Just now, JJ48 said:

I hate it when people react negatively to negative reactions towards negativity! >:-(

To me, the main issue isn't criticism, which is, as you point out, a perfectly valid and useful thing. The problem comes when you have someone ranting about how someone flying Redline managed to roll all hits for every single piece of ordnance he fired, so clearly the TIE Punisher is OP, and needs to not only be brought into balance, but needs to be absolutely nerfed into oblivion, and how DARE you disagree and try to bring up any counter-arguments, which I am so opposed to that instead of even attempting to address them and start an actual, beneficial discussion (even if it gets heated at times), I will instead simply insult all who have an opposing view and continue asserting that my position is flawless!

Many of the people on these boards seem to understand how to properly discuss something, and even if they strongly disagree they can remain civil. And I certainly understand that sometimes tempers flare and people speak emotionally. However, it's when the vast majority of someone's posts become irrational ranting that the person's contributions tend to be more negative than positive.

I cannot like this more than once so I will quote you and tell you. I like this.

Actually, we should be careful what we complain about; and I'm not saying what you might think I'm saying @FTS Gecko. Any great game, be it on a field or on a table, will generate passion in its participants and fans if it's worth its weight. And, like a longsword, passion has two blades that strive to be equally sharp. So yeah, we all love our game, but we will, in a way, fight passionately for the health of it. We all want it to be filled with amazing fun Star Wars based ships, pilots and powers that can make fights in our imaginative space go down to a last ditch effort to win the day. The game should be heralded and hoisted and cheer all around when were all playing, but imbalance and errors should be constantly hunted, captured, interrogated and when proven, be forced to walk the plank at the tip of our cutlass dripping in blood.

6 minutes ago, HolySorcerer said:

The problem is that us complainers actually care about the game and want it to be in a better place. We criticize it because we love it, and it's disheartening to hear that the devs just don't seem to care about the game any more. Honestly, I'm getting to the point where I'm just going to stop buying stuff, as the game just keeps getting more degenerate and more restricted because of the non-stop broken bs that scum (and to a slightly lesser extent, rebels) keep getting.

As someone that doesn't complain, I must not care about the game? Weird.

At least I criticize some moves they make so I still somewhat love it.

It seems a little unfair to say the devs don't care. They'll never outright complain and thus prove they care because they can actively fix the things they'd complain about. At least they have criticized past design choices so I know they love the game.

In summation, if caring more means buying less, I don't want to care any more!

Ultimately, the bottom line is that nothing that happens here, on reddit, on Facebook, any of the podcasts or anywhere else actually has any material impact on the game whatsoever.

We're fleas trying to steer the dog we're on.

31 minutes ago, Jrjbaj said:

I might be too late to the party but from what I remember from basic math two negatives make a positive, which leads me to believe we are just fine.

The product of two negatives is positive, but the sum of two negatives is just a larger negative!

You might as well be saying two wrongs make a right!!

3 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

Ultimately, the bottom line is that nothing that happens here, on reddit, on Facebook, any of the podcasts or anywhere else actually has any material impact on the game whatsoever.

We're fleas trying to steer the dog we're on.

But Gunboat!?!

46 minutes ago, kris40k said:

This.

Its on a downward track, and fans of the game that feel this way want it to stop declining.

Sitting by silently while you watch something you love destroy itself is not an option to some. So they speak out.

Define "downward spiral", please. I think the game still ranks #1. Attendance at the FLGS is still good and growing. The appearance of meta lists at the FLGS is relegated to a 12 year old so far.

I think part of what FTS is trying to get across is not what is said but how it's said. It's the difference between telling someone the tie they're wearing doesn't go with that shirt and saying that tie is stupid and implying that they are too for wearing it. The former is tact, the latter rudeness. Yes I understand that the anonymity of the internet almost calls out for that rudeness.

To paraphrase an old carpenter's axiom, "Think twice, type once". That thought might serve us well.

29 minutes ago, HolySorcerer said:

Honestly, I'm getting to the point where I'm just going to stop buying stuff, as the game just keeps getting more degenerate and more restricted because of the non-stop broken bs that scum (and to a slightly lesser extent, rebels) keep getting.

This is the correct way to deal with no been happy about the game. If you don't like how it is.

This is what GW fans did and now I must say they have their collective **** together (GW that is).

Personally I love X-Wing I love how it evolves over time, if you don't like a game that changes every year X-Wing isn't for you.

I didn't like the Fat Han meta; I kept playing, it got better. Same thing will happen with Nym.

Hindsight that's all that it is. It's easy to judge backwards from where we stand now.

Just now, Stoneface said:

Define "downward spiral", please. I think the game still ranks #1. Attendance at the FLGS is still good and growing. The appearance of meta lists at the FLGS is relegated to a 12 year old so far.

I think part of what FTS is trying to get across is not what is said but how it's said. It's the difference between telling someone the tie they're wearing doesn't go with that shirt and saying that tie is stupid and implying that they are too for wearing it. The former is tact, the latter rudeness. Yes I understand that the anonymity of the internet almost calls out for that rudeness.

To paraphrase an old carpenter's axiom, "Think twice, type once". That thought might serve us well.

Is attendance going up though? My local community use to have a good 15-20 at tournaments and now we are excited when we hit 10... but usually only around 5-7. One of the local guys did an analysis on Store Champ attendance nationwide and it was down from previous years. I’ll try to find the link.

51 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

Your negative reaction to negativity is negatively impacting the game.

33 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

Ultimately, the bottom line is that nothing that happens here, on reddit, on Facebook, any of the podcasts or anywhere else actually has any material impact on the game whatsoever.

No material impact on the game itself, no. But on other players... that's a different matter. Exposure to constant negativity can quickly bring other people down.

29 minutes ago, ABXY said:

You might as well be saying two wrongs make a right!!

Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do!

7 minutes ago, Tbetts94 said:

Is attendance going up though? My local community use to have a good 15-20 at tournaments and now we are excited when we hit 10... but usually only around 5-7. One of the local guys did an analysis on Store Champ attendance nationwide and it was down from previous years. I’ll try to find the link.

Same for our local group.. We're lucky to be in a region where we are glut with options, but the trend is negative.

double post

6 minutes ago, Tbetts94 said:

Is attendance going up though? My local community use to have a good 15-20 at tournaments and now we are excited when we hit 10... but usually only around 5-7. One of the local guys did an analysis on Store Champ attendance nationwide and it was down from previous years. I’ll try to find the link.

The game has been around a very long time (In miniature terms). I wouldn't at all be shocked for people to be leaving or taking a break.

I see a lot of people going back to 40K as they joined X-Wing because that was in decline and they weren't happy.

40K is on the way back up attendance wise. The true measure of X-Wing will be if i can weather a decline before coming back up.

The market is also saturated with Star Wars Product due to the mouse, this will have an impact on the game. I believe SW merc is close to saturation-point in the market.

Just now, the1hodgy said:

The game has been around a very long time (In miniature terms). I wouldn't at all be shocked for people to be leaving or taking a break.

I see a lot of people going back to 40K as they joined X-Wing because that was in decline and they weren't happy.

40K is on the way back up attendance wise. The true measure of X-Wing will be if i can weather a decline before coming back up.

The market is also saturated with Star Wars Product due to the mouse, this will have an impact on the game. I believe SW merc is close to saturation-point in the market.

Also, store champs were in summer vs fall. Which is a huge deal.

7 minutes ago, Timathius said:

Also, store champs were in summer vs fall. Which is a huge deal.

Exactly; something as simple as the weather or a variance in temp can effect.

I expect to see an up take just after Christmas when people are bought core set as a gift. (or Black Friday for state side)

21 minutes ago, ViscerothSWG said:

It seems a little unfair to say the devs don't care. They'll never outright complain and thus prove they care because they can actively fix the things they'd complain about. At least they have criticized past design choices so I know they love the game.

Their recent interview doesn't paint a picture of a design team who really cares about the game, just a team who cares about sales of new product. But lets put their words aside, maybe they were under extreme restrictions about what they could say and played it safe. Lets look at their actions instead. The jumpmaster has been an OP broken mess sense wave 8, wave 13 is on the boat and it still hasn't been properly addressed. The X-Wing has been overcosted since the B-Wing came out, Alex has had 10 waves and plenty of opportunity to fix the games namesake ship. We got integrated astromech and an excuse. Perhaps they are afraid of buffing it because of Biggs? Well why have they not bothered with an errata for Biggs so he isn't such an issue? No, instead they release Lowrick, doubling down on the Biggs problem. The Empire finally has a competitive list, better nerf the Emperor and x7. And now they release Nym, but they weren't satisfied with just releasing one broken pilot, so they release him for both scum and rebels.

Forgive me for being negative, but these issues do not indicate a dev team that cares about the health of the game, they speak of a dev team that cares about sales of the latest meta warping product.

6 minutes ago, HolySorcerer said:

Their recent interview doesn't paint a picture of a design team who really cares about the game.

Really? because that's not what I took away from interview.

I got picture of a team that wants to do more, but because of small size of team can't. I get the impression that they care but the higher ups drive the ship. That was pretty much clear when talking about the gun boat.

My takeway is precisely what @HolySorcerer said - the dev's have one metric to judge success by and that's sales. So long as the game is selling they're doing a good job, and they don't really consider competitive balance to be their problem unless it gets to points where it's so ridiculous that it's hurting sales.

In the meantime if players could come up with some alternate play formats that fix the game for them, that would be great.

Maybe just a cry to more civil criticism and discourse would have been better received.

There are some that see past FAQ moves and releases (all hail Gunboat) as evidence that the forums can impact the meta and it’s become chum for sharks.

This is the publisher forum that is as close to an official space on the web for people to catch the devs eyes. Whether that actually happens or not, I dunno, but until I find a better venue, right here is where I’ll vent about counterintuitive point costs, unequal distribution of upgrades, and anything else I’d like to see changed.

Frankly, I do it because I’d like to see the game continue, occasionally I’m off base and conversation here helps me see things more clearly, and most of all, when my day puts me in a place where I can’t be playing XWing, I can at least come here and talk about it.

Just now, Stay On The Leader said:

My takeway is precisely what @HolySorcerer said - the dev's have one metric to judge success by and that's sales.

Would you not say that is a key indicator for a game? I know which ones i would expect an executive to look at.

which loops me back to my point; if you aren't happy stop buying it's the only way they understand.

55 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

To me, the main issue isn't criticism, which is, as you point out, a perfectly valid and useful thing.

Absolutely. It's worth pointing out that there's a big difference between constructive criticism and passive-aggressive, sulky snark.

1 minute ago, the1hodgy said:

Would you not say that is a key indicator for a game? I know which ones i would expect an executive to look at.

which loops me back to my point; if you aren't happy stop buying it's the only way they understand.

I 100% agree. I stopped giving any thought whatsoever to balance or the FAQ or any of that: whatever they come up with will be utterly inadequate anyway.

The game is what it is. Decide to buy it or not.

1 hour ago, Rinzler in a Tie said:

Completely agree.
I encourage you to be active in all the ways you want to be on the forum. It's a bit hypocritical for me to say you shouldn't criticize the complainers, but you will entice more complaining.
So carry on.

The holy church of GUNBOAT is build on complaints. 300+ pages of wishing and begging and sarcastically complaining. Wave after wave after wave without HER and now the dawn is near. That should be proof to the faithless that the complain is the WAY it is HER WAY it is GUNBOAT.
Not complaining is NOT acceptable to HER. SHE who was raised by the complains is going to raise the complainers. SHE is near and not complaining in wake of her appearing is heresy. DO not NOT complain cause it is hurting the GUNBOAT and what hurts the GUNBOAT is hurting the GAME and the META the trinity of our faith. Therefore stand up, raise, rejoice for HER coming an complain.






dosn't matter what you complain about though. If you complain about the complaining thats OK.

5 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

utterly inadequate anyway.

I feel you maybe the polar opposite of me here. I will wait and see, if it's not "adequate" am sure further changes will happen.

only a matter of time. I for one look forward to change upon change.