel to the main and most beloved one. Really, there are already many ranges of historical minis who can offer a cheap stand-off for the smart buyers. Instead, Westeros expansions could be well handed with alternative deployment and "medieval lore" deck, to differentiate houses. I can see Battles of Westeros more a Memoir-like game, with tokens used instead of minis to a great extent, too.

This may, I say, MAY free the "fantasy" of BL with greater liberty, for the classic line, allowing the races to see the light of the day.

Finally, I found on the web a pic of the back of the boxes with a content lists:

thehopelessgamer.blogspot.com/2010/02/last-bit-for-tonight-battles-of.html

Something feel really Deja Vu; as you can see, however, there will be siege rules; I can see even some difference in how morale is handled. About the rest... see you how well or how bad it can be for my previous thought... Mah (_

For once, I'd really like to see Mr Borg saying something about future directions of the game: this time I feel it really important for my consumer, rather than gamer, point of view.

Yet, seeing Universal Head selling some BL material on the homepage of Battleloremaster give me the creeps... and perhaps FFG selling will dictate the way to go for future releases... Brr, how cold...

Elberon said:

Exactly. And that is another concern I have with this new game. BL has not been fully (and properly) supported since day one. And so far FFG has yet to show us they are going to do what DOW failed to do and that is put out more races/armies and bigger better expansions in general. And Borg's post on this is now a year old. Why should we believe this new adaptation is going to be treated any different than the base game. Its really a shame that a game with such incredible potential goes by year after year virtually untouched.

As a veteran BL Gamer I say thank God,BL is a great Game but has always lacked a Soul-a Game World-The Westros will provide that & make real Campaigns possible.It's odd that the orginal 100 Years War Setting was never developed but I'm glad to see a "real" Game World being finally being addressed.

That said some more info on the "standard"BL does need to come forth as others have mentioned Westros is rather Low Fantasy & BL is High Fantasy,so will they remain seperate?Is BL Westros a Stand Alone or just an expansion?I do hope we'll get some real information,although real information & BL seem to complete strangers .

OD

Old Dwarf said:

Cheap and souless move to attach the game to an already developed "soul" rather than developing (or really just releasing - already has been developed by Richard Borg, but has continued to amaze me how this is fumbled by DoW and now FFG). The historical 100 Year's War and parallel Euchronia setting are both, respectively, rich and fertile settings.

"That said some more info on the "standard"BL does need to come forth as others have mentioned Westros is rather Low Fantasy & BL is High Fantasy,so will they remain seperate? "

The way BattleLore has been rolled out, plenty of room in the game for "no magic" (Medieval Lore rules), "low magic" (not formally issued at this time), and "high magic" (War Council rules) rules sets. While I could kinda roundaboutly empathize with those that wanted to segregate those parts of the game, I never understood the need to do so. I liked that BL was (is?) a game large in scope.

FragMaster said:

The box on the Hopeless Gamer website does seem to have "Core Set" at the bottom, implying that there are going to be more products in the line.

toddrew said:

Well there is that ......I never have understood why the 100 Year Setting,which was so much a part ot the orginial DoW Hype never got off the ground?The potential was there,different Fantasy Races representing historical nations & it never jelled.I don't see any signs FFG is really working on this so I welcome the marriage to the Westros.Alas no Dwarves .

OD

Old Dwarf said:

Alas no Dwarves .

And how can you be agreeable knowing this?!?

Alas no Dwarves

Tyrion Lannister doesn't count then, I guess?

I couldn't think of any other C&C system products I would buy beyond Battlelore, Ancients & Memoir 44 (Naploeonics/Civil War don't really interest me) and somehow FFG come up with another way to get my money again.

Curse You FFG.

I'm an insanely enthusiastic fan of the Westeros books but this announcement does nothing for me. What in the world will a Westeros core set offer that I don't already have? I can put a name to my Heroes now? Big deal. Is this really just the Battlelore base set with a new theme? Doesn't do anything for me BUT if it helps FFG sell the game and get more players, then good for them I guess.

Some have spoken of selling their Battlelore stuff out of frustration for more support. I don't get that. I LIKE my game and what I have. FFG could go bankrupt and vanish tomorrow and that wouldn't take away the enjoyment I've had... or will have.

For those unfamiliar with the books, you probably aren't going to be happy with the potential for expansion with Westeros. We're talking about a primarily medieval setting with only humans. Magic isn't unknown but it's rarely seen in battle and the current Battlelore rules already have more spells going off than I'd ever expect to see happen in a battle in Westeros. Fantastic creatures are nearly mythological. Again, Battlelore already allows for more creatures in a battle than you're likely to see in a battle in the books. The only "race" expansion that comes to mind would be the Dothraki, which are essentially desert nomads. No elves, etc. There IS the potential for an undead expansion, but I have to wonder at what form it'd take. There's not a lot of variety in Westeros undead. They're sort of like zombies that aren't stupid and that can actually move faster than a shamble. No skeletons, wights, vampires, liches, etc.

I'm not much of a fan of AGOT (the board game or the LCG) so will I continue to be disappointed in the products related to a book series I enjoy so much? Oh well, I can keep hoping the Songs of Ice & Fire Adventure game speaks to me (although I have no idea of a release date there).

TeufelHund said:

Well he never joined the Union

OD

Let me start by saying I really enjoy Battle Lore and (aside from the descriptive porn in the novels) the World of Westeros. I do have a concern in regards to this new "Battle Lore Core Set". Is it just me, or do the sculpts look like they are larger than the Battle Lore figures? Don't get me wrong, but it seems like the two games may not be compatible even if it's just due to scale. I would much rather see a set of deployment cards for an all dwarven army and all goblin army, along with supplemental units for those armies.

Hopefully the new Westeros set will be fully compatible with the figures from the other set.

How Bizzare..in more ways than one!

I have just been looking into purchasing A Game of Thrones and although I have the books Ive not yet read them . So this really kinda leaves me totally out on a limb. WTF is happening with BL and This game?

Can someone FFG or Mr Borg shed some reality and direction with these. How hard is it to say "We're doing this with this and that with that". "Wait and we'll have the goods and info to you as they come to hand". At least then we have something to go on!

I've already got Runewars and EaglevLion on order (not to mention Total War:Napoleon!) I only have so much I can morgage the house for you know! The wife got really annoyed when I put the kids on ebay! Its ok they were only up for a day.

some info from a guy who got to try the game:

http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=1019268&postcount=2008

Going by that description, the game sounds pretty different from Battlelore. Definitely different enough for me to justify having both, even if I barely have the time to play Battlelore enough. But does it justify supporting both lines? I can only hope so.

I like

AND its clear why FFG got Battlelore from the days of wonder... they didnt want to fight the law courts for the game.

Another evolution from Battle Cry yeah !!!

I'm so disappointed ... Where are the promises of new armies (ratmen, barbarian, elves, chaos dwarfs, undeads,... new heroes, new Lore decks, etc... ? Again, only "mere humans"... No magic . Why did FFG not choose at least the "High-Fantasy" Runewars/Runebound settings ? I'm so disappointed.... Until now Battlelore was my first choice game but not anymore...

diaper said:

It's obviously not BL with just a new theme & figs.It's an evolution of the C&C System,now what this means for Vanillia BL is unclear?I think that it's different enough for FFG to keep both but who knows...probably FFG & I hope they tell us .

OD

"Going by that description, the game sounds pretty different from Battlelore. Definitely different enough for me to justify having both, even if I barely have the time to play Battlelore enough. But does it justify supporting both lines? I can only hope so."

Its different box so its different game. Tell this to your wife !

brol2 said:

Unless "Battles of Westeros" is the sole direction BattleLore development is going, this doesn't need to impact anyone's decision to play BattleLore. As others have pointed out, despite what the box proclaims, doesn't seem to be that much of a BattleLore Game at all.