14 hours ago, shosuko said:

I agree with you - but why not just do tier 1, 2, 3, and 4? Why have the .5?

Yes I put this way because the game is well balanced in core, if I put dragon 1 and Lion 3 per example seems like is too hard a lion can win this macthup, or presume Uni is so weak that he will loose 90% of the times.

Maybe Crane deserved to get tier 1 too, I used to hate them in old5r but now it is agressive, fun to play, and the stronghold is really cooler than +1 to bla bla bla... Is agressive with a counter, a draw holding and in my opinion guest of honor is close to lions pride brawler as the best char in core. But still I fell the advantage of dragons consistency because Crane is stronger in province breaking, but not so efficient yet in dishonor/control, and specially against Lion and Uni the matches seems like a run to me, 1 or 2 provinces breaking per turn each side and generally theres no midgame, and this matchups are close to 50/50, maybe 60/40 to Crane.

90 Player tournament in Athens recently.

1st Place: Crab

2nd Place: Crane

Unsure of where Dragon placed.

http://imperialadvisor.com/wp/2017/10/18/meta-check-athens/

the fiveringsdb influence tally marks confuse the **** out of me when i look at them.

i keep thinking my eyes are breaking and i'm reading it wrong. it looks like 5 with a strikethrough. and that's supposed to be 5?

I've never seen tally marks done that way. |||| is 5. If I had twitter i'd ask what's up with that. makes reading lists confusing at a glance.

I think Dragon is well overrated myself. Overly simple and very linear in their approach.

Then again, if the right cards come out they can be good. I just don't enjoy playing them outside of said moments when complete foolishness just unfolds. That and I feel they have a bad matchup against Crane(who I definitely think are the top) and Scorpion(they have moderate to high Glory and no real way of dealing with hard Dishonor).

3 minutes ago, Daigotsu Steve said:

I think Dragon is well overrated myself. Overly simple and very linear in their approach.

I totally agree.

I was going to make the same statement right after all of the cards were released, but decided to await upcoming tournament results. But I agree with you to the fullest: I can’t see Dragon anywhere but in the middle tier... given the cards that have been released so far.

There is only one source of actual data right now and it is here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1sQ72zgKaGEV9XcDNObWopGmnCbP9hrwtI2SqNUpTDaM/edit#gid=245662559

According to this information that includes hundred of games per clan, as imperfect as it might be, it is all we have right now so I will reserve any other thoughts on tier levels as conjecture unless proven otherwise with actual data from major tournaments held in areas with strong meta representation:

1. Scorpion

2. Crab, Crane, Dragon, Lion, Phoenix

3. Unicorn

Note: At first the data went all over the place but I noticed, since the numbers have hit this level of tests, that the win percentages have mostly stabilized with very little change.

54 minutes ago, Tokhuah said:

There is only one source of actual data right now and it is here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1sQ72zgKaGEV9XcDNObWopGmnCbP9hrwtI2SqNUpTDaM/edit#gid=245662559

According to this information that includes hundred of games per clan, as imperfect as it might be, it is all we have right now so I will reserve any other thoughts on tier levels as conjecture unless proven otherwise with actual data from major tournaments held in areas with strong meta representation:

1. Scorpion

2. Crab, Crane, Dragon, Lion, Phoenix

3. Unicorn

Note: At first the data went all over the place but I noticed, since the numbers have hit this level of tests, that the win percentages have mostly stabilized with very little change.

Thanks for linking that, was looking for the original post yesterday and couldn't seem to track it down.

5 hours ago, L5RBr said:

Yes I put this way because the game is well balanced in core, if I put dragon 1 and Lion 3 per example seems like is too hard a lion can win this macthup, or presume Uni is so weak that he will loose 90% of the times.

Maybe Crane deserved to get tier 1 too, I used to hate them in old5r but now it is agressive, fun to play, and the stronghold is really cooler than +1 to bla bla bla... Is agressive with a counter, a draw holding and in my opinion guest of honor is close to lions pride brawler as the best char in core. But still I fell the advantage of dragons consistency because Crane is stronger in province breaking, but not so efficient yet in dishonor/control, and specially against Lion and Uni the matches seems like a run to me, 1 or 2 provinces breaking per turn each side and generally theres no midgame, and this matchups are close to 50/50, maybe 60/40 to Crane.

Funny enough - the new way of dueling, and conflicts has made me start to like Crane after 20 some years of them being the only clan I specifically hated lol

6 minutes ago, shosuko said:

Funny enough - the new way of dueling, and conflicts has made me start to like Crane after 20 some years of them being the only clan I specifically hated lol

I loathed Lion, Unicorn and Crane in the old game since they always seemed to be the clans that just sucked the fun out of things. Now I can't get enough of em. I play all the clans. Being a Shadowlands player I like starting without having any Shadowlands cards to play. It's really forced me to get to know all the clans. When the Shadowlands cards do start coming, I'll know how best to corrupt each clan. Thanks FFG

6 hours ago, Tebbo said:

the fiveringsdb influence tally marks confuse the **** out of me when i look at them.

i keep thinking my eyes are breaking and i'm reading it wrong. it looks like 5 with a strikethrough. and that's supposed to be 5?

I've never seen tally marks done that way. |||| is 5. If I had twitter i'd ask what's up with that. makes reading lists confusing at a glance.

Bah, I knew there was something wrong but I couldn't figure out what!

I'll say that so far, Phoenix and Crab have been the most consistent. I worried about Phoenix against scorpion until I realized I could dishonor them out in 3 turns or take a province every turn.

Crab has been the brute though winning turn 3 dishonores regularly.

Dragon is too susceptible to being controlled in my experience. They end up investing too much in a character. Now when snap kick comes out, I'll be thrilled.

21 hours ago, shosuko said:

Funny enough - the new way of dueling, and conflicts has made me start to like Crane after 20 some years of them being the only clan I specifically hated lol

Yes I used to hate them too, now seems like a reverse Lion with more actions and some control, is very cool.

Im not having so much fun with Lion in the core set, most times my matches can be resumed at one card: For Greater Glory.. Sometimes OP, sometimes stuck in your hand.. tried to construct many decks without it.. weak. While new cards dont come Im having fun with other clans.

If you're not ruining the game for the opponent you aren't playing Crane properly.

I had no idea they were so reviled until I met some other (non-friend) players and discovered my taste is... an acquired one.

Cool google doc.

edit: found the matchups. bloops.

I kind of feel the new Crane has some elements of the old Crane, really, just with more military.

The Dragon has fate sucking, recycling, gaining, hand recursion, easy attachment recursion, and obvious synergy. It makes me think Dragon are the "Space Marines" of Conquest.

Kinda how I see them as well currently, which is not a style I enjoy. Unicorn and Lion are two others I just can't seem to enjoy.

I'm loving me some Phoenix and Crab currently though.

If dragon gets more ring manipulation and less attachment dependency then I think I'll fall back in love with the clan.