If you take the reasonable assumption that their job is to sell ships then I think a lot of the picture falls into place. They'll devote their limited time to working on the new ships they're being instructed to sell, not fixing the old ships because if the old ships are just as good as the new ships you'll sell less new ships. Player churn is good because if an old player drops out of the game but a new player comes in they'll sell more ships to the new player buying up back-catalogue than to an old player who only needs a few of the new ships. If the competitive metagame becomes enough of an issue that it starts to affect attendance, and thus sales through implication, then they may need to make changes but otherwise their focus will be on making new ships to sell over errata for existing product.

44 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

That's fair enough. The impression that I got wasn't so much "there's not much that we can do about it" so much as "there's not much we can say about it, at least right now". The only line which stuck me otherwise rally was the one (paraphrasing) "If no-one's taking swarms, is releasing a ship that's good against swarms a big deal?". I'm still inclined to give FFG the benefit of the doubt on this, and the "make your own formats up" part seemed more related to questions about alternate game modes than balance.

I hear you but I get the impression that people want alternate game modes because of the imbalance at a competitive level in 100/6 so are kind of intertwined. Obviously they have NDA's etc. and are limited on what they can and can't say so there's going to be a certain amount of interpretation left to the listener, which is why I enjoy these threads. Always nice to see how others have interpreted things.

44 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

Well... that's always going to be the case regardless. I literally have four KR cases of X-Wing ships, one for each faction and a half-size which is my carry case for events. Playing competitively, you're only going to be fielding one faction, 100 points at a time... so the rest of your models will be sat unused. Even playing Epic, you're going to be playing one faction, so 2/3rds of your models will be sat unused. And that's without going into favourite ships, pilots and builds... balance questions aside, the majority of your collection will be idle.

I agree it would be good to have an extra incentive to take some of your older models back out and put them on the tabletop in a competitive environment, but it will always be at the expense of something else in your collection. It's the nature of the beast.

I understand this and maybe "I don't word gud" when it comes to expressing my thoughts but I mean I'd rather the whole of my collection be on a rough level of the same viability so I can play them in a standard format competitive event should I wish to without being hamstrung against the new hotness. Does that make sense? Personally I do play epic and HotAC, I go to a lot of homebrew alternative format events locally and I do try to get the use out of my whole collection. Also; this...

33 minutes ago, AlexW said:

I think people are smart enough to realize this, but that's not really what they're asking for, nor what has been said in the past. Developers have generally said that they are generally trying to keep ships from previous waves relevant and balanced.

You may well be right @FTS Gecko; it may just be they CAN'T talk about it now rather than anything else. For example; from last years (or maybe earlier? it all blends into one long day in my old age) S&V interview with Alex Davey the only thing he was hinting at that we haven't yet seen is the X-Wing and E-Wing buffs soooo... maybe it's about to drop! Maybe he got a slap on the wrists for hinting at the C-Roc, GFH and Imp Vets so is being super cautious. Maybe they're devoting more testing time to it after the FAQ leak and change to the X/7 tittle. I guess all we can do is speculate but it is fun to do so

24 minutes ago, Smutpedler said:

S&V interview with Alex Davey the only thing he was hinting at that we haven't yet seen is the X-Wing and E-Wing buffs soooo... maybe it's about to drop! Maybe he got a slap on the wrists for hinting at the C-Roc, GFH and Imp Vets so is being super cautious. Maybe they're devoting more testing time to it after the FAQ leak and change to the X/7 tittle. I guess all we can do is speculate but it is fun to do so

Yeah, timing's the thing. Guns For Hire is about to drop - next week, by the sounds of it, bringing much needed buffs to the Kihraxz and StarViper. It's not an incredible stretch of the imagination to think that once this "Aces" pack hits the shelves, we may see another one revealed shortly afterwards (SWX71?). But obviously Alex and the Gang can't discuss unnannounced products (they can barely cover what's in announced products - the S&V guys were trying to get them to elaborate more on the Resistance Bomber and the Star Wing.. nothing doing).

The same goes for unannounced balances fixes/FAQ rulings etc. As Edrio said above, if you understand that at least part of their job is to peddle plastic crack sell ships, they're currently selling a lot of the meta products - the Scurrg, the JM5K, the K-Wing's just been reprinted... so they can hardly come out and say "yeah, we've got a planned nerf to the Scurrg/JM5K/Bombs that'll bring swarms back into contention, stay tuned!" however much they may want to.

If Rebels get another Aces pack, what will the next Imp one be? My money's on the Punisher and Lambda, but I'd rather see Decimator and Phantom.

5 minutes ago, Celestial Lizards said:

If Rebels get another Aces pack, what will the next Imp one be? My money's on the Punisher and Lambda, but I'd rather see Decimator and Phantom.

I want to see Ywing + Uwing Scarif pack with cards for a t65 as well. There's just been so many t65 models already...

For imps, I don't think the decimator is in a bad place... The punisher should be in an imperial ace pack since it's been a laugh the entire time. Phantom is probably fine as is, though maybe there could be a mechanic added to them for flavor. If the Imps get a 2nd lambda, since they started "multiple factions in a box" they should at least include a rebel pilot or two and a "shuttle Tyderium" title :-P

20 minutes ago, ScummyRebel said:

I want to see Ywing + Uwing Scarif pack with cards for a t65 as well. There's just been so many t65 models already...

Same. I could see them making it an X-Wing instead of a Y-Wing for the Partisans (though I myself am rather divided it they would go in the Rebel faction or the Scum). But cards and cardboard for all three ships is what I really want. Give me K2!

20 minutes ago, ScummyRebel said:

For imps, I don't think the decimator is in a bad place... The punisher should be in an imperial ace pack since it's been a laugh the entire time. Phantom is probably fine as is, though maybe there could be a mechanic added to them for flavor. If the Imps get a 2nd lambda, since they started "multiple factions in a box" they should at least include a rebel pilot or two and a "shuttle Tyderium" title :-P

Yeah, the Punisher is practically a shoe in. It is so far behind its heavy Bomber brethren, it's not even funny.

I very much doubt the Deci will be in it. It's a prominent piece of the few Imperial lists that are close to viable. There are plenty of other ships that don't even reach that high.

A Phantom inclusion might be interesting, but I think should be geared towards making the ship fly differently than the standard "cloak and run" play style.

The lambda could work, but I'm just so dang tired of shuttles at this point.

Any Empire ace pack should have a Punisher and a buff to Tie Fighters/Interceptors. They are the only thing not seeing play right now.

Bombers have a place now with cruise missiles (or unguided rockets).
The Phantom is still awesome (when paired with Kylo).
RAC Decimator is everywhere, definitely needs no buff.
Tie S/F's are great.
Derpfenders are still great (both Tie D and X/7).
Vader is back due to ps 11 cruise.
Shuttle and Upsilon will always be good because of Palp or Hux.
Omega Leader is still the best (other than Nym/Randa).

Empire has some good stuff, its just not the stuff we all want to fly for Empire.....

9 minutes ago, AngryAlbatross said:

Empire has some good stuff, its just not the stuff we all want to fly for Empire.....

I want TIE Reaper, Chiss Clawcraft, Eta-2/ARC/V-Wing, and of course the GUNBOAT.

1 hour ago, Celestial Lizards said:

If Rebels get another Aces pack, what will the next Imp one be? My money's on the Punisher...

55 minutes ago, ScummyRebel said:

The Punisher should be in an imperial ace pack since it's been a laugh the entire time.

27 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

Yeah, the Punisher is practically a shoe in. It is so far behind its heavy Bomber brethren, it's not even funny.

7 minutes ago, AngryAlbatross said:

Any Empire ace pack should have a Punisher ...

There seems to be a somewhat common thread here? Heck, even FFG has to see the issue with that Expansion failure, especially since they currently seem to be in love with bombs and ordinance.

14 minutes ago, clanofwolves said:

There seems to be a somewhat common thread here? Heck, even FFG has to see the issue with that Expansion failure, especially since they currently seem to be in love with bombs and ordinance.

Trajectory. Simulator.

Just now, FTS Gecko said:

Trajectory. Simulator.

Black 8 Sqd Pilot-UR-BG-TS-LWF

I want to be on the record that I appreciate the Devs for coming on the podcast. They've been so kind with their time with us over the years. I also want to say for the most part they do a great job and are passionate about the game. I just think they need more help.

Just now, Kelvan said:

I want to be on the record that I appreciate the Devs for coming on the podcast. They've been so kind with their time with us over the years. I also want to say for the most part they do a great job and are passionate about the game. I just think they need more help.

+1

3 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

Trajectory. Simulator.

Possibly, though still a big enough question mark that I still feel the Punisher is still a prime candidate for an aces pack.

I think the Trajectory Simulator Cutlass is at least playable, it may even be on a Deathfire level.

I'm also in the "buff punisher" camp, and I want the fix to involve action economy. It's got a boost action, and no actions to use it with.

1 minute ago, Rakaydos said:

I'm also in the "buff punisher" camp, and I want the fix to involve action economy. It's got a boost action, and no actions to use it with.

I'm trying to build an Arc Dodger Deathrain, because with BG he basically gets an AS barrel roll, and then a boost. It's worth checking out.

1 hour ago, FTS Gecko said:

Trajectory. Simulator.

But isn't this modification just like every other bomber buff that have been included in great Rebel and Scum Expansions that arguably grant a boost the Punisher, but boost the better Rebel and Scum platforms just as much and therefore keeps the separation between the Punisher and its counterparts the same? If so, considering such upgrades that are open to all bombers as a buff to the Punisher is sheer folly.

1 hour ago, Celestial Lizards said:

I'm trying to build an Arc Dodger Deathrain, because with BG he basically gets an AS barrel roll, and then a boost. It's worth checking out.

He's fun but he's 34 to 36 points for a ship that can be super squirrelly... at PS6.

And drop infinite bombs in a ludicrous array of places... at PS6.

I'm starting to wonder if a system that does what Enhanced Scopes was rumoured to be intended to do but dual cards weren't around yet... is what he needs - I understand from an interview or a podcast or something that the initial intent was for it to let you either move at 0 shoot at 12, or the opposite, but they couldn't fit it on one card at the time.

DR would adore 'move at 12, shoot at 0'.

And then the Punisher needs a second system slot, too, because Advanced Sensors is what makes this Deathrain pop.

Please do a buff for the firespray first before the punisher (or do both together).

Imperial version is non existent. Scum makes some appearances, but is still lacking in appearances compared to most other large ships when looking at list juggler meta stats.

12 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

He's fun but he's 34 to 36 points for a ship that can be super squirrelly... at PS6.

And drop infinite bombs in a ludicrous array of places... at PS6.

I'm starting to wonder if a system that does what Enhanced Scopes was rumoured to be intended to do but dual cards weren't around yet... is what he needs - I understand from an interview or a podcast or something that the initial intent was for it to let you either move at 0 shoot at 12, or the opposite, but they couldn't fit it on one card at the time.

DR would adore 'move at 12, shoot at 0'.

And then the Punisher needs a second system slot, too, because Advanced Sensors is what makes this Deathrain pop.

I love ES, but AS just works.

1 hour ago, clanofwolves said:

But isn't this modification just like every other bomber buff that have been included in great Rebel and Scum Expansions that arguably grant a boost the Punisher, but boost the better Rebel and Scum platforms just as much and therefore keeps the separation between the Punisher and its counterparts the same? If so, considering such upgrades that are open to all bombers as a buff to the Punisher is sheer folly.

No. Not many bombers also have System slots.

1 hour ago, markcsoul said:

Please do a buff for the firespray first before the punisher (or do both together).

Imperial version is non existent. Scum makes some appearances, but is still lacking in appearances compared to most other large ships when looking at list juggler meta stats.

What do you think, a general fix by way of title or mod, then some Imp only tricks to make up for the missing Illicit slot?

1 hour ago, clanofwolves said:

But isn't this modification just like every other bomber buff that have been included in great Rebel and Scum Expansions that arguably grant a boost the Punisher, but boost the better Rebel and Scum platforms just as much and therefore keeps the separation between the Punisher and its counterparts the same? If so, considering such upgrades that are open to all bombers as a buff to the Punisher is sheer folly.

That's a weird thing to say. Does TLT not improve Y-Wings because it's better on the Scurrg? Can FCS not improve the performance of B-Wings because Corran Horn gets more mileage from it? Lightweight Frame is amazing on the Special Forces TIE - does that mean it can't also be used to buff the Striker, Bomber or Punisher?

Of course not. The only upgrade card that can be considered buffs to specific ships only are titles.

Trajectory Simulator - if it does what we think it does - it going to be a very effective new tool, and the only way you'll currently be able to use it in the Imperial faction will be on a Punisher. Meaning the Punisher will have a unique and potentially very useful role. I'd definitely consider that to be a buff.

18 hours ago, Kdubb said:

In short- they would rather design around their errors and give us a poorer product than attack those errors directly.

Well, welcome to the knowledge party!

Seriously, I've been telling y'all this -- almost verbatim -- for a long time. A really, really, long time. (The first time I became certain of it, and started pointing it out, was their absolute refusal to fix Engine Upgrade on Large ships. That was literally years ago.)