I flew against A LOT of Scurrghs on last weekend's tournament, and what pisses me off about it is that it's too cheap for what it can do. The winner of the tournament flew four friggin Scurrghs, which even had useful upgrades. That's 40 hitpoints, of which you can shoot away 36 and score ZERO POINTS because the **** thing is mounted on a small base. I flew triple T70 on that tournament. If I flew four T70, I'd have the same amound of dice, a littlebit more survivability (two green instead of one) and half the HP. But worry not, because the Scurrgh, as a bomber shaped like a brick, has a better dial than my T70 X-Wings. I don't know who got the idea to give this ship basically everything and make it more cost-efficient than most other ships. It would be absolutely fine if it was a bit more expensive, or rather, if they reduced the point cost of some older ships.

the Scurrg doesn't have a better dial than a T70. It has red 3 turns. It gains a red 5 straight and loses the 4k and green 1 banks.

It's a way worse dial.

14 minutes ago, Stefan said:

I flew against A LOT of Scurrghs on last weekend's tournament, and what pisses me off about it is that it's too cheap for what it can do. The winner of the tournament flew four friggin Scurrghs, which even had useful upgrades. That's 40 hitpoints, of which you can shoot away 36 and score ZERO POINTS because the **** thing is mounted on a small base. I flew triple T70 on that tournament. If I flew four T70, I'd have the same amound of dice, a littlebit more survivability (two green instead of one) and half the HP. But worry not, because the Scurrgh, as a bomber shaped like a brick, has a better dial than my T70 X-Wings. I don't know who got the idea to give this ship basically everything and make it more cost-efficient than most other ships. It would be absolutely fine if it was a bit more expensive, or rather, if they reduced the point cost of some older ships.

I agree wholeheartedly. Like the JM5K, the Scurrg is tremendously underpriced for what you get.

16 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

the Scurrg doesn't have a better dial than a T70. It has red 3 turns. It gains a red 5 straight and loses the 4k and green 1 banks.

It's a way worse dial.

It has green 2s. I concede the point on the 4k, yes, but perhaps we can agree that it is a LOT more maneuverable than it needs to be for the role it has?

4 minutes ago, Stefan said:

It has green 2s. I concede the point on the 4k, yes, but perhaps we can agree that it is a LOT more maneuverable than it needs to be for the role it has?

The dials are identical except for:

3 turns: t70 white, scurrg red

1 banks: T70 green, scurrg white

2 banks: t70 white, scurrg green.

4k: t70 has, scurrg not

5 straight: scurrg has, t70 not.

So, not strictly worse, but definitely overall worse. It gains 2 red turns, and loses a turnaround, in exchange for a red 5 straight.

15 minutes ago, Stefan said:

It has green 2s. I concede the point on the 4k, yes, but perhaps we can agree that it is a LOT more maneuverable than it needs to be for the role it has?

No, because it really isn't that manueverable

OMG, 2-turns and 1 banks! Truly this is the scourge of xwing!!!!

You're looking at a problem of sensors and EU with a turret, certainly not of the almost substandard dial

Not to mention that the SCURRG itself is about as cost efficient as a B. The only reason they seem broken in that example is because they're stacked against the horribly overpriced nonPoe t70.

The t70 needs to have vanilla xwing costs just to meet the Bwing's standards

Yeah, the X-Wings are way too expensive. The comparison to its dial may have been misleading; it might be more appropriate to look at the Y-Wing and B-Wing and the difference in cost.

22 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

Not to mention that the SCURRG itself is about as cost efficient as a B. The only reason they seem broken in that example is because they're stacked against the horribly overpriced nonPoe t70.

Um...compare a Blue Squadron Pilot to a Karthakk Pirate:

For 2 points more the Scurrg gets: 2HP, missile slot, turret slot, 2 bomb slots, crew slot (or with title can get salvaged astro and system slot), and the scurrg has a much better dial. Sure the B has an extra torp, cannon, and +1PS, but that is, in no way, better than what you get with a Scurrg.

A B-Wing isn't anywhere NEAR as cost efficient as a Scurrg. Like not even close, in some other galaxy, far, far away.

1 hour ago, thespaceinvader said:

The goal is to fix the game as a whole, and fixing Nym is one tiny part of that. Miranda also needs fixing, as do half a dozen other major power imbalances.

If that is the goal, then I agree, although I find 'half a dozen' to be an understatement, if the goal is to fix the game, and not just reset it to one of it's previous states, such as 'acewing' or 'turretwing'.

Anyway,my replies were mainly targeted at addressing 'why does Nym have an EPT in the current game'.

1 hour ago, Favoritism Flight Games said:

What about just dropping Nym specifically down to PS 6? Keep the EPT for all the other non-Nym Scurrgs, but reign in his 'perfect knowledge' movement. That seems like it would bring him in line with your assertion that the Scurrg is garbage without an EPT.

A PS6 Nym with EPT suffers from.the same problems a PS8 Nym without EPT does: it's not good enough to be a meaningful alternative for the cost, compared to other options Scum and especially Rebels have.

I don't think the game is totally broken; the old ships are just left behind by power creep - which is a problem in EVERY such game - and the pricing on one or two ships is off. Nothing that couldn't be fixed.

May we take a moment and reflect on the Y-Wings and their lack of elite talented pilots.

God yes. But that is fixable with a "Heroes of Scarif" pack or some such quite easily.

52 minutes ago, Wiredin said:

May we take a moment and reflect on the Y-Wings and their lack of elite talented pilots.

Coming in hot.

Or, for a direct in-faction comparison, you can compare Ten Numb (B-Wing) to Nym:

Both are PS8, and they have the same action-bar and stat-line, except Nym has +2 Hull, a superior dial, and a substantially better upgrade bar, yet Nym costs 2pts less than Ten Numb . Umm, okay. Even if you took a naked Nym he's still a +2HP B-Wing with a better dial for less points. Umm, what?

Powercreep is real.

Ten has an ability that's actually usable without upgrades, though, which does help.

Not enough to make up for the discrepancy though.

1 hour ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

Or, for a direct in-faction comparison, you can compare Ten Numb (B-Wing) to Nym:

Both are PS8, and they have the same action-bar and stat-line, except Nym has +2 Hull, a superior dial, and a substantially better upgrade bar, yet Nym costs 2pts less than Ten Numb . Umm, okay. Even if you took a naked Nym he's still a +2HP B-Wing with a better dial for less points. Umm, what?

Powercreep is real.

Sigh, no

The Bwing and the Bomber initial expac both have the most abnormally overpriced named pilots in the game. Back when they were RELEASED nobody used them because TIE fighters (and everything really) diced them easily. The generics were decently priced

You can't power creep over something that is so far behind it can't even see the starting line

Not to say Nym specifically is or isnt, esp compared to Miranda and dengar, but we seriously need a better metric for comparison than the very bottom of the barrel

As for B v SCURRG, the price difference is enough to fit BBBBZ against four whatsits. The only thing that makes the SCURRG competitively relevant is the very specific combination of upgrade cards it gets to use. Even then, I see very little of anyone outside Nym and his buddies

I'm not sure what your argument is.

16 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

The only thing that makes the SCURRG competitively relevant is the very specific combination of upgrade cards it gets to use.

Indeed. Whilst there are about two or three variations of nym (mostly based on varying the turret and systems slot) that's pretty much it.

One of my favourite ships of recent years is the TIE striker because there's a genuine reason to want to take every pilot. Heck, there's even a good argument for not taking the zero-point auto-include title if you're not confident with the dial or want to fly in support of non-strikers.

Ships where the various pilots are badly balanced with one another (which frankly is most of them) are as annoying to me as other ships where the dominant pilot is out of balance with other ships.

My main dislike of nym isn't so much the EPT - because I get that 'heavy bomber' or not, expensive ships with zero elite options tend to die on a shelf unless they have an exceptionally powerful pilot ability (like Miranda Doni).

My dislike largely stems from him being PS8. I get the 'gameplay>narrative' argument, but there was no real gameplay reason he had to be PS8, especially since with an elite slot he could be PS6, 7, 8 or 9 as you desire, and there was a narrative reason he should be PS7; he should match Keyan Farlander, Maarek Stele and Dash Rendar as like all of them he is 'you' - the protagonist character of a star wars dogfighting game.

23 hours ago, LordBlades said:

Just look at all the other not-Nym Scurrgs flying around....oh wait

On a more serious note, an EPT-less Nym is a strictly worse Miranda (it can do nothing that Miranda doesn't do better). Therefore, as a Rebel, why would you take Nym over Miranda? Only reason would be if you're flying Miranda/Nym. But would Miranda/Nym still be good enough with Nym at PS8? I don't know.

As Scum, you mainly have Dengar/Nym. Personally, if Nym was restricted to PS8 I feel it becomes an inferior option to Dengar/Tel (or even Dengar/Fenn/Inaldra if Nym usage drops on Rebel side too).

EPTless Nym remains the same vs any pilot of PS7 or less (ps8 if initiative). Only thing it affects is his performance vs aces. I dont agree that Nym is worst than miranda when he does not have the ps advantage. His bombing flexibility is extremely high with advanced sensor+genius+pilot ability+boost+barrel roll. He also has a much better dial and he does not have to sacrifice an attack for an advanced SLAM. Rebel Nym is also better at controling the field with those unlimited bomblets that he can prevent from detonating. I actually have an easier time bombing with rebel Nym than i have with Miranda.

Also dont forget that Miranda is OP and a nerf to advanced SLAM is comming...

1 hour ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Indeed. Whilst there are about two or three variations of nym (mostly based on varying the turret and systems slot) that's pretty much it.

One of my favourite ships of recent years is the TIE striker because there's a genuine reason to want to take every pilot. Heck, there's even a good argument for not taking the zero-point auto-include title if you're not confident with the dial or want to fly in support of non-strikers.

Ships where the various pilots are badly balanced with one another (which frankly is most of them) are as annoying to me as other ships where the dominant pilot is out of balance with other ships.

My main dislike of nym isn't so much the EPT - because I get that 'heavy bomber' or not, expensive ships with zero elite options tend to die on a shelf unless they have an exceptionally powerful pilot ability (like Miranda Doni).

My dislike largely stems from him being PS8. I get the 'gameplay>narrative' argument, but there was no real gameplay reason he had to be PS8, especially since with an elite slot he could be PS6, 7, 8 or 9 as you desire, and there was a narrative reason he should be PS7; he should match Keyan Farlander, Maarek Stele and Dash Rendar as like all of them he is 'you' - the protagonist character of a star wars dogfighting game.

eh, PS seems entirely arbitrary to me as a concept. Just like epts, I don't think the amount of gameplay options they open up for ships should be restricted by fluff or preconceived notions of which type of pilot get whichever PS. You should be able to tinker with them regardless of fluff

On that note, however, I would not have minded if Nym and Sol swapped PS or abilities. Having a high PS is such a stupid advantage in this game that it really could stand to be balanced out by a less obviously useful ability, and that goes across all ship chassis.

But no, Miri, Dash, and Dengar are all far and away that absolute best of their ship-type ito pilot ability. Really is a shame, imo

Thing is though there's like 2 cases in the gamer where they actually got it RIGHT WRT giving the best abilities to the lowest PS uniques. At this point, it's lookign more and more like it happens by accident, not by design.

8 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

But no, Miri, Dash, and Dengar are all far and away that absolute best of their ship-type ito pilot ability. Really is a shame, imo

Also Vader, Corran Horn and far too many other cases to mention...

The TIE Striker and TIE/sf are the two which jump at me as having multiple pilots all of whom have some real use, not just I-want-to-use-this-guy-because-reasons. Fel & Jax were both genuinely good, but the Interceptor as a chassis has problems.

2 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Also Vader, Corran Horn and far too many other cases to mention...

The TIE Striker and TIE/sf are the two which jump at me as having multiple pilots all of whom have some real use, not just I-want-to-use-this-guy-because-reasons. Fel & Jax were both genuinely good, but the Interceptor as a chassis has problems.

the defender too! (and the gunboat, but that's pure speculation on my part. leaning more towards the RO being deadeye SCURRG level of viable with HLCs)

and the jm5k, but only because it's so broken

Yes. The defender is another good example.

1 hour ago, Thormind said:

EPTless Nym remains the same vs any pilot of PS7 or less (ps8 if initiative). Only thing it affects is his performance vs aces. I dont agree that Nym is worst than miranda when he does not have the ps advantage. His bombing flexibility is extremely high with advanced sensor+genius+pilot ability+boost+barrel roll. He also has a much better dial and he does not have to sacrifice an attack for an advanced SLAM. Rebel Nym is also better at controling the field with those unlimited bomblets that he can prevent from detonating. I actually have an easier time bombing with rebel Nym than i have with Miranda.

Also dont forget that Miranda is OP and a nerf to advanced SLAM is comming...

I'm in the opinion that Adv. SLAM nerf would only marginally affect Miranda, as EI is not a significantly worse option.

Do you have an easier time bombing with PS8 Nym, or PS10 Nym?