4 hours ago, TechnoGolem said:

Was hoping the Naga wouldn't make it into the LCG but I was expecting them to show up eventually. I'm hoping they end up as little more than semi-intelligent shadowlands creatures. They've always felt out of place to me.

Overall the fiction was enjoyable despite introducing an element I never liked. Maybe they will do something different and get me to like them this time.

So, you want to change: Intelligent beings with an ancient history, a 'group soul', immunity to the Shadowlands taint (but capable of doing evil on their own just like humans), their own code of conduct that isn't completely foreign to humans but still it's own thing, and various relations with the clans they met at different times (from allies to warily neutral to antagonistic).

Into: Things that are "little more than semi-intelligent creatures".

That's a terrible idea. Fortunately, I'm reasonably certain that's not at all what the writers have in mind. They may very well change some (or most) details about the Naga, but there's no reason to introduce them just to go "psych, these are just a type of Shadowlands beastie!".

The follow up to this will be interesting.

We saw that the Hiruma has a "Shoot First, ask questions when they are dead!" mentality. The Shinjo seems to be a little more restrained.

Will the Hiruma get an arrow off and kill the naga (thus creating hostilities between the Rokugani and the Naga)? Will the Shinjo stop her? Will both be paralyzed by fear of the unknown? Will the Naga know Rokugani and be able to communicate? So many possibilities..

4 minutes ago, Vutall said:

The follow up to this will be interesting.

We saw that the Hiruma has a "Shoot First, ask questions when they are dead!" mentality. The Shinjo seems to be a little more restrained.

Will the Hiruma get an arrow off and kill the naga (thus creating hostilities between the Rokugani and the Naga)? Will the Shinjo stop her? Will both be paralyzed by fear of the unknown? Will the Naga know Rokugani and be able to communicate? So many possibilities..

Will that be the story decision at worlds? Tune in next time...

As many are saying, many yays and squees indeed. Just the fact that they are cannon is great, and so soon. Might even get a card! Which will emediatsly go into any deck I build, no matter how little it helps what I'm doing. ;p

1 hour ago, DarwinsDog said:

Will that be the story decision at worlds? Tune in next time...

Ooooooh, that would be interesting. And would mean I'd need to actually pay close attention to worlds. Lol.

Just now, fyrm said:

As many are saying, many yays and squees indeed. Just the fact that they are cannon is great, and so soon. Might even get a card! Which will emediatsly go into any deck I build, no matter how little it helps what I'm doing. ;p

Ooooooh, that would be interesting. And would mean I'd need to actually pay close attention to worlds. Lol.

LOAD THE NAGA CANNON! FIRE AT WILL COMMANDER!

(Sorry, concept made me giggle)

6 hours ago, Togashi Gao Shan said:

So, you want to change: Intelligent beings with an ancient history, a 'group soul', immunity to the Shadowlands taint (but capable of doing evil on their own just like humans), their own code of conduct that isn't completely foreign to humans but still it's own thing, and various relations with the clans they met at different times (from allies to warily neutral to antagonistic).

Into: Things that are "little more than semi-intelligent creatures".

That's a terrible idea...

Why? Just because you don't like it?

51 minutes ago, Mirith said:

LOAD THE NAGA CANNON! FIRE AT WILL COMMANDER!

(Sorry, concept made me giggle)

Lol. In my case, it would be more "you are cordially invited to a tea serimony with our bushi snek friend. Please excuse any of their lack of understanding of our customs and traditions."

I liked the story and am pleased to see the naga. I wish this and the previous fiction had not each been split into two parts. I assume it's to draw the story out while world building and setting development continues, but I think I'd rather get a whole story of this size once a month than a short half of a story every two weeks.

1 hour ago, Kakita Shiro said:

Why? Just because you don't like it?

No, because it would be actively dumbing-down a part of the setting.

Now, I think the idea of the Naga in the Shinomen is a bit weird, but what if they had just arrived there from elsewhere? Maybe the Naga live in the Ivory Kingdoms and have set out to Rokugan on some sort of quest.

Or something else. Make them interesting, not another kind of Oni.

25 minutes ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

No, because it would be actively dumbing-down a part of the setting.

The old setting that may or may not be relevant to the new setting.

13 hours ago, Togashi Gao Shan said:

So, you want to change: Intelligent beings with an ancient history, a 'group soul', immunity to the Shadowlands taint (but capable of doing evil on their own just like humans), their own code of conduct that isn't completely foreign to humans but still it's own thing, and various relations with the clans they met at different times (from allies to warily neutral to antagonistic).

Into: Things that are "little more than semi-intelligent creatures".

That's a terrible idea. Fortunately, I'm reasonably certain that's not at all what the writers have in mind. They may very well change some (or most) details about the Naga, but there's no reason to introduce them just to go "psych, these are just a type of Shadowlands beastie!".

To be perfectly honest, I don't like anything about the Naga. I only suggested using them as Shadowlands creatures because they look more like something you might see from there. That way FF could still use the art.

Given the choice, I'd completely remove the Naga from the new setting.

Just now, TechnoGolem said:

To be perfectly honest, I don't like anything about the Naga. I only suggested using them as Shadowlands creatures because they look more like something you might see from there. That way FF could still use the art.

Given the choice, I'd completely remove the Naga from the new setting.

I'd choose the Ratlings.

9 hours ago, TechnoGolem said:

To be perfectly honest, I don't like anything about the Naga. I only suggested using them as Shadowlands creatures because they look more like something you might see from there. That way FF could still use the art.

Given the choice, I'd completely remove the Naga from the new setting.

And I, as a fan of both the Naga and of fantasy in general, am VERY happy that not only have they been included, they have been demonstrated as being A) careful B) inquisitive C) intelligent and D) capable of speech.

I find the idea of the pre-human civilizations of Rokugan to be one of the elements which build a greater sense of the world. You have the Five Races, who brought the initial order to Ningen-do and were themselves shaped by the Elemental Dragons until the rise of the Race of Thunder (the Ogres) and the first conflict with Jigoku, which lead to the downfall of their civilization. Then you have the Naga who came from a stone which fell from the sky, and warred for a time among themselves before finally getting their act together, and then coming into conflict with Jigoku, which lead to the downfall of their civilization. And depending on how you interpret the Ratlings, you have a rising people who dreamed of a glorious past only to have that destroyed by the fall of Fu Leng. What makes humanity unique is that, like the Ogres, they were race of Thunder who actually defeated Jigoku and built up a society in its wake. This creates a cycle of "rising civilization confronts Jigoku and has to defeat it and/or be broken by it." A repeating cycle is a very common motif in East Asian stories, and the inclusion of the Naga helps tell that story.

That being said, I would like to see the Naga handled a little bit better than they were initially. This is the 2010's, after all, and not the 1990's. We are little more culturally aware, and making the Naga an interesting, different point of view on the world is very cool. Naga serve in L5R, practically, as the same role as the Elves in Tolkien. They are an ancient, proud people whom the world no longer needs because it has its own new heroes now, but they still can do some good before their time is over.

20 hours ago, Kakita Shiro said:

Why? Just because you don't like it?

Because it would really upset the people who like the Naga. And if you're going to do that, why not just not reintroduce them? The people who don't like the Naga would be satisfied with that as well.

5 minutes ago, Yoritomo Reiu said:

Because it would really upset the people who like the Naga. And if you're going to do that, why not just not reintroduce them? The people who don't like the Naga would be satisfied with that as well.

This. I don't think even the most anti-Spider player would want Daigotsu and the Spider introduced as minor, forgettable characters part of another, far greater faction of Jade-loving hippies. I like the Naga, but agree with those who say they don't quite fit as a core game faction. I'd rather not see them at all than see them as everything they weren't.

5 hours ago, SirEuain said:

This. I don't think even the most anti-Spider player would want Daigotsu and the Spider introduced as minor, forgettable characters part of another, far greater faction of Jade-loving hippies. I like the Naga, but agree with those who say they don't quite fit as a core game faction. I'd rather not see them at all than see them as everything they weren't.

We want them introduced as pawns of YOJO JUNZO!!!

2 hours ago, shosuko said:

We want them introduced as pawns of YOJO JUNZO!!!

COOOOBRARARARAARAA

where do you find the old fiction?

1 hour ago, redmythos said:

where do you find the old fiction?

http://www.kazenoshiro.com/fictions/

If you're looking for naga stuff in particular, it'll be among the Clan War and Hidden Emperor sections, though you'll have to sift through other stories to find them.

16 hours ago, Fumi said:

http://www.kazenoshiro.com/fictions/

If you're looking for naga stuff in particular, it'll be among the Clan War and Hidden Emperor sections, though you'll have to sift through other stories to find them.

Or just search for the word "Naga", which is what I did when I first started playing Old5R.

On 10/19/2017 at 5:46 AM, Vutall said:

Will the Hiruma get an arrow off and kill the naga.....

Dependsssss on which Naga they sssssstumbled upon. Naga are considered to be exssssselent archersss.

My guess is that the next time the story is picked up the Hieuma draws down on them only to find that she and the Shinjo have been led into an ambush and they are already surrounded by other Naga who have already knocked their arrows and have a bead on the human intruders.

Shinjo will tell the Hiruma to lower her bow and try to keep them both from getting killed.

A story decision to accept the Naga's help or not could be interesting as the old game had both good and evil Naga. Should be fun either way.

3 hours ago, Ishi Tonu said:

Dependsssss on which Naga they sssssstumbled upon. Naga are considered to be exssssselent archersss.

My guess is that the next time the story is picked up the Hieuma draws down on them only to find that she and the Shinjo have been led into an ambush and they are already surrounded by other Naga who have already knocked their arrows and have a bead on the human intruders.

Shinjo will tell the Hiruma to lower her bow and try to keep them both from getting killed.

A story decision to accept the Naga's help or not could be interesting as the old game had both good and evil Naga. Should be fun either way.

Well, the Naga were almost entirely "good" - or at least, reasonable beings that would work with humans for the greater good* - until the 'Dark Naga' silliness that came about rather late in the CCG (during the Celestial arc). Then, the true Naga were slated to come back in full force as a faction in the upcoming Onyx Edition, which never saw release because the game was ended and sold to FFG.

*= Yeah, there was the whole "Siege of Sleeping Mountain" thing, but that was due to Hitomi being so nuts at the time that she was letting Kokujin do whatever he wanted, which included forcibly tattooing a Naga. That severed said Naga from the Akasha (their group soul). To the Naga people, that's basically murder x 1000.

Given the comment about the trail they were following not caring about being seen, I'd imagine at least one chameleon among them, so a counter ambush isn't unlikely I imagine. Unless I am misremembering, the Naga needed one of their casters [called Jakla in the old lore] to start communicating through the language barrier, although I suppose one of the shugenja left behind [probably unicorn, as I'd imagine they'd have worked out a translation spell while traveling] could work, or they could just say one/some of the Naga that were spying learned some broken Rokugani through observation.