Beyond being the title of one of the most important book to have in 4th ed, Ennemies of the Empire is to discuss which threat to the Empire you which to see really developed in the final product, thus not needing to wait for a full ennemy sourcebook to give players interesting challenges

Or how to avoid the one dimensional Good world of Rokugan VS Evil Shadowlands? FFG has the possibility to turn the setting from what we know and the classic Oni Ennemies, focusing on the human aspects instead of on "cosmic" supernatural threats menacing the balance of Ningen Do.

In order of priorities I wish to see addressed:

Kolat conspiracy

The Yobanjin

Yorei and Gaki (more interesting as a supernatural threats than Oni and Bakemono)

Gozoku Like Conspiracy

Westerner Inspired Gaijin (Thrane, Merenae)

Bloodspeakers

The Yodotai Empire

The Lying Darkness

The Shadowlands

What about you? Which vilains in Rokugan do you fancy, or dislike? Which one would you hope to see play a big part in FFG setting reboot?

You know?

I think a balance of both would be cool. Perhaps with some DM advice on how to emphasize one over the other or keep them balanced so as to suit the individual game style.

Yokai, and generally non Fu-Leng aligned supernatural creatures #1.

More creepy supernatural stuff #2.

Criminals of the Empire #3.

Insider enemies of the Empire #4.

Non-Westerner Gaijin (So basically Ivory Kingdoms and maybe neighbors of Unicorn). #5, but light years away from the top 4.

I actively don't want westerner gaijins, yodotai, lying darkness (at least not in the shape and form it had until now), and "world beyond the empire". And either no kolat, or radically re-made-sense kolat.

I'd probably divvy them up into 'clan' sourcebooks

• Phoenix - non shadowlands supernatural
• Scorpion - criminal cartels
• Unicorn - neigbouring tribes
• Lion - rebels and bandits
• Crab - shadowlanders
• Crane - noble conspiracies (koblat)
• Not sure about dragon?

1 hour ago, Magnus Grendel said:

I'd probably divvy them up into 'clan' sourcebooks

• Phoenix - non shadowlands supernatural
• Scorpion - criminal cartels
• Unicorn - neigbouring tribes
• Lion - rebels and bandits
• Crab - shadowlanders
• Crane - noble conspiracies (koblat)
• Not sure about dragon?

Cool Idea... Dragon would be about weird religious sects.

2 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

I'd probably divvy them up into 'clan' sourcebooks

• Phoenix - non shadowlands supernatural
• Scorpion - criminal cartels
• Unicorn - neigbouring tribes
• Lion - rebels and bandits
• Crab - shadowlanders
• Crane - noble conspiracies (koblat)
• Not sure about dragon?

I would put the Kolat more as a threat the Unicorn have to deal with, and would more consider organisations like the Gozoku a fit for the Crane.

Like:
The other great clan?
China has a long and rich history of civil wars.

Dislike:
Single story line super evil ala destroyer or pang ku.

5 hours ago, Drudenfusz said:

I would put the Kolat more as a threat the Unicorn have to deal with, and would more consider organisations like the Gozoku a fit for the Crane.

They did have the biggest exposure to it, but they have a lot of natural soucebook material with the 'foreign lands'.

Gozoku are a good point - theyre a political conspiracy (suitable for the crane) whilst the kolat are a religious/philosophical one (which I guess works for the dragon).

Dragon already have a focus on cults in the fiction with the Perfect Land Sect, so cults in general would work for them. Ancient secret societies also work, as they are supposed to be the memory of the empire.

Honestly, every other clan fits as the Scorpion's enemies, but they would be very well suited to conspiracies among the clans - they are to keep them divided so they don't threaten the emperor, after all.

33 minutes ago, Talandar said:

they are to keep them divided so they don't threaten the emperor, after all.

That's not the job of the Scorpion that's the Job of the Otomo. Scorpion scours the shadows to find those hiding in the shadows.

tbh after rereading the lcg fictions (garden of lies) I'm starting to wonder if the Kolat (which are totally shinseist) aren't actually hiding behind the pure land sect... Also, kolat's home base is supposed to bein the northern mountains.

2 hours ago, Nitenman said:

That's not the job of the Scorpion that's the Job of the Otomo. Scorpion scours the shadows to find those hiding in the shadows.

tbh after rereading the lcg fictions (garden of lies) I'm starting to wonder if the Kolat (which are totally shinseist) aren't actually hiding behind the pure land sect... Also, kolat's home base is supposed to bein the northern mountains.

The Scorpion are the Emperor's Underhand ("I'll be your villain"). That includes ensuring no one Clan grows powerful enough to threaten the Empire and making themselves rather than the Emperor the target of any alliance seeking to overthrow the current order.

For me the most interesting adversaries are always the other clans. I wouldn't call them enemies per se (though depending on the era clans have certainly been enemies to one another), but they all serve their own interests - and are in fact duty-bound to do so. When there are that many great powers in Rokugan, all with conflicting interests, you don't really need an obvious baddie. That doesn't mean bringing up any of the usual suspects every now and then can't be a really good idea, not at all, but once you expose them they become straightforward to deal with. Not necessarily easy, but straightforward. If your antagonist is an Oni or a maho tsukai, you can do whatever you want to take them down and nobody will give you any trouble. If you find your antagonists have samurai status and connections in court and will enjoy the protection of their lord to a certain extent, then the challenge becomes dealing with all the potential fallout. That's where the fun is.

I'd still love a sourcebook detailing "enemy" factions, it's just not a priority for me. If we get one down the road, I'd like to see Daigotsu and the Spider clan included though.

14 hours ago, nameless ronin said:

The Scorpion are the Emperor's Underhand ("I'll be your villain"). That includes ensuring no one Clan grows powerful enough to threaten the Empire and making themselves rather than the Emperor the target of any alliance seeking to overthrow the current order.

Nope, that's the job of the Otomo, whose total resources are devoted to this. This mission came to them after the fall of the Gozoku conspiracy (which was actually led by the scorpion, crane and Phoenix). The Otomo ensure no clan becomes too powerful and no clans unite against the Emperor

Sorry but the Scorpion doesn't have the resources to ensure that no clan grows more powerful than the other. They are already using all their resources to fight the threats hidden below the eyes of those too honorable to see them (actual meaning of the Underhand) and that's a full time job. Yes they appears as the villain, but it's not to keep balance between clans. it's not their goal. Just the fact that they sometimes reach the peak of Rokugani power contradict that.

Also, the clans vying against each other isn't really "an interesting antagonism". It's the normal background of Rokugani society (most often with a push from the Otomo).

3 minutes ago, Nitenman said:

Nope, that's the job of the Otomo, whose total resources are devoted to this. This mission came to them after the fall of the Gozoku conspiracy (which was actually led by the scorpion, crane and Phoenix). The Otomo ensure no clan becomes too powerful and no clans unite against the Emperor

Sorry but the Scorpion doesn't have the resources to ensure that no clan grows more powerful than the other. They are already using all their resources to fight the threats hidden below the eyes of those too honorable to see it(actual meaning of the Underhand) and that's a full time job. Yes they appears as the villain, but it's not to keep balance between clans. it's not their goal. Just the fact that they sometimes reach the peak of Rokugani power contradict that.

Also, the clans vying against each other isn't really "an interesting antagonism". It's the normal background of Rokugani society (most often with a push from the Otomo).

The Otomo do manipulate the clans, but Bayushi knew that becoming the Emperor's Underhand meant that "if the clans ever united it would be against the Scorpion and not the Emperor" (that last bit is from 4th edition's The Great Clans ). If the Scorpion are not interested in keeping the other clans under control, why all the political backstabbing, the manipulations, the blackmail, etc? That's a lot of effort to expend just to build up an intelligence network aimed at other threats entirely. The fact is that the clans could be a hidden threat. The Scorpion prevent that. The Otomo work in the public sphere, the Scorpion work unseen or at minimum under a guise of plausible deniability.

As for the clans vying against each other being the normal background of Rokugani society: yes, exactly. That's the beauty of it.

"He asked Bayushi to
become his Underhand, doing unpleasant but necessary
things to ensure the survival of the Empire. Bayushi knew
this would make his new clan reviled by the rest of Rokugan,
but this also meant if the clans ever united it would
be against the Scorpion and not the Emperor."

Bayushi indeed instigated his clan as the designated "villain" to all. They became the face of villainy.

The spy network helps indeed to keep check on everyone, mostly those hiding in the shadows, but not really keep everyone in check, simply because they can't. it's not about balance really. they dont keep the balance between everyone, they ensure everyone is mainly weary about them. So your interpretation is not wrong, but that's not what the charter of the scorpion is.

they just can't control everything despite their wish too. that's why they are for example so frustrated and yet fascinated by the Dragon.

Feels like we are seeing the same thing, with small nuances.

Oh, and the Otomo are also great in dealing in unseen ways, often using the scorpion for that.

The beta .pdf is fairly clear about it:

[The Scorpion] keep all clans united in hatred against them, yet divided so that no one clan can challenge the line to whom they owe undying loyalty: the Hantei.

That status quo is the balance they keep. As long as the clans are divided, any clan making a move on the throne will have at least one or two others (plus the Scorpion) to deal with, and likely more. It's not about the Scorpion keeping everyone in check; it's about the Scorpion ensuring everyone keeps everyone else in check. Any of the military clans, including the Mantis, is strong enough to defeat the Imperial armies. Even if the Scorpion armies help oppose them. But throw in one or two of the other big military forces and that changes the equation dramatically.

The Otomo are not above using underhanded means, but they work the system. It's their system to use, after all. The Scorpion might blackmail rice merchants into not selling to the Crab, the Otomo will more likely convince them that if they don't double their prices for the Crab this season they might find nobody willing to buy their goods next season. The Scorpion could ruin the reputation of a promising magistrate to prevent his promotion, the Otomo will have a conversation with someone higher up in the chain of command and they'll decide another magistrate is more worthy of the position. Land disputes, fishing rights, successions, anything involving bureaucracy can be used by the Otomo. They know they have leverage, and they drive a hard bargain with it.

Agree to not fully agree then .

I agree with you, the scorp paints itself as the target. I disagree that they keep other clans to grow too powerful because they haven't the means to actually do that.

while the spirit is maybe as written, in practice the scorpion can only do as much as their resources allow them.

And their main agenda is first and foremost to work for the Scorpion itself. Like other clans. And other clans haven't really united to destroy the scorpion, despite their underhanded ways because after all, what they do is what the Hantei told them to do.

Anyway, lets drop that and maybe talk about other threats for the empire as a whole.

No, it’s ok if the other clans grow powerful. If and when that happens what matters is that they all grow powerful, not any one much more so than any of the others, and that they don’t become too chummy. That way everyone keeps everyone else in check. But ok, agree to disagree.

I’m really not keen on external enemies. Variety is good, so it’s not like I have no use whatsoever for them, but a faction like the Yodotai is absolutely the last antagonist I will reach for when trying to come up with a new adventure. Groups like the Gozoku are best, assuming I want some kind of pre-established opponent for the players: they’re hidden, widespread, and their members have their own motivations and goals aside from the organizations. They’re also samurai, and they’re not even doing anything illegal per se. They can just be doing something the PCs don’t want to happen.

Things like the Lying Darkness, Oni hidden on this side of the Wall or Bloodspeakers are fun as long as they turn the tenets of being samurai against characters, when they use societal norms for their own ends. Anything that doesn’t put them in the open. Anything that generates conflict between resolving the issue and doing what being a samurai demands. Even something like the Tomb of Iuchiban has a little bit of intrigue and plot twists. Rokugan is a deadly setting, but very much not a hack&slash setting.

Yodotai were indeed over the top with their pseudo roman empire flavor and felt like an anachronism and out of place, even in the burning sands.

I would actually like to see the Lying Darkness get more foreshadowing and therefore be more addressed earlier on than it was previously (though in very nebulous and unspecific terms). I would like the Shadowlands to be prevalent also as I like the previous narrative.

I would rather slow-burn the Kolat. I think conspiracies should not be addressed too early and should be given time (rather like the Lying Darkness) so they lurk in the background and gain a sense of being all sinister and pervasive. Dealing with them too quickly I find ill-fitting for them.

I am interested in Gaijin (Sands and beyond). However I would rather exhaust Rokugan before moving beyond its borders... I did like the Burning Sands card game, the setting seemed fun.