Mechanics for being strong(er) in the Force.

By MasterKazur, in Star Wars: Force and Destiny RPG

Since we're on the subject, I came up with some houserules for making the mentor mean more both in roleplay and in game mechanics. In addition, it's a way for non-Force Sensitives to benefit from mentors too!

I threw these together mostly for Force Sensitive PCs as I've so far run EotE games in which some players have branched into F&D stuff. Those characters are generally behind the rest of the group in terms of ability due to having to split their XP not just between skills & talents but between skills, talents & Force powers. Generally these PCs have access to a Holocron but not a living, breathing Jedi to train them & the Holocrons rarely ever come up in the narrative of the game because of the way they are written in the book. So not only are all my holocrons filled with AI gatekeepers, there is now a reason for the players to interact with them within the game.

However, these are perfectly usable for non-Force Sensitives, all it requires is a mentor (NPC that has the skill rank or talent, Force power, or power upgrade you're planning to acquire next), is willing to train you and as long as you both have the in-game time to go about the training process.

Learning from a teacher:

Once per session, you may attempt to learn your next skill rank, Force power, Force power upgrade or talent from your teacher at a lowered xp cost. The attempt to learn is based on a skill check with a difficulty equal to the cost of the talent or power upgrade divided by 5 or for a skill, the difficulty is the skill rank number you’re trying to learn. Doing this signifies you are buying that ability at the end of the session, regardless of success and requires you have enough xp to buy the ability normally.

This applies for any character who knows an NPC who can teach them, such as a holocron gatekeeper, a trained Force user, an old war veteran, an ace pilot, anyone who has those abilities and is willing to teach the PC.

The check takes 24 in-game hours & represents your character taking time & effort towards learning from their teacher. This amount of time can be broken up over the course of several in-game days. You will benefit from this once the in-game time requirement is up or you reach the end of that game session, whichever comes first (abilities you gain access to before you have spent the xp to buy them between sessions apply the “Learn As You Go” rules). Depending on how well you train you could master that new ability quickly. Additional successes, failures, advantages, threats, triumphs & despairs can be applied narratively & mechanically to show how well or how bad the training goes, how long it takes, if any strain is recovered or taken or if you suffer an injury during the process.

Dice result breakdown

Success represents your training going well and allows you to purchase that new ability for 5xp less (minimum 5xp). Additional successes reduce the time taken by 1 hour per success, to a minimum of 6 hours.

Failure means you must still buy the ability but at the normal xp cost. Additional failures add 1 hour per failure to the training time taken.

Advantage represents a relative ease in grasping the concept, technique, finding your center, staying calm & collected, and so on. This can be narrative as well as add 1 boost die to your next skill check, per 2 advantage results.

Threat represents a challenging time grasping the idea, technique, method, having a hard time keeping focused, & so on. This can be narrative as well as add 1 setback die to your next skill check, per 2 threat results.

Triumph means you are exceptionally quick to master the new ability and results in the new ability costing no xp whatsoever. This means you have an innate talent in learning that ability.

Despair represents something going horribly wrong with the training. You roll a d100 & suffer a critical injury based on the critical injury chart. Alternatively, you suffer a number of strain equal to half your threshold.

Edited by GroggyGolem
8 hours ago, SavageBob said:

Yeah, if your players are happy with one of the other PCs being a god among men, that's fine, too. :)

Nah, they would hate that :)

I was referring to one PC starting with (almost) two ranks in Force Rating, instead of one ;)

That, they are perfectly fine with.

But if that thing about one of them being a god ever comes up, I’ll let them know that you said it was cool :)

Edited by MasterKazur
On 10/13/2017 at 5:26 PM, Absol197 said:

Got that, but I don't have a way to share it on here. Any suggestions?

Mediafire is how I do it.

8 hours ago, Kaigen said:

This could be a good place to employ the differing Mentor mechanics from Disciples of Harmony. Give the character a discount on specific powers and an advantageous quirk coupled with some sort of drawback that they can theoretically buy off with XP if their character grows beyond it.

My GM for a kotor era game let us choose a mentor to get their associated custom mentor bonus, one was +25xp at char gen, another helped with lightsabres somehow, the one I chose let me spend a darkside pip as if it were a light side pip (no destiny point/no conflict) once per encounter... after having done that once every encounter in the first session, we agreed there should be some kind of cost... I recommended it be a conflict talent type thing where I take one conflict per session just because. I'm aiming for the ascetic conflict talent too.

12 hours ago, MasterKazur said:

Nah, they would hate that :)

I was referring to one PC starting with (almost) two ranks in Force Rating, instead of one ;)

That, they are perfectly fine with.

But if that thing about one of them being a god ever comes up, I’ll let them know that you said it was cool :)

SavageBob might have been exaggerating things a bit, but he does have a point.

It may not look like it on paper, but Force Rating 2 makes a PC far more capable at doing Force things without being nearly as reliant upon using dark side pips to generate Force points, and they'll have the potential for much greater effects than PCs with only Force Rating 1.

For instance, the Move power is one that with just Force Rating 1 is only moderately useful, as you need at least two Force points to get any noticeable effects by way of activating upgrades (Strength to move bigger things, Range to affect things further away, Magnitude to affect multiple things), to a point where it's been often recommended that a PC not invest a lot of XP into the power until they reach FR2.

But, once a PC has FR2, they can now more reliably activate the base power and an upgrade, and have a decent chance of being able to either activate multiple upgrades or a single upgrade multiple times, with Strength being a favorite if the PC has the hurl objects Control Upgrade as they can dish out more damage. All they need is a single success on a Discipline check that's not going to be that difficult if they've got Willpower 3 and at a least a single rank in Discipline.

Another element is that Force Rating 2 opens up access to additional powers, such as Bind which can be pretty amazing field control as you restrict enemies from moving, and with a single Control Upgrade can force them to suffer strain damage if they take their action.

If you are dead set on giving this one PC the special snowflake treatment, then I strongly suggest the other PCs in the group get some kind of boost as well; at minimum it should be an extra 25XP that counts as character creation XP (as in it can be spent to increase characteristics) or equipment that they normally wouldn't be able to begin play with due to said equipment being far too expensive to purchase with a starting character's XP funds (I wouldn't include kyber crystals in that list, as those are something the PCs really should earn).

From my own experience, I got more than a little stink-eye from a couple of the layers when my Shien Expert got his boost to Force Rating, even though it came with the drawback of being unable to hide his Force presence (same mechanics as sensing a mephite crystal through the Force; if within range detection is automatic), though said drawback really only came into play a few times while that Force Rating boost was constantly helpful.

I like the Vergence idea, but one of the cornerstone rules of the MarcyVerse is that nobody - not one single person in the entire galaxy - is a Special Snowflake in the Force. As a concept it simply doesn't exist for us.

As Jolee Bindo once said, 'sometimes high midichondriawhatsit count swirls of Force are just... swirls of Force'.

The no. 1 complaint when we set the game up was 'the Galaxy belongs to the Kardashians'. It's not about 'doing the right thing', it's about having the right surname, the right bloodline, the right connections and Plot Armour.

The one thing all of us loathed was how Star Wars had become MarySueTopia, and everyone had their own author-insert 'Chosen One' 'Jedi Prince' character fighting for dominance.

That doesn't mean some characters don't start out with more XP. Powerful characters exist. But everyone is built by the rules. And NPCs can't do anything the PCs can't.

So it's best to ask the other players if they mind one particular character being the 'Chosen One'. If they don't fine - but please make sure before they feel like they're merely supporting bit-parts to a PC designated hero.

EDIT - Ninja'd by Donovan! :)

Edited by Maelora
10 hours ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

SavageBob might have been exaggerating things a bit, but he does have a point.

It may not look like it on paper, but Force Rating 2 makes a PC far more capable at doing Force things without being nearly as reliant upon using dark side pips to generate Force points, and they'll have the potential for much greater effects than PCs with only Force Rating 1.

For instance, the Move power is one that with just Force Rating 1 is only moderately useful, as you need at least two Force points to get any noticeable effects by way of activating upgrades (Strength to move bigger things, Range to affect things further away, Magnitude to affect multiple things), to a point where it's been often recommended that a PC not invest a lot of XP into the power until they reach FR2.

But, once a PC has FR2, they can now more reliably activate the base power and an upgrade, and have a decent chance of being able to either activate multiple upgrades or a single upgrade multiple times, with Strength being a favorite if the PC has the hurl objects Control Upgrade as they can dish out more damage. All they need is a single success on a Discipline check that's not going to be that difficult if they've got Willpower 3 and at a least a single rank in Discipline.

Another element is that Force Rating 2 opens up access to additional powers, such as Bind which can be pretty amazing field control as you restrict enemies from moving, and with a single Control Upgrade can force them to suffer strain damage if they take their action.

If you are dead set on giving this one PC the special snowflake treatment, then I strongly suggest the other PCs in the group get some kind of boost as well; at minimum it should be an extra 25XP that counts as character creation XP (as in it can be spent to increase characteristics) or equipment that they normally wouldn't be able to begin play with due to said equipment being far too expensive to purchase with a starting character's XP funds (I wouldn't include kyber crystals in that list, as those are something the PCs really should earn).

From my own experience, I got more than a little stink-eye from a couple of the layers when my Shien Expert got his boost to Force Rating, even though it came with the drawback of being unable to hide his Force presence (same mechanics as sensing a mephite crystal through the Force; if within range detection is automatic), though said drawback really only came into play a few times while that Force Rating boost was constantly helpful.

*Slow Clapping builds*

1 hour ago, Maelora said:

I like the Vergence idea, but one of the cornerstone rules of the MarcyVerse is that nobody - not one single person in the entire galaxy - is a Special Snowflake in the Force. As a concept it simply doesn't exist for us.

As Jolee Bindo once said, 'sometimes high midichondriawhatsit count swirls of Force are just... swirls of Force'.

The no. 1 complaint when we set the game up was 'the Galaxy belongs to the Kardashians'. It's not about 'doing the right thing', it's about having the right surname, the right bloodline, the right connections and Plot Armour.

The one thing all of us loathed was how Star Wars had become MarySueTopia, and everyone had their own author-insert 'Chosen One' 'Jedi Prince' character fighting for dominance.

That doesn't mean some characters don't start out with more XP. Powerful characters exist. But everyone is built by the rules. And NPCs can't do anything the PCs can't.

So it's best to ask the other players if they mind one particular character being the 'Chosen One'. If they don't fine - but please make sure before they feel like they're merely supporting bit-parts to a PC designated hero.

EDIT - Ninja'd by Donovan! :)

*Doubles*

Yeah it's just the reality that a free FR is worth about 75-95 EXP. Mechanically it's a huge bonus.
Not that i'm hating the idea I just think it's more powerful than is being considered.

*Devil's advocate*

I play in a scenario in which we have a character who is significantly more advanced than the others. This has come from actual RP and using EXP but it doesn't change the fact that he is simply capable of stuff that everyone else cannot. It doesn't harm the game and no one is salty because he earned the points necessary. Regardless in several situations he can do things that cause him to spotlight frequently to the point where he reigns it in order to allow others to have their moment.
Giving a Character an additional bonus absent EXP cost might make sense in your story and so long as there is some sort of limit on how often he can use the verge effect I can understand it. Just be cautious as it may lead to them spotlighting far too often.

Edited by Luahk

It reminds me a bit of the stuff that crept into D&D in 3rd edition. All these self-insert characters like Drizzt and Elminster with their Chosen One 'templates' that gave them all obscenely overpowered stuff for free.

They weren't just high level, because a PC can achieve that, but they had all these uber powers and Special Snowflake abilities that no PC could ever get.

You'd honestly be better off giving him a few hundred XP maybe. Unless, as I say, the other players are fine with it. Some of my players built Mechanics and Diplomats and Scouts and other things that aren't super-awesome-badass, because they just like the concept and don't have to be kickass fighters or Space Magic Wizards.

Edited by Maelora
11 hours ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

SavageBob might have been exaggerating things a bit, but he does have a point.

It may not look like it on paper, but Force Rating 2 makes a PC far more capable at doing Force things without being nearly as reliant upon using dark side pips to generate Force points, and they'll have the potential for much greater effects than PCs with only Force Rating 1.

For instance, the Move power is one that with just Force Rating 1 is only moderately useful, as you need at least two Force points to get any noticeable effects by way of activating upgrades (Strength to move bigger things, Range to affect things further away, Magnitude to affect multiple things), to a point where it's been often recommended that a PC not invest a lot of XP into the power until they reach FR2.

But, once a PC has FR2, they can now more reliably activate the base power and an upgrade, and have a decent chance of being able to either activate multiple upgrades or a single upgrade multiple times, with Strength being a favorite if the PC has the hurl objects Control Upgrade as they can dish out more damage. All they need is a single success on a Discipline check that's not going to be that difficult if they've got Willpower 3 and at a least a single rank in Discipline.

Another element is that Force Rating 2 opens up access to additional powers, such as Bind which can be pretty amazing field control as you restrict enemies from moving, and with a single Control Upgrade can force them to suffer strain damage if they take their action.

If you are dead set on giving this one PC the special snowflake treatment, then I strongly suggest the other PCs in the group get some kind of boost as well; at minimum it should be an extra 25XP that counts as character creation XP (as in it can be spent to increase characteristics) or equipment that they normally wouldn't be able to begin play with due to said equipment being far too expensive to purchase with a starting character's XP funds (I wouldn't include kyber crystals in that list, as those are something the PCs really should earn).

From my own experience, I got more than a little stink-eye from a couple of the layers when my Shien Expert got his boost to Force Rating, even though it came with the drawback of being unable to hide his Force presence (same mechanics as sensing a mephite crystal through the Force; if within range detection is automatic), though said drawback really only came into play a few times while that Force Rating boost was constantly helpful.

But he doesn’t have FR2 ;) almost though.

Neither does he have move or any other Force power, like Bind (which would require FR2 like you said). The other players in the party will be given an XP boost in the amount of zero. I appreciate your imput, but I’m really only looking for a “how”, not an “if” :) I hope you understand.

On 10/15/2017 at 5:40 PM, MasterKazur said:

But he doesn’t have FR2 ;) almost though.

Neither does he have move or any other Force power, like Bind (which would require FR2 like you said). The other players in the party will be given an XP boost in the amount of zero. I appreciate your imput, but I’m really only looking for a “how”, not an “if” :) I hope you understand.

My question for you is this.

Are you trying to have a system for having someone to be constantly more powerful than anyone else with the Force?

Or just a way for them to start out with a more powerful Force connection than the basic FR 1?

I ask because there can be some very different answers, depending on what you have in mind. And I have several of them, but need to know which route you are taking :)

Edited by KungFuFerret
21 hours ago, KungFuFerret said:

My question for you is this.

Are you trying to have a system for having someone to be constantly more powerful than anyone else with the Force?

Or just a way for them to start out with a more powerful Force connection than the basic FR 1?

I ask because there can be some very different answers, depending on what you have in mind. And I have several of them, but need to know which route you are taking :)

Good and fair questions :)

The character in question is the only one, of 5 players, who is Force-sensitive. So no matter what, he will be more powerful than them in the Force.

If two or more players had FS characters I would not implement this mechanic for just one.

So I guess the answer to both your questions is “Yes” :)

Looking forward to your views; but again keep in mind that I’m really only looking for a “how”, not an “if”.

Just give all the players more starting xp, unless ALL the players want one character to be superior to all the others.

No point in inventing complex rules favoring one PC over the others, if you absolutely want that to happen just give them extra rank of force power.

11 minutes ago, Darzil said:

Just give all the players more starting xp, unless ALL the players want one character to be superior to all the others.

No point in inventing complex rules favoring one PC over the others, if you absolutely want that to happen just give them extra rank of force power.

Nah ;)

Thanks, though.

3 hours ago, MasterKazur said:

Good and fair questions :)

The character in question is the only one, of 5 players, who is Force-sensitive. So no matter what, he will be more powerful than them in the Force.

If two or more players had FS characters I would not implement this mechanic for just one.

So I guess the answer to both your questions is “Yes” :)

Looking forward to your views; but again keep in mind that I’m really only looking for a “how”, not an “if”.

Well, my thoughts on how to implement it in either direction, in a way that's tangible, but not game breaking:

1. More Powerful At Game Start (But not necessarily permanently more powerful)
Use the "Learn As You Go" optional rules. This allows a player to select either a Skill, Force Power (or specific upgrade), or even a Talent, that they don't currently have (but have potential access to through their career/spec), and let them pick the "Force Rating +1" talent from their tree. This is, in my opinion, the easiest way to implement the "He's young, but strong in the Force, he needs training though!" trope. It gives them access to Force Rating 2 early on, which will give them a LOT more utility with the Force, but it's not something that is free. They have to spend XP towards unlocking it at a reasonable rate (determined by the GM). Plus, they have some side effects as well. They might have to always roll a Discipline check for every Force use (their power is strong, but hard to direct), or perhaps they will always generate +1 Conflict any time they actually do generate conflict (the Force is strong in them, but that also means the pull of the Dark Side is stronger too). Or perhaps they always have to expend a point of strain any time they use a Force power (again, they are strong, but it's an effort to control it, like trying to tame a river). Things like that. It would help to govern their obvious edge on other players (and enemies), without completely neutering it in the first place.
Once they spend the necessary XP to actually buy the +1 Force Rating talent, they will be just as powerful as any other PC's who have spent the time to buy into FR 2 by that point. But it won't be a permanent "I'm always better than everyone else" kind of method. And, they can always replicate the Learn As You Go rule again for FR 3, if they buy into a second spec that provides a Force Rating boost talent. Which again, would let them mechanically be more powerful, without really breaking the game. They are still spending the XP like anyone else is who was trying to unlock the same talent, they are just getting access to the merchandise before the final payment is all.

2. More Powerful Always
Now, again, trying to consider game balance, but also allowing for Special Snowflake-ness, this is a bit more tricky. But, one idea I had, was to have them roll a Discipline check on every Force power, BUT, the reason and results are vastly different. Have the check be at least 3 purple, possibly more. If they succeed at the check, they get an extra force pip to play with(of their choice, light or dark). If they fail, or generate threat on the check, they garner additional Conflict (on top of any they might've earned anyway for other factors of their action). This would mean that they have the potential to be consistently more powerful than any other Force user of equal Force rating. Now it's not a guaranteed thing of course, but it would give them a bit of a permanent edge, without having them end up like Goku, and all of the other low level plebs in the party just standing there watching him save the day.

That's my thoughts on it, to try and keep it somewhat balanced.