Asking mostly out of pure curiosity. What kinds of holocrons have you included in your games? Have they been built similar to the party resource out of Force and Destiny? Have they been way more powerful? Have they been used as a major plot device, a MacGuffin for the party to chase after? Or just a really neat trinket that the party happens to have, that has assisted them in small ways?

In the first "season" of my campaign, there was a holocron introduced as a MacGuffin. The players, a hodge-podge of EotE, AoR, and F&D characters, were hired by a Devaronian crime lord to recover the holocron, and they spent the entire first season of the game chasing after it. At the end of the last game of season 1, the players finally caught up to the man in possession of said holocron, who turned out to be a Jedi Knight in hiding.

On Thursday, I started up season 2, after a four month break from the campaign. The players have agreed to help said discovered Jedi find his way back to the rest of his surviving Jedi friends (It's the group of younglings from the Clone Wars episodes where Ahsoka travels with them to Ilum). Speaking of Ilum, that was the party's next destination, as the surviving Jedi were supposed to be hiding out on one of the many temples there. What the party discovered instead, however, is that Ilum was under full Imperial occupation (as described in the Ahsoka novel). The party managed to fly in under the Empire's radar and stop by the temple where the surviving Jedi were supposed to be hiding, only to find it empty. Thankfully, this temple was the farthest from the Imperial mining operation on the planet, and hadn't been touched by the Empire yet. There they discovered a Jedi holographic training droid, and a holocron. This one, I'll be allowing the party to keep (While the other is most certainly finding its way into the hands of their Devaronian boss). I mostly treated it was a party resource holocron, with it letting the party treat Lightsaber and Discipline as career skills (for the few players who aren't already playing Jedi, in case they decide to take that route). However, on top of that, I'll be treating it as a sort of Mentor, giving a 5 XP discount to the base powers of Move, Sense, Enhance, and Influence.

The idea behind this particular temple was to basically have a Jedi boot camp. After re-reading Outbound Flight, I recalled Jorus C'baoth's constant suggestion to the Jedi Order to start taking on older pupils, pointing out that the Jedi Order's numbers were insufficient. He hailed Anakin as the perfect example of how well an older person becoming a Jedi could turn out. With all the strife in the years leading up to the Clone Wars, I like to imagine that the Jedi Order would have started to consider C'baoth's suggestion, even after he left for Unknown Space. This temple was an old one that was refurbished, with the intent of taking on the new older students here and giving them a crash course in Jedi training (Similar to Luke's training under Yoda). Hence why there was a training droid, programmed in all six forms of lightsaber combat that are currently in this game, and a holocron that gives you Lightsaber, Discipline, and a discount on Move, Sense, Enhance, and Influence, which I view as all the "standard" Jedi Force powers. However, the Clone Wars hit too soon, and the Jedi suddenly found that it couldn't spare any Jedi Masters to man this new temple, as they were all too preoccupied with the war.

My long time signature character (I've been playing since D6) has a "quest level" holocron. We haven't used it in the new campaign, yet, as we're still in the first session and getting the group together.

For me, as a Legends fan more than the films or recent shows, a holocron is an extraordinarily powerful device.

In legends the only people who can even craft Sith holocrons are significantly powerful people and usually to claim one is a perilous task fraught with frequent chances of death so only true champions can reach them.
The Jedi holocrons function in largely similar ways but usually aren't quite as in depth or as vain but I imagine any that haven't been destroyed or that are protected would be items with great mysteries held within. So I would say it depends which one you're aiming to claim.

With that said I DO NOT believe that the game grants you a good enough bonus from claiming one. It should be an obscenely rare thing to acquire and should have rewards to reflect.
The only time we discovered one in our game my character had to gain conflict to even open it and, despite being a DarkSide character, decided to give it away quite aware he wasn't ready for it.

I would have finishing the Holocron's secrets as some sort of exp bonus along with the gatekeeper acting as a super mentor with knowledge of a force power that he can give for free in exchange for adhereing to certain teachings.
A sith Lord may wish you to prove your understanding of the dark side as they see it.
A jedi master might require you to prove your acceptance of code.
I additionally would give the player the option to simply attempt to absorb the power with a very, very hard discipline check with a large conflict cost. Once done the holocron is entirely powerless meaning the mentor is gone but they gain the power at base and a exp boost variant on how powerful the person crafting it is.

There have been 2 Holocrons in the campaign I've been running. 1 could have gone either way being a jedi/sith holocron depending on the roll meant to find it the 2nd was a straight up sith holo made by Darth Ruin. The first is "quest level" as was mentioned by Tramp the Ruin one was a "reward" for player decisions.

I also subscribe to what I would consider a more Legends-style model of holocrons. Which my impression of holocrons from reading about them in Old Republic novels was that they really almost took the user to a virtual reality like space, where the user interacts with the gatekeeper. And that's how I implemented the one in my campaign. It's a Rakatan holocron made by an ancient blademaster. For it to be willing to teach the PCs anything, they had to challenge it in combat. It's a fine line they're walking though, because well of course the Rakata weren't exactly Lightside users... I don't want to talk too much about it as I don't know if any of my players hang out here, but it will give them a rank in Lightsaber, as well as possibly a Lightsaber Talent, and also possibly a Force Power. All depending on how they relate to it/the gatekeeper...

I had plans for a Legends style in the works for a session, I have used a more canon style basic communication holocron before. I far prefer the legends style.

I suppose you could simply add a different level or two of holocron?

Holocron RAW: does just that.

Holocron advanced: gives out something like a talent without need for skill tree progression.

Holocro ancient/legends: with some incredible super bonus depending on the scale you want to apply.

53 minutes ago, Luahk said:

I suppose you could simply add a different level or two of holocron?

Holocron RAW: does just that.

Holocron advanced: gives out something like a talent without need for skill tree progression.

Holocro ancient/legends: with some incredible super bonus depending on the scale you want to apply.

YEp, the "advanced" Holocrons, are what I call "Quest level", holocrons, and, aside from the standard 2 free career skills grant users a wide variety of other possible benefits, from free talents, to new Force powers, to potentially anything else the GM can imagine. Warde's Holocron is a great example of one such Holocron.

1 minute ago, Tramp Graphics said:

YEp, the "advanced" Holocrons, are what I call "Quest level", holocrons, and, aside from the standard 2 free career skills grant users a wide variety of other possible benefits, from free talents, to new Force powers, to potentially anything else the GM can imagine. Warde's Holocron is a great example of one such Holocron.

I will look it up.

Rules for creating "quest level" holocrons are on page 190 of the F&D core rules. Warde's Holocron can be found in Chronicles of the Gatekeeper . Another "quest LEvel Holocron can be found in Lessons From the Past , which starts on page 423 of the F&D core rules.

OK after seeing all these I am satisfied with them to an extent.

So a basic holocron would act as a mentor and apply reduction in exp to learn things.

Quest level does the same but gives the players access to a rare and or otherwise unobtainable skill.

A super duper Holocron would act as a Supreme mentor able to beset secrets of the force and shortcuts.

By this I mean learning saber throw absent having to progress through the tree.

And in one specific force tree have reduced exp the whole way down the tree rather than just at the top.

That, or something like that, is how I intend to do it.

5 hours ago, Luahk said:

OK after seeing all these I am satisfied with them to an extent.

So a basic holocron would act as a mentor and apply reduction in exp to learn things.

Quest level does the same but gives the players access to a rare and or otherwise unobtainable skill.

A super duper Holocron would act as a Supreme mentor able to beset secrets of the force and shortcuts.

By this I mean learning saber throw absent having to progress through the tree.

And in one specific force tree have reduced exp the whole way down the tree rather than just at the top.

That, or something like that, is how I intend to do it.

Wel, by RAW, there are only the two types of Holocron. Both give characters two career skills, but the Quest level one gives some other benefits, which can vary from holocron to holocron; whether that be access to Force powers, bonuses to crafting lightsabers (via plans), a free talent, etc.

I'll be honest, I have yet to include one of these things as I feel like I will end up hating it after a while when they bust it out like the magic 8 ball for every little question they have.

48 minutes ago, Archlyte said:

I'll be honest, I have yet to include one of these things as I feel like I will end up hating it after a while when they bust it out like the magic 8 ball for every little question they have.

That's why you establish it early on as possessing only limited knowledge and filtering it through a subjective viewpoint, just like any other character.

Maybe the personality encoded in it was that of a Jedi hardliner and it has strong opinions about what the PCs are doing and how they're training. Which it will state, in detail, before answering any questions.

Or it used to house several personalities, and over time they have become fractured and intermingled. It's now a hodgepodge of self-contradicting viewpoints and half-remember knowledge with dubious utility.

It's a dark side artifact, and it requires the sacrifice of a significant personal secret (not necessarily of the user!) before revealing any of the greater truths.

Maybe it was created by a Force-using villain from the campaign and it subtly manipulates the PCs into doing the villain's bidding, until the big reveal when the supposedly glitched-out visual matrix of the holocron stabilizes into a holo-image of the villain. Gasp! No! It was you all along!

There are lots of ways to give holocron use drawbacks.

6 hours ago, Archlyte said:

I'll be honest, I have yet to include one of these things as I feel like I will end up hating it after a while when they bust it out like the magic 8 ball for every little question they have.

5 hours ago, Stan Fresh said:

That's why you establish it early on as possessing only limited knowledge and filtering it through a subjective viewpoint, just like any other character.

Maybe the personality encoded in it was that of a Jedi hardliner and it has strong opinions about what the PCs are doing and how they're training. Which it will state, in detail, before answering any questions.

Or it used to house several personalities, and over time they have become fractured and intermingled. It's now a hodgepodge of self-contradicting viewpoints and half-remember knowledge with dubious utility.

It's a dark side artifact, and it requires the sacrifice of a significant personal secret (not necessarily of the user!) before revealing any of the greater truths.

Maybe it was created by a Force-using villain from the campaign and it subtly manipulates the PCs into doing the villain's bidding, until the big reveal when the supposedly glitched-out visual matrix of the holocron stabilizes into a holo-image of the villain. Gasp! No! It was you all along!

There are lots of ways to give holocron use drawbacks.

Yeah as I touched upon just because you open the Holocron does not mean you should have instant access to everything within it.

In legends it takes long periods of focused study to learn a new "level" of information and the user must show competent understanding of philosophy before it is unlocked.
So if this is.....errrmmm Darth Bane's holocron he might teach you the basis of the rule of two simply for being able to open the holocron but teaches you nothing further until you show/display understanding of the philosophy. He might pose a riddle that only someone who understands the mantra can answer correctly or ask that you give an example of why it makes sense.

Also, for me, to even have the ability to claim a holocron to the level above warde's, which is an adventure in itself to fully unlock, you'd have to be a single extremely powerful PC or a set of very strong PCs. To stick in the same example of Bane the four holocrons he interacts with the first is constantly degrading and exists in one of the purest places of darkside energy there is, the second is extremely hard to reach the temple itself and once he gets inside hard to find the holocron itself and then he relieves a lifelong affliction that would've killed a regular dude or even him if he was alone. The third and fourth effectively have small armies protecting them.

A holocron is a humongous deal and even once you get it does not mean it answers everything. I don't know what you're good at in real life..but lets say you're good at Gardening. It's limited to your specific expertise on gardening and whatever skills you are good at. Even then they don't receive all of your green fingered tips instantly. They have to prove to you, in the specific way you want it to be proved, that they are ready for how to use compost before you help them with the next stage.

I appreciate your take on this Luahk, and I think you have the right way to do this. What I find though, is that players will sit there and ask and ask and ask, they know the thing has info in it, and like hungry beavers they will gnaw at it continuously. In response I could just say, "hey it's a holocron but it's not going to be much use to you unless you spend years meditating on it." At which time they will try to sell it, use it to gain favor with some powerful NPC, or just put it in storage.

But assuming players with a good head on their shoulders I think your advice is excellent. They could probe the thing in a way that provides adventures and challenges. That sounds just plain awesome.

On ‎14‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 7:32 PM, Underachiever599 said:

Asking mostly out of pure curiosity. What kinds of holocrons have you included in your games?

MarcyVerse Holocrons are basically this:

.... so possibly best not to open them. (Especially if you've see the film 'Get Out'...)

I do, however, use the Holocron rules for things like helpful cactus friends With a side-order of Mentor, although she's not technically either...

34 minutes ago, Maelora said:

MarcyVerse Holocrons are basically this:

.... so possibly best not to open them. (Especially if you've see the film 'Get Out'...)

I have not seen that movie. However, based on what you've shared with me about how Holocrons in the MarcyVerse DO work... O_O ...

I am now frightened of innocent-looking gilded boxes. At least it's not also a jack-in-the-box, right? ...right? It's not, right?

4 minutes ago, Absol197 said:

At least it's not also a jack-in-the-box, right? ...right? It's not, right?

I can't promise that!

O_O

*...backs away slowly...*

1 hour ago, Maelora said:

MarcyVerse Holocrons are basically this:

.... so possibly best not to open them. (Especially if you've see the film 'Get Out'...)

I do, however, use the Holocron rules for things like helpful cactus friends With a side-order of Mentor, although she's not technically either...

Get Out ? It reminds me more of Hellraiser.

2 hours ago, Archlyte said:

I appreciate your take on this Luahk, and I think you have the right way to do this. What I find though, is that players will sit there and ask and ask and ask, they know the thing has info in it, and like hungry beavers they will gnaw at it continuously. In response I could just say, "hey it's a holocron but it's not going to be much use to you unless you spend years meditating on it." At which time they will try to sell it, use it to gain favor with some powerful NPC, or just put it in storage.

But assuming players with a good head on their shoulders I think your advice is excellent. They could probe the thing in a way that provides adventures and challenges. That sounds just plain awesome.

I think it's a difficult thing to GM properly and I am concerned about the one that we have in our group. So don't panic as I believe this is a subject worthy of debate.

With that... Useless advice aside.. Lemme try throw my two cents. If it's a sith holocron play the temptress. Encourage them with a taste but then demand more and more for anything further. It'll encourage them to want to try and also apply high cost to make sense.

In fairness the one we collected we did EXACTLY what you said. Gave it to a higher level for favor. It's close enough to one day be accessible but for now it's still very touchable. If that does occur I'd suggest to not fight it and perhaps have a change occur slowly in response to that higher level investigating the holocron.

Perhaps they gave it to a jedi knight who is teaching them. Intrigued to learn the secrets in order to defeat the Sith he is slowly becoming one. He begins to give out more and more twisted missions even perhaps gives into emotion upon occasion.

As I said before it's a super high level thing so if they do give it away that's probably appropriate behaviour for a lower level character.

Can we know more about the scenario?

57 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Get Out ? It reminds me more of Hellraiser.

It's... a little bit of both.

20 minutes ago, Maelora said:

It's... a little bit of both.

The Force keeps the Jedi High Masters alive for a long time, but not forever, and when they start to decay, the most evil and fearful of them - i.e. all of them - work some very old ritual magic to transfer their consciousness into a puzzle-box called a Holocron. Under the guise of a benevolent VI that has the personality of the late High Master, they groom a new apprentice in their own style, teaching them some of their powers and techniques. This, of course, softens them up for when they 'download' themselves into the bodies of their (mostly unsuspecting) new hosts. All of this is of course justified because the galaxy cannot possibly afford to lose their wisdom and power, which will naturally be used for the Greater Good.

As for the Hellraiser thing? Well, they tap into some pretty ancient, dark rituals to do this. And sometimes those rituals go horribly wrong...

In general, the MarcyVerse is a tad creepy and the Force is never fully understood. We don't have nice, friendly talkative Force Ghosts either. They're not all evil, but they are pretty creepy. Any brush with the supernatural is an unsettling experience in the MarcyVerse...

[spoiler/]

Well, I'm talking about the puzzle box itself. That's the exact same one they use in the Hellraiser movies.

At least holocrons in the Marcyverse are snazzy. Plum is my favorite color.

Though I am in the minority when I say that I think it looks better with silver than with gold.