18 minutes ago, Zesu Shadaban said:

Please, it has nothing to do with grammar. The rules reference even explains that cards discarded simultaneously are physically discarded one at a time in the order chosen by the player discarding. Simultaneous is a game mechanics reference (albeit one that isn't clearly defined). From the examples of simultaneous actions though, it seems pretty clear the point is that for timing and triggering, certain actions are considered simultaneous so only a single triggering condition occurs.

@Zesu Shadaban

I'm not sure of where you stand on this position. Can you discard more than down to 4 or not.

also the RR still says nothing about "one at a time" anywhere. The rule you used was:

"If multiple cards are discarded simultaneously, the owner of the cards chooses the order in which those cards are placed in the discard pile."

And as that rule does reference cards being discarded "simultaneously", I think it is safe to say that a person would have the right to discard as many cards as they wished as long as it was at least down to 4 (and potentially to zero).

52 minutes ago, kraken78 said:

@Zesu Shadaban

I'm not sure of where you stand on this position. Can you discard more than down to 4 or not.

also the RR still says nothing about "one at a time" anywhere. The rule you used was:

"If multiple cards are discarded simultaneously, the owner of the cards chooses the order in which those cards are placed in the discard pile."

And as that rule does reference cards being discarded "simultaneously", I think it is safe to say that a person would have the right to discard as many cards as they wished as long as it was at least down to 4 (and potentially to zero).

Sorry, should have clarified there, I was responding back to Inquisitor's response to me earlier. My phone is awful for submitting rules queries, but when I get home later I will just go ahead and submit one to confirm whether:

If 2 or more cards are discarded due to the same action or effect (or however it's worded for the Draw entry in the RR), are those cards considered discarded simultaneously?

When a player discards cards as a result of Restoration of Balance, are they allowed to discard to fewer than 4 cards?

My personal inclination is that the answer to both should be yes, although it's not explicitly stated in the RR which has apparently left room for alternate interpretations. And I'll gladly go on record now to say if the official response to either is wrong, then I misunderstood the mechanic and/or ability.

Just watched this exact thing happen. Because you can't force them to discard past 4 cards Restoration of Balance can't even trigger because the game state wont change.

So I meant to send this yesterday, but was distracted with other things. I submitted a Rules Query, I will follow up once I receive a response. Here are the questions I posed.

A couple of questions if you please to clarify some points regarding discard effects.

In the Rules Reference entry for "Drawing Cards" (pg. 6) it states "When a player draws 2 or more cards as the result of a single ability or game step, those cards are drawn simultaneously." However, there does not seem to be any similar clarification for discarding cards. The entry "Discard Piles" (pg. 6) includes the point, "If multiple cards are discarded simultaneously, the owner of the cards chooses the order in which those cards are placed in the discard pile." The question here is, what constitutes "simultaneous" discard of multiple cards? Would it be the same as for drawing cards? (e.g. "When a played discards 2 or more cards as the result of a single ability or game step, those cards are discarded simultaneously.")

Follow-up to the above. In the case of the card Restoration of Balance (Dragon Clan province) the ability reads, "reaction: after this province is revealed - your opponent chooses and discards cards from his or her hand until that player has 4 or fewer cards in hand." Are the cards your opponent discards considered discarded simultaneously? Also, since the effect states they discard "until that player has 4 or fewer cards in hand" does this mean your opponent can choose to discard to fewer than 4 cards? Or are they required to stop discarding when their hand reaches 4 cards?

Quote

When Restoration of Balance makes a player discard cards from hand, does that player discard cards one by one, *until* he has 4 or fewer cards in hand? Or does the player choose a number of cards, and discad them all at once? This would be relevant if you ever release a card similar to AGOT's Cersei Lannister (LoCR) ("Reaction: After 1 or more cards are discarded from an opponent's hand..."). Also, if that player has e.g. 5 cards in play, can they choose and discard 2 cards? Down to 3 cards, so that they technically have "4 or fewer cards in hand" left.

The cards should be discarded all at once. They cannot overdiscard — they choose until they are down to the specified number.

[Nate French, 20.10.2017]

8 minutes ago, mplain said:

The cards should be discarded all at once. They cannot overdiscard — they choose until they are down to the specified number.

[Nate French, 20.10.2017]

Thanks for the info. Not sure why "or fewer" is part of the card, but the dev has spoken.

Thanks for your legwork on this, mplain!

2 hours ago, mplain said:

The cards should be discarded all at once. They cannot overdiscard — they choose until they are down to the specified number.

[Nate French, 20.10.2017]

Cool, didn't have a chance to post the response I received but looks like you have it covered. As a bonus, here is this on simultaneous discarding: