The way I've seen most tabletop communities go is the more the game grows, the more people b*tch about it, which is, honestly, fine. Feedback IS part of the feedback loop. Can't have your feedback burger without negatives.

What ISN'T good and normal is if that evolves into people constantly b*tching about the game while playing the game, especially based on other people's experiences (i.e. "the meta"). The Power Gap between ships is by design rather small and dice and chance are a thing as much as synergy.

Maybe if we stopped acting like we were all contributing to the Top 20 lists' magic on Metawing (and maybe steal less of these ideas constantly), that would put some much needed perspective on the negativity here.

Feedback and concern is all fine and well. But I could very well do without the incessant apocalypse predictions.

Fly casual.

#TheGeckosNailedThePoint

1 hour ago, Stay On The Leader said:

Ultimately, the bottom line is that nothing that happens here, on reddit, on Facebook, any of the podcasts or anywhere else actually has any material impact on the game whatsoever.

We're fleas trying to steer the dog we're on.

Except for the GUNBOAT thread. That may have done something.

**** I really need a timeout here. I‘m fed up with all the idiotic hating and negativity, the ridiculously biased ‚fixes‘, the non-arguments about the meta.

But by now I‘m almost as fed up with the other side, pretending that there is no problem, that X-Wing is in a healthy spot, that arcs matter after the alpha strike, that 2 A-Wings can somehow compete with an equally or even half as expensive Miranda or Nym.

I enjoy discussion, but here is not much to be had

2 minutes ago, the1hodgy said:

#TheLizardsNailedThePoint

Fixed because geckos are lizards

1 minute ago, Celestial Lizards said:

Fixed because geckos are lizards

*high fives in lizard*

1 minute ago, DampfGecko said:

*high fives in lizard*

1 hour ago, Stoneface said:

Define "downward spiral", please. I think the game still ranks #1. Attendance at the FLGS is still good and growing. The appearance of meta lists at the FLGS is relegated to a 12 year old so far.

I think part of what FTS is trying to get across is not what is said but how it's said. It's the difference between telling someone the tie they're wearing doesn't go with that shirt and saying that tie is stupid and implying that they are too for wearing it. The former is tact, the latter rudeness. Yes I understand that the anonymity of the internet almost calls out for that rudeness.

To paraphrase an old carpenter's axiom, "Think twice, type once". That thought might serve us well.

I don't have access to hard metrics to specifically define "a downward track" yet.

Even when they do come out for the Summer quarter (such as ICV2 ) I believe that if that X-Wing is surpassed it would be more due to WH40k 8th Ed. being ascendant than X-Wing being descendant. I've heard really good things about the new edition. In any case, my statement is based more on statements from players, here, in person, reddit, facebook, over podcasts, etc. If someone states, "the game isn't as fun as it used to be" you can't simply demand hard proof of an accurate fun measurement, but you can use their opinions as something to track and see if its trending.

There have been a lot of talk about attendance at tournaments and FLGS nights being down by other forum users; I haven't been tracking that personally, but anecdotally its something to keep in mind.

In any case, you can simply accept that they are in fact not having as much fun as they used to. Denying their experiences is quite rude in itself, even if you disagree with why they are finding the game less fun.

And like you mention, and I agree with, these forums could use a bit less rudeness. Unfortunately, the OP of this thread opened with an accusatory tone when implying that someone who has a complaint about the gamestate it is showing "entitlement". /shrug. That can often set the course of a thread.

the latest developer interview honestly added more negativity. Their answers for X-wings, how a lot of the standard combos were thought of as not powerful during design and then missed completely during playtesting. (Rac/Kylo for example not expected to be as dangerous as it is)...

They also stated that fun and casual gameplay comes first, then balance for tournaments. There were a lot of excuses, and I think they created a lot of their own problems. The development staff for mini games @ FFG is curretnly 8 people. 8 people for all the mini game products. Four of those are Star Wars. There are more competitive/organized play games than there are staff to dedicate to OP. It sounds like they are understaffed and have too many games splitting their attention.

This is also not the first time that they have hinted at potential X-Wing fix in the pipeline. They know it's bad, they know it needs attention, but they also state that they cannot talk about future products... which means what exactly?

They missed the boat for an X/Y pack with last years movie. Maybe for the next round of aces packs? Maybe they will do a soft reboot on the original trilogy ships by doing new versions of the original expansion that add new pilots/abilities?

7 minutes ago, kris40k said:

Unfortunately, the OP of this thread opened with an accusatory tone when implying that someone who has a complaint about the gamestate it is showing "entitlement".

Actually, if you'll look again you will notice there is no mention or talk about the gamestate in the OP at all . I don't reference rules discussion, feedback, meta-discussion, complaints about balance, anything like that at all. Only - and very specifically - negativity.

Now maybe you instantly correlate one with the other - but it definitely is possible to have a rules discussion without negativity.

4 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

Actually, if you'll look again you will notice there is no mention or talk about the gamestate in the OP at all . I don't reference rules discussion, feedback, meta-discussion, complaints about balance, anything like that at all. Only - and very specifically - negativity.

Now maybe you instantly correlate one with the other - but it definitely is possible to have a rules discussion without negativity.

That is true, your initial post lacked definition in its accusation of entitlement about a nebulous negative type.

2 hours ago, Favoritism Flight Games said:

It's less fun than it used to be.

I've been playing since wave 6 and for as long as I've been on the forum, the game has been getting 'less fun than it used to be'. First Fat Turrets, then TLTs, then Palp, then U-Boats, the x7 Defenders, then Attani Mindlink, now bombs.

Genuine question: has there ever bern a time when this game was getting more fun according to this forum?

4 minutes ago, LordBlades said:

Genuine question: has there ever bern a time when this game was getting more fun according to this forum?

I enjoyed the period directly after the Deadeye nerf. Pretty much through Wave 10 was alright, all 3 factions had good lists. Rebels were still a bit underpowered, but were still winning events, and had pilots in the top 10. Parattani and Commonwealth got a bit out of hand by Wave 10, and then the nerfageddon happened...

3 minutes ago, Favoritism Flight Games said:

I enjoyed the period directly after the Deadeye nerf. Pretty much through Wave 10 was alright, all 3 factions had good lists. Rebels were still a bit underpowered, but were still winning events, and had pilots in the top 10. Parattani and Commonwealth got a bit out of hand by Wave 10, and then the nerfageddon happened...

That wasn't his question. His question is has their ever been a point where the FORUMS thought the game was getting better, not you personally.

3 minutes ago, Favoritism Flight Games said:

I enjoyed the period directly after the Deadeye nerf. Pretty much through Wave 10 was alright, all 3 factions had good lists. Rebels were still a bit underpowered, but were still winning events, and had pilots in the top 10. Parattani and Commonwealth got a bit out of hand by Wave 10, and then the nerfageddon happened...

I can agree on that timeframe. Parattani was the most fun list I've played so far.

However, at that time, the forums were still full of people complaining about Defenders and Attani Mindlink killing the game.

1 minute ago, Timathius said:

That wasn't his question. His question is has their ever been a point where the FORUMS thought the game was getting better, not you personally.

Oh, the forums! GOD NO, this place is an unholy blight, even by 2017 internet standards. And that's why I love it here.

44 minutes ago, kris40k said:

That is true, your initial post lacked definition in its accusation of entitlement about a nebulous negative type.

So you decided to attribute your own? OK.

To clear things up:

Negativity (adjective) - lacking positive or constructive features, especially:

• Unpleasant, disagreeable
• Gloomy, pessimistic
• Unfavourable or detrimental
• Hostile or disparaging, malicious

Given that particular description, it should be pretty easy to work out the kid of comments I'm talking about.

1 minute ago, FTS Gecko said:

So you decided to attribute your own? OK.

Of course, that's how inference or intuition works. We read what you wrote, and if it was unclear (ie "What negativity is he talking about?") we come to our own conclusion ("Oh, he must have been talking about <assumption>").

5 hours ago, kris40k said:

I don't have access to hard metrics to specifically define "a downward track" yet.

Even when they do come out for the Summer quarter (such as ICV2 ) I believe that if that X-Wing is surpassed it would be more due to WH40k 8th Ed. being ascendant than X-Wing being descendant. I've heard really good things about the new edition. In any case, my statement is based more on statements from players, here, in person, reddit, facebook, over podcasts, etc. If someone states, "the game isn't as fun as it used to be" you can't simply demand hard proof of an accurate fun measurement, but you can use their opinions as something to track and see if its trending.

There have been a lot of talk about attendance at tournaments and FLGS nights being down by other forum users; I haven't been tracking that personally, but anecdotally its something to keep in mind.

In any case, you can simply accept that they are in fact not having as much fun as they used to. Denying their experiences is quite rude in itself, even if you disagree with why they are finding the game less fun.

And like you mention, and I agree with, these forums could use a bit less rudeness. Unfortunately, the OP of this thread opened with an accusatory tone when implying that someone who has a complaint about the gamestate it is showing "entitlement". /shrug. That can often set the course of a thread.

I wasn't denying their level of fun has dropped. Everyone's definition of fun is different as is their level of fun. Which brings me to the OP' s entitlement comment.

I think what he was getting at was this. You can't complain about the game, insult the designers then demand they make the game more fun for you. It' s like the kid on a rainy Saturday bemoaning the fact that there's "nothing to do". Yet there sits within arm's reach a game console, computer and tens of dollars worth of toys. Don't like playing vs DenNym? Then ask your opponent to play somethig else. But do it nicely. Want to stir up the casual night at the FLGS? Try a night of 65 point builds or an escalation tourney where every round is against a different player. Or a mirror match ace build. One player determines the pilot, ship and upgrades. The other player matches the build. One ship for each player. Use a 3' x 1-1/2' map. (Half size) There's an almost unlimited number of variations possible within the game. Limited only by your willingness to think out of the box. Remember, you can't be spoon fed fun. You need to take some responsibility for having fun.

If the game is so bad that it's causing the levels of frustration it seems to be from your posts, take a break. Shelve the game. Play something less aggravating. Dominoes, Solitaire or Marbles. Something so you can relax. Games are supposed to be fun and challenging. If you're not enjoying the game, quit. It's not worth the high blood pressure and aggravation.

Obviously the "you" in the above rant was the editorial you and not directed at Kris40k.