1 minute ago, NoShieldsAllGuts said:

Competitive play is, as usual, an afterthought. The whole interview smacked of "Smash 4 is not a fighting game."

But it’s weird because everything else seems to indicate they are treating it exactly like one. They just... might be not great at it..?

its like if Smash was being marketed as a competitive game, but ended up as, say, Brawl. So essentially the opposite of what happened with Melee.

The points I heard that explain quite a bit to me:

1 - playtesting doesn't catch a lot of the OP combos that are quickly figured out at the time of the preview article. ie: Nym was seen as a cancer from the day the preview came out. RAC/Kylo combo was seen as powerful, but they didn't think it would end up being abusive... seems like playtesting does not have the right people in place.

2 - too many games, too few people. 8 people working in the mini's game. this sounds like it has been expanded recently. So 8 people looking after 6 games (Dust/Runewars/IA/Legion/Xwing/Armada. essentially 5 as Dust is dead). I have no experience in game development, but it seems like they should have 12-14 people doing this.

2b - Less people in the Organized Play department than there are OP games. They are very understaffed

3 - They are often told what ships they are to develop.

4 - Casual play first, then competitive play

5 - They have no idea how to assign point costs and go based on "feel".

6 - The classic ships are admitted to be outdated, they are aware of it, they do know that we want them relevant again, but they cannot comment on future plans. reading between the lines: don't expect a fix anytime soon

7 - they want a live, vibrant game with a diverse meta competitively. But they seem to have issues designing for the meta due to lead time, and *** playtesting.

I'm glad the interview happened, I feel like I need to listen to it again and listen for what was not said. I'm a little disgruntled after listening to it as I feel they are a little out of touch and kind of confused, but I also think that comes from the "guidance" they are getting from "upstairs".

Overall, I still enjoy the game and will continue playing as long as there are people playing locally. I'm excited for the announced upcoming product and can't wait to see how it shakes stuff up. I am still hoping for an update to our classic fighters, and a resistance A-Wing!

Also, I felt that there was something weird about discounting math for playtesting then spending a good chunk of time focusing on the struggles of playtesting.

Okay, just so I can reassure myself I'm not just being Mr. Doom-and-Gloom ...

... that was not a reassuring interview for the future of X-Wing, right?

I listened, squinting for a glimmer of hope, ruthlessly mixing metaphors, and I came away from it more convinced than ever that the game is effectively dead for anybody that cares about firing arcs and maneuvering duels.

Thanks for doing this interview guys - it was an enlightening conversation but sooo frustrating

My main takeaway is that the development team doesn't have the resources (time, attention, knowledge/skill set, etc.) to really do their jobs properly. They are shooting from the hip constantly out of necessity since they lack those resources and it's starting to cascade and it doesn't seem that they are aware that it's happening?

1 minute ago, Jeff Wilder said:

Okay, just so I can reassure myself I'm not just being Mr. Doom-and-Gloom ...

... that was not a reassuring interview for the future of X-Wing, right?

I listened, squinting for a glimmer of hope, ruthlessly mixing metaphors, and I came away from it more convinced than ever that the game is effectively dead for anybody that cares about firing arcs and maneuvering duels.

Yeah, not a lot of hope for the future in that interview.

7 minutes ago, AlexW said:

Also, I felt that there was something weird about discounting math for playtesting then spending a good chunk of time focusing on the struggles of playtesting.

BUT GUYS MY JOB IS HARD.

11 minutes ago, AlexW said:

Also, I felt that there was something weird about discounting math for playtesting then spending a good chunk of time focusing on the struggles of playtesting.

My assumption of @MajorJuggler 's reaction around that time

3 minutes ago, Transmogrifier said:

Thanks for doing this interview guys - it was an enlightening conversation but sooo frustrating

My main takeaway is that the development team doesn't have the resources (time, attention, knowledge/skill set, etc.) to really do their jobs properly. They are shooting from the hip constantly out of necessity since they lack those resources and it's starting to cascade and it doesn't seem that they are aware that it's happening?

Yep. The JumpMaster was probably the worst offender here. They've tried every small nerf they could to fix that ship. First came the Deadeye nerf, and the change to R4 Agromechs, which didn't matter as people switched to Dengaroo and Parattani. Then came the Manaroo nerf, but people just switched to mindlinked Scouts. Now rumors abound that they'll be deploying the nuclear option to kill it for good, since none of those small nerfs addressed the fact that the chassis was simply too cheap for all of its bonuses to begin with.

Same goes for the Palp and x7 nerfs. Both were intended to bring balance to the game, but all that ended up happening was that they've almost completely pushed Imperials out of the competative meta.

12 minutes ago, AlexW said:

Also, I felt that there was something weird about discounting math for playtesting then spending a good chunk of time focusing on the struggles of playtesting.

I felt for Dr Bob @MajorJuggler at that exact moment.

You know some of these answers are coming and you have to balance being entertaining while also getting good information. You have an idea what they're going to say about the X-wing before you ask it.

Coincidentally this is why we didn't ask about the FAQ. They can't or wouldn't say anything. It also puts them in an awkward position. There wasn't any reason to waste the time when time is limited.

Are we just all agreed that FFG should fire Davy and crew and hire @MajorJuggler and let him make a new dev team and X-Wing 2.0? Cause that's what this thread is sounding like to me. Let Davy and the rest of Dawson's Creek go work on Destiny or Legion full time. They obviously are checked out when it comes to X-Wing.

2 minutes ago, Favoritism Flight Games said:

Are we just all agreed that FFG should fire Davy and crew and hire @MajorJuggler and let him make a new dev team and X-Wing 2.0? Cause that's what this thread is sounding like to me. Let Davy and the rest of Dawson's Creek go work on Destiny or Legion full time. They obviously are checked out when it comes to X-Wing.

No those guys actually have a lot of good ideas and are overall good at their jobs. They could do well with having a Dr. Bob like figure who helps them appropriately cost cards and ships though.

5 minutes ago, Kelvan said:

I felt for Dr Bob @MajorJuggler at that exact moment.

You know some of these answers are coming and you have to balance being entertaining while also getting good information. You have an idea what they're going to say about the X-wing before you ask it.

Coincidentally this is why we didn't ask about the FAQ. They can't or wouldn't say anything. It also puts them in an awkward position. There wasn't any reason to waste the time when time is limited.

Yeah, I understand. I felt like, unlike past interviews, you guys got your questions circumvented and stepped on by the interviewees a bit more. I just would have liked a more honest (or accurate?) answer that they don't have the resources or skills for that as they did for many other elements.

I am glad I listened to the interview. I do not have a lot of faith in the return of old ships. Not through a lack of trying, but a lack of on high letting them do it.

It also sounds like ffg is more concerned with them making more product rather than make sure the product is the best it can be.

Solution? Homebrew/opensource game formats are our future.

1 minute ago, ScummyRebel said:

I am glad I listened to the interview. I do not have a lot of faith in the return of old ships. Not through a lack of trying, but a lack of on high letting them do it.

It also sounds like ffg is more concerned with them making more product rather than make sure the product is the best it can be.

Solution? Homebrew/opensource game formats are our future.

When is Juggler's opensource game going to hit? God I can't wait for that.

4 minutes ago, Favoritism Flight Games said:

When is Juggler's opensource game going to hit? God I can't wait for that.

No idea, but there's lots you can do in the meantime to shake things up... But that may turn into another topic.

7 minutes ago, Favoritism Flight Games said:

When is Juggler's opensource game going to hit? God I can't wait for that.

This is definitely another topic, but for now I am taking the Blizzard approach of "when it's done". I have actually been debating opening it up from closed alpha to open beta, but without a squad builder ready to support it, building lists is a bear.

14 minutes ago, Kelvan said:

No those guys actually have a lot of good ideas and are overall good at their jobs. They could do well with having a Dr. Bob like figure who helps them appropriately cost cards and ships though.

I think this is the crux of the issue - designing a game like this requires a huge set of skills and 2-3 people aren't going to have that complete set. One of those skills is understanding the math underlying the game mechanics and obviously they don't have someone in-house who is doing that. I'm not saying "hire Bob Randall", but they certainly need to incorporate *someone* with that sort of knowledge base/skill set into their team, even if it's just a contract consultant or whatever. Math isn't going to magically solve all of the games problems, but having someone who thinks mathematically would really help round out the skill set of the development team and eliminate one of their major blind spots. .

3 minutes ago, Transmogrifier said:

I think this is the crux of the issue - designing a game like this requires a huge set of skills and 2-3 people aren't going to have that complete set. One of those skills is understanding the math underlying the game mechanics and obviously they don't have someone in-house who is doing that. I'm not saying "hire Bob Randall", but they certainly need to incorporate *someone* with that sort of knowledge base/skill set into their team, even if it's just a contract consultant or whatever. Math isn't going to magically solve all of the games problems, but having someone who thinks mathematically would really help round out the skill set of the development team and eliminate one of their major blind spots. .

I don't think they could hire Bob unless it was Bob's retirement job. He is DR. Bob now after all.

RE: alternate formats, I'll lead by example here. Some Vassal league guys and I took the second place winning idea from our Alt Format competition and fleshed out out. I give you version 0.3 of A-Wing Soccer (imagine: Rocket League and Blood Bowl had an X-Wing baby). We're currently playtesting on Vassal! If you'd like to contribute please shoot me your email and I'll invite you into our playtest channel.

37 minutes ago, MajorJuggler said:

This is definitely another topic, but for now I am taking the Blizzard approach of "when it's done". I have actually been debating opening it up from closed alpha to open beta, but without a squad builder ready to support it, building lists is a bear.

Maybe some crowd-sourced or podcast-sourced monies would help motivate the production of a squad builder app... just sayin!

58 minutes ago, kris40k said:

My assumption of @MajorJuggler 's reaction around that time

I can neither confirm nor deny the possibility of such a reaction...

51 minutes ago, Favoritism Flight Games said:

Are we just all agreed that FFG should fire Davy and crew and hire @MajorJuggler and let him make a new dev team and X-Wing 2.0? Cause that's what this thread is sounding like to me. Let Davy and the rest of Dawson's Creek go work on Destiny or Legion full time. They obviously are checked out when it comes to X-Wing.

47 minutes ago, Kelvan said:

No those guys actually have a lot of good ideas and are overall good at their jobs. They could do well with having a Dr. Bob like figure who helps them appropriately cost cards and ships though.

Game design comes down to 3 stages:

• Design
• Development
• Technical Balance

Initial game design is the initial architecture, building something from nothing at initial concept creation. I.e. Jay Little is the initial Game Designer of X-wing. "Game Designer" is an actual title within the industry.

Game Development comes later to flesh out the original concepts and develop future expansions. Frequently the game designer and game developer are two different people, and both work on the game before it launches. "Game Developer" is also an actual title within the game industry.

Technical Balance is pretty self-explanitory as an end-goal: polish all the details so they are competitivly balanced. However, how to achieve that end-goal is highly non-trivial and depends on the game archetype. "Technical Game Balance" is not a job title in the board game industry, but it is in the video games industry. The problem with board games is that designing it right the first time without being able to change it after the fact is hard. Combat miniature games lend themselves very strongly to a mathematical analysis, but nobody in the industry seems to really understand the underlying theory let alone how to implement a costing solution. And FFG's business approach backs them into a corner with design: unlike video games they can't easily change costs later, since they have printed cards for everything.

That's all a preface for saying that my contribution would be on the "Technical Balance Director" end. So you absolutely wouldn't want to get rid of Alex, Frank, and Max or anyone else at FFG, but they could certainly use some help on the back end. Unfortuantely the problem is two-fold: one, it sounds like they don't think that math can actually help them, and two, FFG spends as little money as possible on designer/developer salaries, and a 'Technical Balance Director' is going to cost them quite a bit more than a Game Developer or a Game Designer.

13 minutes ago, Kelvan said:

I don't think they could hire Bob unless it was Bob's retirement job. He is DR. Bob now after all.

Reminds me when CCP had an Economics PhD on staff to help develop and manage the economy for EVE Online. Its a good idea to reach out to experts.

They could use some software/data help as well. During the interview I asked them about using ML/neural networking to help automate some of the process, and their reaction was something on the lines of "That's dumb, we don't have the dev resources for that." But they were wrong: In the end building that sort of system is going to be on the order of 100-200 lines of Python code, what's missing isn't the software resources, what is missing is a good data set to train from. There are plenty of strong software devs in the X-Wing community that could write that neural network, its having a robust data set that is the missing ingredient. But without them asking for help from the experts, that will never happen, despite the fact that we are probably at least 1/2 the way there with the List Juggler data set.

@sozin For those of us who aren't coders, what exactly is machine learning/neural networking?