Most important point in the whole thing: the Gunboat doesn't have articulated wings

2 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Most important point in the whole thing: the Gunboat doesn't have articulated wings

I have been waiting to commiserate with someone who noticed this. We just became best, sad friends.

9 hours ago, Rakky Wistol said:

Eek. Mixed bag on preview of the episode. Hope I find a nugget or two of hope but I fear it’s only going to confirm my suspicions.

As a fellow OG X-wing player this might hurt a bit.

17 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

There's a missile boat title in the Gunboat, so yeah, it's not getting a ship of its own.

?? You mean the OS-1 title? That's basically XG-1 for torps and missiles but we don't know the limit?

8 minutes ago, Kelvan said:

Boy this hits me in the heart. My favorite lists are 5+ ships at low PS. That game play is more or less gone unless you count Triple Scout, which may be out the door if they nerf it. Even then it was less fun than a tie swarm or 2A3B back in the day.

I've been doing really well with 3 Cartel Marauder Kihraxz and 2 Mangler Cannon Cartel Spacer Scyks of late, so I don't think it's dead as a list archetype quite yet. (And that's all pre Guns for Hire!)

Biggs+Low+Rex+Jess was never tested? Wow. It won a store championship (multiple I think) the first week it was out.

9 minutes ago, AlexW said:

Biggs+Low+Rex+Jess was never tested? Wow. It won a store championship (multiple I think) the first week it was out.

Including being played by a playtester, I believe.

2 minutes ago, AlexW said:

Biggs+Low+Rex+Jess was never tested? Wow. It won a store championship (multiple I think) the first week it was out.

It was a natural evolution of the Biggs-Rex-Jess-Braylen list, which I think explains its sudden success on release of the Auzituck. That list likely did not exist while Low was being playtested (although I could be wrong, I dont know the actual timelines), so it doesn't surprise me that no one tried this particular combination. Especially given the fact that the list was described as "Rebel Jank" when it first appeared and seemed to surprise people with its effectiveness at Worlds.

Not that it excuses anything, the combo is powerful and someone would've hit on it anyway. But it's interesting to see how the meta is shaped by whatever came immediately before.

so who's going to start a HotAC thread so we can get it to 300 pages and get official cards for it?

51 minutes ago, Jarval said:

I've been doing really well with 3 Cartel Marauder Kihraxz and 2 Mangler Cannon Cartel Spacer Scyks of late, so I don't think it's dead as a list archetype quite yet. (And that's all pre Guns for Hire!)

Will Barnickle, the Scum and Villainy designated driver, has been hitting me up on 4 Starviper/Sunny Bounder.

28 minutes ago, WAC47 said:

It was a natural evolution of the Biggs-Rex-Jess-Braylen list, which I think explains its sudden success on release of the Auzituck. That list likely did not exist while Low was being playtested (although I could be wrong, I dont know the actual timelines), so it doesn't surprise me that no one tried this particular combination. Especially given the fact that the list was described as "Rebel Jank" when it first appeared and seemed to surprise people with its effectiveness at Worlds.

Not that it excuses anything, the combo is powerful and someone would've hit on it anyway. But it's interesting to see how the meta is shaped by whatever came immediately before.

I totally get the evolution and realize that there are reasons that this exact version wasn't tested. However, I'm surprised they didn't at least put the combination of Biggs+Low+Rex together as Rex probably wasn't out yet either and would have been important to test those interactions. (And adding in Jess as the 4th ship isn't much of a leap once you fill out the points but it didn't need to be her, of course).

32 minutes ago, AngryAlbatross said:

so who's going to start a HotAC thread so we can get it to 300 pages and get official cards for it?

There is one and it’s got a good start. Needs to be located and excavated though...

25 minutes ago, AlexW said:

I totally get the evolution and realize that there are reasons that this exact version wasn't tested. However, I'm surprised they didn't at least put the combination of Biggs+Low+Rex together as Rex probably wasn't out yet either and would have been important to test those interactions. (And adding in Jess as the 4th ship isn't much of a leap once you fill out the points but it didn't need to be her, of course).

Funniest thing about their constant play-testing defense of why broken combinations get through: when they are play-testing new potential ship designs, everything is out, even ships that haven't been manufactured yet.

35 minutes ago, Kelvan said:

Will Barnickle, the Scum and Villainy designated driver, has been hitting me up on 4 Starviper/Sunny Bounder.

That sounds deeply awesome. I know what I'll be breaking out when Guns for Hire makes it to the UK!

2 hours ago, clanofwolves said:

Oh, and is it just me or did it seem that they had given up on the idea of fixing older ships? I mean, they overtly stated that 'they're not at all worried about TIE fighters or swarms being a thing' and retorted to harpoon missile inquiries with, 'as far as harpoon missiles being a real issue for Swarms, who cares, they're not played anyway.'

That was a tough pill to swallow if you love most the classic core ships: TIEs, A-Wings, X-Wings, etc.

I may be remembering poorly, but I could have sworn Alex or Frank saying that they never want to get to a point where a Tie swarm is not a viable option. Well...

17 hours ago, clanofwolves said:

I think my big take-away is their view of timing. Yes, they design "two waves out" and playtest a game that "no one will ever play" but that's just what it has to be. However, then, when they have control over timing (seeing what is bending the game in real time), they delay, hoping "it'll work out with new releases" but when "everyone is yelling for a Palp nerf" they wait and then finally "errata Palp" and then wonder why people "cry to have him un-nerfed" and say that makes them "hesitate" on erratas even more. Hey guys, when it's TIMING, it's timing, when the game is in the real world, analyses quickly (a month or two) and then freaking act. They errata things when their power lever has been dwindling for months, not when it's at the top for months. That's frustrating....and hard to swallow as a customer.

Amen!

11 hours ago, Azrapse said:

Wasn't it Max who said "If you people are going to make another 300 pages thread, don't make it about the Skipray Blastboat, make it about alternate play modes."? I might have put the wrong face on that voice.

It sounded to me like "We want to make alternate play modes, but the suits don't see enough interest for that in the forums. Now, if you made some noise about it..."

ARE YOU KIDDING ME??????

10 hours ago, MacchuWA said:

As far ad the actual interview goes... Yeah, uh... Not great*. Not terrible, but my mind has hardly been put at ease that they actually recognise what the fundamental issue are around Nym, Lowrrick/Biggs/Rex, Kylo, even Jumpmasters, and that they should have been identified at the design stage.

I found the way Frank and Max responded to Major Juggler particularly telling when they were talking about a theoretical formula for a PS9 arc dodger. They were talking about how a lot of the balance and costing stuff is based on experience, and how something feels on the table. Which would be fine, except time and time again, the number of overpowered ships, cards and combinations that have slipped through and needed to be errata'd (and not to forget the number of overpriced or underpowered cards on the other end of the spectrum; we talk about it far less, but an underpowered card misses the mark just as much as an overpowered card) should have demonstrated that experience actually doesn't help much. Experience with the Phantom should have prevented Advanced Sensors Nym. Experience with Advanced SLAM Miranda and X7 defenders should have prevented the bomblet Genius interaction. I'm sure time is a factor in some of these, but it remains clear that what they're doing now could easily to improve, yet they don't seem to agree, which is disappointing.

And experience with Biggs should have prevented Lowrisk... That one was soo easy to spot. They even talked about the interaction in their preview article!

1 minute ago, Jo Jo said:

I may be remembering poorly, but I could have sworn Alex or Frank saying that they never want to get to a point where a Tie swarm is not a viable option. Well...

I have the same memory, be it real or we both simply imagined it.

I went back and listened to the exchange that was started with inquiries about the Harpoon Missile design in order to insure that my understanding the designers don't really care much about the core ships anymore. I wanted to "quote" parts of the exchange rather than, off-hand kinda 'quote' it:

"I have to ask about Harpoon Missile because a lot of people...say this is, pretty much, the final nail in the coffin of TIE Swarm" -Blair

As far as Harpoon Missile goes, "the Art I actually commissioned back with Imperial Veterans. So I was excited about the concept of a missile that just like get stuck in you and blows up later." -Frank

"Assault missile wasn't really doing anything. It's not like that was really killing TIE Swarm. So it didn't feel like this was, beating up this archetype." -Frank

"...but, if you knew it now, if you knew that TIE Swarms would effectively be competitively dead, would you rethink this card?" -Lyle

"...well, if they are already competitively dead, putting a card that super kills them, doesn't matter?" -Frank

9 hours ago, gadwag said:

Leaving aside the meta and ship design discussion (on which I have similar feelings to most of the commenters here), I was pleased to see that alternate play formats are very much on the radar, even if they aren't the priority like ships are. I for one am very keen to boot up a 300-page alternate gametype thread. What do you folks think?

I started this:

and this:

They have less than 30 replies between them, so feel free to expand.

3 hours ago, Stoneface said:

I really don't think Biggs is a problem if the "fixes" don't buff defensive abilities. Reduction in points, and some post maneuver repositioning ability would be good for the X-wing but would have little effect on Biggs.

reduction in points would allow him to have even stronger partners. The current builds that are OP with him would be even stronger. Not a good idea.

A few key things I picked up-

- they repeatedly mentioned either directly or indirectly their split focus on other games. I think it suffices to say their focus on xwing is, at the very least, scattered. Which when you consider a team of 3 is small as is... that’s... worrisome.

- I was hoping to hear what their baseline was for balance. Didn’t catch it if they did. If they don’t have one, (and it seems they don’t), I think that is a big issue. They talked about how people are asking for the Palp nerf to be taken back and how when the game moves forward it means some things that were broken suddenly aren’t anymore. That should never be the case if you have a power curve you are asking yourself to stick to from wave 1 through wave infinity. As is, they seem to be moving the game along with their unintentional power creep, meaning the generic front arc ships of yester-year are going to have a struggle to make their way back into the game.

- Max’s comments on the deadman switch list and ionization as a mechanic a little later was one of the high points in the discussion (although his “I don’t have many design principles I stick to” was disheartening). It gives me hope they see the fundamental flaw with autodamage and how, much like a world where ionization or deadman switch was dominant, it takes away key aspects of the game away from the player that, when too powerful, overwhelms the play experience in a negative way.

- Another positive- they did give some hints to shaking up or refining the design and playtesting process. It sure seems like they need it.

- their design philosophy seems to be “this sounds fun! Let’s make it and let the playtesters sort out of its balanced”. Did anyone else feel that way when Frank was discussing harpoon missiles?

56 minutes ago, clanofwolves said:

I have the same memory, be it real or we both simply imagined it.

I went back and listened to the exchange that was started with inquiries about the Harpoon Missile design in order to insure that my understanding the designers don't really care much about the core ships anymore. I wanted to "quote" parts of the exchange rather than, off-hand kinda 'quote' it:

"I have to ask about Harpoon Missile because a lot of people...say this is, pretty much, the final nail in the coffin of TIE Swarm" -Blair

As far as Harpoon Missile goes, "the Art I actually commissioned back with Imperial Veterans. So I was excited about the concept of a missile that just like get stuck in you and blows up later." -Frank

"Assault missile wasn't really doing anything. It's not like that was really killing TIE Swarm. So it didn't feel like this was, beating up this archetype." -Frank

"...but, if you knew it now, if you knew that TIE Swarms would effectively be competitively dead, would you rethink this card?" -Lyle

"...well, if they are already competitively dead, putting a card that super kills them, doesn't matter?" -Frank

Yeah, this exchange was very saddening. It appears that Frank and/or the rest of the team will add content to the game that they want to have added without concern to its potential impact to ships or cards that already are in need of help to be competitive. While the developers could look at the situation and see that the TIE Swarm was in need of something to bring them back to competitive status, instead, Frank said, "Nah, I want a Fang Missile" and twisted the knife.

Competitive play is, as usual, an afterthought. The whole interview smacked of "Smash 4 is not a fighting game."

2 hours ago, clanofwolves said:

Funniest thing about their constant play-testing defense of why broken combinations get through: when they are play-testing new potential ship designs, everything is out, even ships that haven't been manufactured yet.

But that's part of the issue. They also note that when they're playtesting, those tests also include that would likely counter the current broken combos, but those upgrades are still 1-2 waves away from reaching the player base.