As far as I know, no rules currently exist to represent someone who is naturally more powerful in the Force than a “regular” Force-sensitive. Someone like Anakin, Kyp Durron, and Rey.
How would you guys handle a houserule to bring this element into your game?
Something akin to being near a Nexus, only permanent? Free/cheeper upgrades in Force powers? A triumph-like effect on Force abilities when using a destiny point?
More XP and a higher Force Rating?
For my personal version of the big DV, I took Qui-Gon literally when he said that Anakin was a vergence in the Force. So I made him a major neutral Vergence (adding +1 Force die to all his Force power checks), using the rules for Vergence creation from Nexus of Power .
For his unique Vergence ability, I said that he can take 2 Conflict in order to generate and use 2 Dark side pips instead of adding the extra Force die to his roll. Using these pips did not require him to spend a Destiny Point or take strain (if he was a light side user), only the 2 Conflict.
That's pretty much what I'd do. Anything more than the Vergence abilities are likely too much.
Edited by Absol1973 minutes ago, Absol197 said:For my personal version of the big DV, I took Qui-Gon literally when he said that Anakin was a vergence in the Force. So I made him a major neutral Vergence (adding +1 Force die to all his Force power checks), using the rules for Vergence creation from Nexus of Power .
For his unique Vergence ability, I said that if he can take 2 Conflict in order to generate and use 2 Dark side pips instead of adding the extra Force die to his roll. Using these pips did not require him to spend a Destiny Point or take strain (if he was a light side user), only the 2 Conflict.
That's pretty much what I'd do. Anything more than the Vergence abilities are likely too much.
Really like this. Consider this idea stolen!
NOOOOooooooooo!!!!!</darthvader>
EDIT: An important note is that the extra Force die granted from him being a vergence does not count as a part of his Force rating. Meaning that he can't commit it, because you can't commit more dice than your Force rating.
Edited by Absol197What about ONCE A LEARNER? It actually says you increase another's FR but you can't do any FPC while it's active.
I'm playing a character in a friend's campaign who is innately strong in the Force. I basically just spent a good chunk of my starting XP to get FR2 instead of increasing my attributes. Sure, my character started a bit behind most of the others, but now that we're about 100 XP into the game, he's actually pulled ahead quite a bit, and is arguably the most capable in the party.
On 10/13/2017 at 4:43 PM, Underachiever599 said:I'm playing a character in a friend's campaign who is innately strong in the Force. I basically just spent a good chunk of my starting XP to get FR2 instead of increasing my attributes. Sure, my character started a bit behind most of the others, but now that we're about 100 XP into the game, he's actually pulled ahead quite a bit, and is arguably the most capable in the party.
This is the way to do it for PCs. The Vergence method is the way to do it for NPCs.
In fact, this is exactly what I did for my iconic character, Kemna. She's not a Chosen-One-type, but she is exceptionally sensitive to the motion of the Force, so I spent a bunch of her starting XP on getting to FR 4 and buying the basic sensory Force powers she needed, foregoing characteristics and skills a lot to achieve it. She's basically at the "highly-talented beginner" stage of her career.
Edited by Absol19722 minutes ago, Absol197 said:This is the way to do it for PCs. The Vergence method is the way to do it for NPCs.
In fact, this is exactly what I did for my iconic character, Kemna. She's supposed to be a Force prodigy, so I spent a bunch of her starting XP on getting to FR 4 and buying the basic sensory Force powers she needed, foregoing characteristics and skills a lot to achieve it. She's basically at the "highly-talented beginner" stage of her career.
Now you've got me curious about how much XP you started with to get FR 4. So far, the only two games I've been involved in (The one I'm currently running and the one my friend is running), we've always started at base level XP. I'm wanting to run one more game some time when I can find more players, and if I do it will definitely start at least at Knight level.
Side note, my character, Kuroth Boone, is also a natural Force prodigy. So far in the game, he's been using all of his Force powers out of pure instinct, unknowingly influencing the minds of others, enhancing his own physical strength, sensing danger, ect. He's about to undergo actual Jedi training pretty soon in-game, and by the time he hits 150 XP, he'll have everything I consider necessary for a Clone Wars-era Jedi Padawan. Sense, Enhance, Move, Influence, a rank of lightsaber, a couple ranks of Parry, a rank of Reflect, and FR2. Plus some other perks from the talents I've snagged for him. He's not nearly as specialized as any of the other characters, and is instead more of the 'jack of all trades' of the party.
31 minutes ago, Absol197 said:This is the way to do it for PCs. The Vergence method is the way to do it for NPCs.
In fact, this is exactly what I did for my iconic character, Kemna. She's supposed to be a Force prodigy, so I spent a bunch of her starting XP on getting to FR 4 and buying the basic sensory Force powers she needed, foregoing characteristics and skills a lot to achieve it. She's basically at the "highly-talented beginner" stage of her career.
You got a swsheet for her?
On 10/13/2017 at 5:15 PM, Underachiever599 said:Now you've got me curious about how much XP you started with to get FR 4. So far, the only two games I've been involved in (The one I'm currently running and the one my friend is running), we've always started at base level XP. I'm wanting to run one more game some time when I can find more players, and if I do it will definitely start at least at Knight level.
The GM started her with starting XP + 450 for talents and skills + 150 for powers.
Kem's whole deal is that her brain is directly plugged into the Force. She can know what people are thinking and feeling as easily as breathing; basically, sheis hyper-aware of everything going on around her. However, as a consenquence, she is pathologically incapable of hurting people, because she feels the pain she inflicts. And being NEAR a combat is just as bad.
Edited by Absol197Just now, TheShard said:You got a swsheet for her?
Umm...Maybe? I built her in OggDude's character generator most recently, but I might have previously done it in SWSheets. Let me see!
Or a .pdf?
EDIT: Changed my mind.
Edited by Absol197EDIT: Nothing to see here.
Edited by Absol197By RAW, the only method is to purchase the Force Rating talent, as the game is designed to more closely replicate Luke's slow rise in Force ability rather than have characters like Anakin and Kylo Run strutting around.
That being said, if the GM is fully on board with it and prepared for the consequences, there's nothing stopping the GM from just simply handing out a +1 bump to Force Rating to said PC. I was in a recently-concluded campaign where the PCs were caught in the center of a destructing Force vergence (moral of the story, don't let the PC with the huge rifle take potshots at the ancient sarcophagus that's binding an equally ancient Force spirit), with two of the PCs being forcibly awakened to the Force (one of which wind up going slightly mad and falling to the dark side) while my PC (Sentinel/Shien Expert) got his Force Rating bumped from 1 to 2. And to be honest, that simple increase made my character a far more effective Force user, as I could have a die committed to Sense and still have a Force die free for Move.
But, depending on what spec your PC has, it can cause a bit of unbalance to the game, as part of the balance of five of the Lightsaber Form specs is that while they provide a bevy of lightsaber talents (including the very useful Improved Parry and Improved Reflect), the PC doesn't get to increase their Force Rating any, and has to get a second spec in order to grow beyond Force Rating 1. Simply handing off a boost to Force Rating (or even using the method that Absol used for an NPC) gives the PC a substantial leg up compared to any other Force user PCs in the party, especially since they didn't have to spend any XP on additional specs or talents leading up to a Force Rating talent.
For bad guys or particularly powerful npcs I automatically add pips to them similar to the method mentioned earlier.
But for players I try to entirely avoid it. I actually play in a game that is "never ending" where if you die you cycle to a new character with exp boosted to not be entirely irrelevant but still significantly lower than our character who has survived since session 0.
I also add a difficulty to how people learn and progress through force powers to make it harder to become all powerful.
(I will expand in a separate post)
I do believe that quite simply having more force rating makes a significant difference. And even without home ruling an extra die is a big deal. It's tempting to apply additional boosts but the system does work and the higher force rating characters are truly powerful people.
Be mindful of applying any bonuses atop that as you may find when you do get to a higher overall exp level you've heavily overpowered someone.
Thanks for all the great suggestions, guys!
I will be using the vergence rules that Absol197 suggested, and it will be for a PC. It will be weaved into a story spanning decades, and multiple campaigns; my group run all our campaigns within the same Star Wars Universe. Our very own cannon, so to speak. This particular character, and his strong connection to the Force will be building upon events from past campaigns and hence I'm looking for rules to make him "truly special" (to quote Snoke).
I have run this past the group and all players are more than okay with one of them being an eceptionally gifted Force-user (and the only one in the group as it were). So thanks again everybody
If adapting Absol's idea to a PC, you might consider levying a cost for it somehow to keep things balanced for the other playesrs. If you compare a starting F&D Career to a starting EotE or AoR Career, getting Force Rating 1 costs the equivalent of two Career Skills and one free Skill Rank. So if you let your natural Force user start with the equivalent of FR 2, you might want to dock him or her XP or grant the other PCs some sort of compensatory boon. Let's start with the starting FR 2:
You might start by docking him or her two Career Skills and a second free Skill Rank. Alternatively, grant all the other PCs a free rank in Well Rounded and an extra rank in a Career Skill (maybe letting them get to Rank 3 at character creation) to compensate them for the imbalance.
Or, you could think of it in XP-expenditure terms: perhaps two extra Career Skills and one extra Career Rank is worth 20 XP (the cost of a second-tier Well Rounded and a rank in a non-Career skill), so either charge the super Force-user 20 XP, or grant the other PCs 20 XP.
Now, for that extra Vergence rule, the option to voluntarily take the 2 DS pips without rolling, there might be an additional cost. Maybe levy an additional 15 XP for that, or grant the other PCs 15 XP to compensate? This one is much more subjective.
I could see charging even more than the equivalent of 25 XP for the FR2 and that Vergence ability, since +1 FR is generally well down at the bottom of a tree, so there is arguably an XP "tax" to get there. Whatever you do, sounds cool. Have fun!
10 minutes ago, SavageBob said:If adapting Absol's idea to a PC, you might consider levying a cost for it somehow to keep things balanced for the other playesrs. If you compare a starting F&D Career to a starting EotE or AoR Career, getting Force Rating 1 costs the equivalent of two Career Skills and one free Skill Rank. So if you let your natural Force user start with the equivalent of FR 2, you might want to dock him or her XP or grant the other PCs some sort of compensatory boon. Let's start with the starting FR 2:
You might start by docking him or her two Career Skills and a second free Skill Rank. Alternatively, grant all the other PCs a free rank in Well Rounded and an extra rank in a Career Skill (maybe letting them get to Rank 3 at character creation) to compensate them for the imbalance.
Or, you could think of it in XP-expenditure terms: perhaps two extra Career Skills and one extra Career Rank is worth 20 XP (the cost of a second-tier Well Rounded and a rank in a non-Career skill), so either charge the super Force-user 20 XP, or grant the other PCs 20 XP.
Now, for that extra Vergence rule, the option to voluntarily take the 2 DS pips without rolling, there might be an additional cost. Maybe levy an additional 15 XP for that, or grant the other PCs 15 XP to compensate? This one is much more subjective.
I could see charging even more than the equivalent of 25 XP for the FR2 and that Vergence ability, since +1 FR is generally well down at the bottom of a tree, so there is arguably an XP "tax" to get there. Whatever you do, sounds cool. Have fun!
It's not really about balance
In fact the whole idea builds upon it not being "fair" in terms of the RAW, which is fine with us. But I'll consider your points as they are indeed valid. Thanks, SavageBob
11 minutes ago, MasterKazur said:It's not really about balance
In fact the whole idea builds upon it not being "fair" in terms of the RAW, which is fine with us. But I'll consider your points as they are indeed valid. Thanks, SavageBob
Yeah, if your players are happy with one of the other PCs being a god among men, that's fine, too.
Okay, we have mechanics for being strong in the Force. But what about for being strange in the Force?
Tinkering with Aspects from a fan-made Fate Star Wars game had me write down Strange With the Force as a character-defining trait, and I'm sad I never got to develop what this could actually entail. Zayne Carrick-style learning disability? Being better at the more unusual Force applications than at the common ones?
Edited by Stan FreshThe house rule we've got is that at character generation (and as a one-off) a character can spend 10 XP and pick a Force power. When it comes to any check with that named Force Power their Force Rating is treated as being +1 higher than normal. This seemed like the best way to us to map characters who have a particular talent with an aspect of the Force. It also fits with some of the old Legends lore about certain Force users having leanings towards certain abilities. It might also be a way of dealing with certain disciplines/Force traditions as well, but we haven't used it in this way.
56 minutes ago, Stan Fresh said:Okay, we have mechanics for being strong in the Force. But what about for being strange in the Force?
Tinkering with Aspects from a fan-made Fate Star Wars game had me write down Strange With the Force as a character-defining trait, and I'm sad I never got to develop what this could actually entail. Zayne Carrick-style learning disability? Being better at the more unusual Force applications than at the common ones?
This could be a good place to employ the differing Mentor mechanics from Disciples of Harmony. Give the character a discount on specific powers and an advantageous quirk coupled with some sort of drawback that they can theoretically buy off with XP if their character grows beyond it.
1 hour ago, Stan Fresh said:Okay, we have mechanics for being strong in the Force. But what about for being strange in the Force?
Tinkering with Aspects from a fan-made Fate Star Wars game had me write down Strange With the Force as a character-defining trait, and I'm sad I never got to develop what this could actually entail. Zayne Carrick-style learning disability? Being better at the more unusual Force applications than at the common ones?
Cool and super valid.
I think we need a separate post though