I was reading Endless Vigil and I have come across what I think is a mistake that needs to be errata'ed. On table 3-12 about building lightsaber hilts there is an option to spend three Advantages or one Triumph to add a Crossguard.

"Crossguard: The lightsaber hilt gains a crossguard as described in page 42. It gains the Defensive 1 quality (or increase [sic] the value of its Defensive quality by 1) and the user can spend [two Advantages] or [a Triumph] to hook his opponent's blade and disarm his for."

However, the crossguard hilt on page 42 says:

"Whenever an enemy engaged with the character makes a Melee or Lightsaber check, after the attach is resolved, the character may spend [a Despair] or [three Threat] to hook her opponent's blade and disarm him.”

Has there been an errata issued for this? Can this lightsaber upgrade be used offensively (where it steps on Djem Sum's toes), defensively (where it steals Threat from Improved Parry), or both?

Also more than a year ago the Devs said the were going to re-evaluation how Defense and Defensive/Reflection interacted. Have they ever issued an official clarification?

There is no errata for it. I go with the advantage/triumph version personally, as a Lightsaber wielder is no doubt going to want to use Threat/Despair to Parry/Reflect damage.

The Developer re-evaluation happened but it's not being applied to this game in any form, it's being applied to their next big project. That is, Genesys, their generic RPG system that uses the Narrative Dice system they use in Star Wars.

Here's what they did with Defense: An effect either says it adds Defense or you "gain" Defense. An effect that makes you gain Defense, such as cover or armor, is your base Defense value. This does not stack with other gain Defense effects, you simply take the highest value effect. However, effects that say you add Defense do stack with each other and they stack on top of your base Defense value, up to a max of 4 Defense. There isn't any confusion about having Defense from multiple sources, it's pretty clear cut that you can have multiple sources of effects that either make you Gain or Add Defense and how that applies.

Personally it's how I always thought the rules were intended to work in the first place.

I have one houserule for it, however. That is, the new Defense rules still make Cover useless if you already have armor with Defense, due to the fact that you gain (not add) Defense from Cover. So the simple solution was to treat all cover as if it adds Defense. That way taking cover is still a viable option even when you have expensive equipment cuz under the normal rules you could stand out in the open and have the same benefit as Cover with some Heavy Armor.

I believe this got a mention on the Order 66 podcast episode devoted to discussing Endless Vigil, with the answer from Sam Stewart being "you can use either one, or both of them if you prefer."

Granted, that was quite some time ago, so the opinion of which to use might well change, but in the meantime I'd suggest going with whichever one of the two methods you prefer. Personally I'd go with the option listed in the equipment chapter, but I've also been leaning very strongly towards changing the lightsaber crafting rules chart so that the Crossguard entry instead just reads as Defensive, and then adding a Deflection option for 3 advantage.

18 hours ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

I believe this got a mention on the Order 66 podcast episode devoted to discussing Endless Vigil, with the answer from Sam Stewart being "you can use either one, or both of them if you prefer."

Sigh. As a long time GM I have great respect for Rule 0. However, I hate when Developers invoke it to cover up lazy development practices. They were the ones that should have play tested it and decided. This is a running problem with games that push out so many splat books. The core game is rigorously play tested for balance, but then the splat books...not so much. Thanks for triggering my D&D 3.x PTSD.

I just assumed that the version you got from the basic hilt design was slightly different from the one where you crafted the hilt yourself and added the crossguard effect. If I recall correctly the "purchased" crossguard hilt also includes the +1 Defensive effect, but is slightly worse (requires 3 Threat to disarm as opposed to the crafted hilt's 2 Advantage). The difference between finding an old crossguard hilt and making one yourself, sort of.

I would use both, you can spend triumph or 2 advantages when you attack to disarm the enemy, or when he attacks you, you can spend his despair or 3 disadvantages to disarm from a defensive block

I would probably use both because it makes sense in a combat scenario.

Lets say that Kylo Ren is fighting Rey, using his cross guard lightsaber. He attacks, rolls well with lots af advantages and unleashes a flurry of slashes. He overpowers her defenses, sees an opportunity and disarms her.

If Rey is attacking and rolls poorly she gains a lot of Threats. Her attacks are sloppy, clumsy and results in her just randomly slashes against Kylo. He sees a window of opportunity in her attacks and manages to disarms her.

In the end, its up to you to use either one of the methods or both. Personally I think both works.

On 20.10.2017 at 11:18 AM, MasterZelgadis said:

I would use both, you can spend triumph or 2 advantages when you attack to disarm the enemy, or when he attacks you, you can spend his despair or 3 disadvantages to disarm from a defensive block

This does not stop on Sun djem btw, it merely reduced the disarming cost by one advantage. Sun djem is awesome because it throws the weapon out to short range, meaning at least one turn of catching the weapon, instead of just spending one maneuver to get it back.

Kinda old post i know but i am thinking about the crossguard Hilt and its usefulness. To me it seems the hilt basically offer Sum Djem + 1 defensive. Is that worth the point spend for the crossguard, considering u also get the bonus while attacked?

(My char can get Sum Djem regardless)

1 hour ago, HeleonWoW said:

Kinda old post i know but i am thinking about the crossguard Hilt and its usefulness. To me it seems the hilt basically offer Sum Djem + 1 defensive. Is that worth the point spend for the crossguard, considering u also get the bonus while attacked?

(My char can get Sum Djem regardless)

As SEApocalypse said, Sum Djem is still better because it sends the weapon out to Short range, not just Engaged.

So basically this gives me 1 point of defense. Well that seems worthless

Just now, HeleonWoW said:

So basically this gives me 1 point of defense. Well that seems worthless

It looks cool...

But costs a point for the looks, maybe a house rule could help it

Seeing this thread pop up reminded me of something. I statted out Kylo Ren (along with the entirety of the Knights of Ren) after Rise of Skywalker came out. Instead of giving Kylo Ren Improved Parry, I went with his crossguard lightsaber disarming on three Threat or a Despair. I feel it's a fun alternative for a Nemesis to have, instead of just always going with Improved Parry on the big bads.

I never did get around to running the game that I statted out the Knights of Ren and Kylo Ren for though, sadly. It's been close to a year since I've run a Star Wars campaign due to a few issues with my gaming group.