I like this a lot. It solves the awkward Extra Munitions upgrade, having to go into a Torpedo slot (when, thematically, it might as well have gone into a Missile or Bomb slot). Makes a lot of sense to put it on the variant and to use it to calculate the variant's upgrade cost.

In the image above, does this mean you can have two different missiles, and one of those missiles gets basically an EM token? I like that, but you have to figure that that will start to overcost an additional missile. How to explain this... hmmm. So, say you equip a 4 point Cluster Missile in that slot, and that gives you an EM token, so you effectively have 2 Cluster Missiles for the price of 4 points and the variant card (whatever it may be... 1 point, 2 points, etc.). Another missile you upgrade will come at a steep increase of its own cost (say, 3 points for Adv. Homing Missile, or Ion Pulse Missile). That's a lot to pay, relatively speaking, when you got basically a second Cluster Missile for only the cost of Variant. In this regard, I suspect that the second missile slot will go unused, except by cheaper missiles (like the XX-23 Thread Tracers). It would not make sense, economically speaking, to put another 3 or 4 point missile in that slot, so consider that you're basically relegating that slot to a Thread Tracer Missile in almost all cases. (A way to cure this would be to make both slots blue, or to give a native discount to higher-end missiles which go into white slots. Say, "If you equip a 4-5 point missile in the white slot, decrease its cost by 1 point", although I'm not sure even that would cure it).

49 minutes ago, Ziusdra said:

I like this a lot. It solves the awkward Extra Munitions upgrade, having to go into a Torpedo slot (when, thematically, it might as well have gone into a Missile or Bomb slot). Makes a lot of sense to put it on the variant and to use it to calculate the variant's upgrade cost.

In the image above, does this mean you can have two different missiles, and one of those missiles gets basically an EM token? I like that, but you have to figure that that will start to overcost an additional missile. How to explain this... hmmm. So, say you equip a 4 point Cluster Missile in that slot, and that gives you an EM token, so you effectively have 2 Cluster Missiles for the price of 4 points and the variant card (whatever it may be... 1 point, 2 points, etc.). Another missile you upgrade will come at a steep increase of its own cost (say, 3 points for Adv. Homing Missile, or Ion Pulse Missile). That's a lot to pay, relatively speaking, when you got basically a second Cluster Missile for only the cost of Variant. In this regard, I suspect that the second missile slot will go unused, except by cheaper missiles (like the XX-23 Thread Tracers). It would not make sense, economically speaking, to put another 3 or 4 point missile in that slot, so consider that you're basically relegating that slot to a Thread Tracer Missile in almost all cases. (A way to cure this would be to make both slots blue, or to give a native discount to higher-end missiles which go into white slots. Say, "If you equip a 4-5 point missile in the white slot, decrease its cost by 1 point", although I'm not sure even that would cure it).

What if the multiple missile/torpedo slot had it where you could place an extra munition token on the upgrade in that slot by paying half the ordnance upgrade's cost rounded up? That might help with not making certain slots have cost issues. So I guess for a fully loaded 3 Cluster Missile would mean that you were paying 8 pts for the 3 Cluster Missiles.

8 hours ago, citruscannon said:

I was thinking that it would show up on a variant, whereby the intention from the variant effect would be for the ship to take munitions. But on the basic variant of the ship it may not have that option.

Oh, in that sense, it seems perfectly fine ! Good idea there, better than the extra munition card.

13 hours ago, citruscannon said:

adapted from a really interesting idea by WITC_Dan on the reddit forum, I'm exploring the possibility of "stacked" munitions, instead of even having the extra munitions mechanic at all.

This would effectively mean that some ships would get white slots, for a torpedo, some would get a blue slot, for two, or red for three. But only pay once and put munitions tokens on top. (blue gives 1 token, red gives two)

So a TIE bomber gets way more bang for the buck from a missile than say, a tie advanced.




interested to hear your thoughts.

This is goddamn genius and should be in the core game so you don't end up with that silly BS of ships not having slots they should have because their upgrade bar is full.

poor, poor, ept-less Redline.

we've got a live subreddit now which will (along with this thread serve as a live reporter of current versions, place to suggest changes, etc. etc.)
have a look if you're on reddit!

https://www.reddit.com/r/XWingSupremacy/

On 10/26/2017 at 3:36 AM, Giledhil said:

Stress is a good start, but maybe you'll want to strip him from his System slot also.
Wouldn't be akward since its the first prototype of the advanced, and it will prevent Vader from becoming even more powerful when you release what's gonna look like FCS or worse, Adv. Sensors (this thing has to remain blockable !).

The pricing is not a problem, it's more Vader being possibly a massive NPE to people with lower PS and no turrets. But you surely have more intel than me thanks to playtests !

I mean, FCS isn't going to be super problematic, because unlike Corran, it isn't two separate triggers. It's the same wording as TLT or Clusters: perform this attack *twice* which means you only get the FCS afterwards.

At the same time, it is still very good. FCS won't be the problem, but, yah, everything else might be. Although Advanced Sensors Vader runs into the same issue as now, with "if you use it with Vader, you lose his second action."

So, maybe not as problematic, depending on what kind of systems upgrades we see.

Also, this idea as a whole is gorgeous, the fixes are ones I have always wanted to see, and I am eagerly awaiting the next installment.

6 hours ago, Kreen said:

I mean, FCS isn't going to be super problematic, because unlike Corran, it isn't two separate triggers. It's the same wording as TLT or Clusters: perform this attack *twice* which means you only get the FCS afterwards.

At the same time, it is still very good. FCS won't be the problem, but, yah, everything else might be. Although Advanced Sensors Vader runs into the same issue as now, with "if you use it with Vader, you lose his second action."

So, maybe not as problematic, depending on what kind of systems upgrades we see.

Also, this idea as a whole is gorgeous, the fixes are ones I have always wanted to see, and I am eagerly awaiting the next installment.

Good points all!

Anyone playtesting this?

7 hours ago, Animewarsdude said:

Anyone playtesting this?

We've got a few formally that I know about, I think it should hopefullybecome more prevalent once we finish the webpage and data entry tools

38 minutes ago, citruscannon said:

We've got a few formally that I know about, I think it should hopefullybecome more prevalent once we finish the webpage and data entry tools

Cool, looking forward to seeing results and future waves.

47 minutes ago, citruscannon said:

We've got a few formally that I know about, I think it should hopefullybecome more prevalent once we finish the webpage and data entry tools

I aim to start playtesting soon as I have the time.

How would you want any feedback we developed from that.

17 minutes ago, Animewarsdude said:

Cool, looking forward to seeing results and future waves.

Me too!

7 minutes ago, Kreen said:

I aim to start playtesting soon as I have the time.

How would you want any feedback we developed from that.

At the minute just by message is fine, but I'm making a data entry site that formalizes it, so when that's up by that. It'll be clearly advertised however

Loving the project so far! Really looking forward to trying it out!

I love the multiples of ordnance - spending a torpedo slot on having extras never felt ~quite~ right. Paying half points for ordnance tokens after you've bought the card itself sounds like a great idea.

A thought about keeping Veteran Instincts: what about restricting it to non unique pilots? Obviously it makes little (or no) sense on named pilots but it's a nice thematic choice on a rando.

3 hours ago, ClassyGungan said:

Loving the project so far! Really looking forward to trying it out!

I love the multiples of ordnance - spending a torpedo slot on having extras never felt ~quite~ right. Paying half points for ordnance tokens after you've bought the card itself sounds like a great idea.

A thought about keeping Veteran Instincts: what about restricting it to non unique pilots? Obviously it makes little (or no) sense on named pilots but it's a nice thematic choice on a rando.

I would suggest no random/un-named pilot have an EPT slot. This is part of the reason Jumpmasters were so OP.

I had this idea years ago, but I love replacing a destroyed ship with a debris field.

4 hours ago, ClassyGungan said:

Loving the project so far! Really looking forward to trying it out!

I love the multiples of ordnance - spending a torpedo slot on having extras never felt ~quite~ right. Paying half points for ordnance tokens after you've bought the card itself sounds like a great idea.

A thought about keeping Veteran Instincts: what about restricting it to non unique pilots? Obviously it makes little (or no) sense on named pilots but it's a nice thematic choice on a rando.

VI as a non-unique only seems like an interesting idea, I'll keep it in mind!

1 hour ago, Cusm said:

I would suggest no random/un-named pilot have an EPT slot. This is part of the reason Jumpmasters were so OP.

I had this idea years ago, but I love replacing a destroyed ship with a debris field.

I'm wary of giving ships EPTs, and if something is aggressively powerful, we'll tackle it asap. The current power structure for ships is that basic cheapest ships are ALWAYS EPT-less. Next rank is you can pay a cost for a 2-4pt PS upgrade and an EPT. Next rank are unique pilots. Last rank is PS10 pilots.

Debris is an interesting one. I've played games where you roll a die after destroying a ship and on a (hit) result you place debris, on any other result no debris is placed. Keeps games with swarms from just becoming horrendous.

The only problem of course is it requires that all players have enough debris, but if we set a max of 3 debris placeable per player perhaps that would alleviate that issue.

v1.1 should be released fairly shortly as a "rough balanced" game, I'll give it a good anouncement!

Thank you for listening to us and let us know feedback on our ideas. To me this really shows you are making great strides to make a great variation and not just some fanboy throwing in changes you want.

14 hours ago, citruscannon said:

Debris is an interesting one. I've played games where you roll a die after destroying a ship and on a (hit) result you place debris, on any other result no debris is placed. Keeps games with swarms from just becoming horrendous.

The only problem of course is it requires that all players have enough debris, but if we set a max of 3 debris placeable per player perhaps that would alleviate that issue.

v1.1 should be released fairly shortly as a "rough balanced" game, I'll give it a good anouncement!

It could always be made an optional rule, something to let players add something to their games for some variety or a different feel. Do you plan on having objectives or missions as a set up for this version of the game like Armada and Legion?

On 10/26/2017 at 10:29 PM, citruscannon said:

adapted from a really interesting idea by WITC_Dan on the reddit forum, I'm exploring the possibility of "stacked" munitions, instead of even having the extra munitions mechanic at all.

This would effectively mean that some ships would get white slots, for a torpedo, some would get a blue slot, for two, or red for three. But only pay once and put munitions tokens on top. (blue gives 1 token, red gives two)

So a TIE bomber gets way more bang for the buck from a missile than say, a tie advanced.




interested to hear your thoughts.

3 hours ago, Cusm said:

Thank you for listening to us and let us know feedback on our ideas. To me this really shows you are making great strides to make a great variation and not just some fanboy throwing in changes you want.

Yea, I can't promise to include everything everyone wants, but I think with more eyes everything just gets better. the success of this as a polished document relies on many eyes catching and suggesting things that no one person (or small team!) could do alone

3 hours ago, Animewarsdude said:

It could always be made an optional rule, something to let players add something to their games for some variety or a different feel. Do you plan on having objectives or missions as a set up for this version of the game like Armada and Legion?

I think once we really polish the game up and the core balance had reached some kind of dynamic equilibrium, Iwould very much like to have an alternative or slightly altered objective as a trial to see what we can make work. It might not succeed, but I expect a lot of things we will try and exclude based on how they went. DOTA did this with individual side quests in he game that gave characters a boost in gold and experience. We might try something similar, where doing certain things by a certain point confers a bonus of some kind, or maybe even a victory condition.

flag capturing, or rescue missions are not out of the question at all

Is there any work still being done on this alternate game format?

2 hours ago, Animewarsdude said:

Is there any work still being done on this alternate game format?

Haha yes absolutely. We'll have the next version out after Christmas. It's a busy time of year!

Hi folks, thought I'd post up some goodies of what's been cooking since before Christmas:

new printable pilot cards!

although yes, I know there's a small typo on the action bars, they should have evades in there, but I'll fix it when I do the group shot with the x-wings

here is the new format for the chassis variant cards, incorporating discount torpedoes on the T65C-A2 variant (each torpedo gains 1 munitions token on it)

On 10/20/2017 at 3:43 AM, citruscannon said:

Vader, Wedge, and Han for example will be pilot skill 10 ships. These are the most skilled pilots in the Galaxy, at least in this ruleset. You will not be able to bump a ship past Pilot skill 9 in any case with upgrades, so if you want to take one of these ships out, you're going to have to be creative. They will be expensive, ships will be balanced points-wise accordingly.

I really like what you're doing here. And I know I'm late to the party but I wanted to make the argument that there is a pilot missing from this list. If Wedge is a rarefied-air PS10 ace, then the Baron should be too.

This would balance the aces for the factions with two PS10 guys each, and it can also be one of the things that help make (and keep) the Interceptor unique and relevant. And in the other direction, I think that the Interceptor does (and should) feel like a ship that needs a truly great pilot at the controls to really shine. I know he's an expanded universe personality, but really so is Wedge to a large degree, because he wasn't built up as a legendary pilot in the movies. That status really comes from the EU. And in that universe, Fel is Wedge's counterpoint, the best the Empire ever had.

Anyway that's my unsolicited two cents, keep up the great work!