18 hours ago, kraken78 said:

Strangely enough, I'm having a very good time with a good win-rate:

Crab/Crane - 2/3x Political Rival,3x Duelist Training, 2/3x Admit Defeat (players choice on whether to add 3 rivals or 3 admits, I tend to do admits since the 3 cost of Rival is a bit steep for 3)

I really like dueling with Crab military values - Opponent losing Cards or Honor is Win/Win and if they happen to win and bow you...sacrifice fodder for another pump.

Depending on how a player deals with the duels decides whether you go for dishonor or military victories - lose honor (Dishonor), lose cards (press province attacks)

Also it is difficult to stop the bowing effect of a duel since there are no action windows within a duel. Also makes for fun and active play.

That is funny. I've been playing with a Lion deck with Crane splash, using the same Crane cards. Are you really liking it? Between political rival, Master of Spear, ECT I'm hoping to get some wins with Admit Defeat.

On ‎13‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 9:26 PM, redmythos said:

If you cant figure what to run as a influence choice I suggest running x3 Levy a 0 cost event action that just flat out gives you an opponents honor or fate is good

I made a Lion Deck that Splashes in Unicorn and it looks like its gonna work wonders

x1 Breakthrough

x2 Captive Audiance

x3 Favored Mount

I was thinking amonst the same lines. Captve audience in just about every deck that goes for military conflict.

On 10/14/2017 at 5:34 PM, Shu2jack said:

If I make a Crab deck, I get only one deck with Crab in it. If I spash Crab, I get most of my decks with Crab in it.

This guy's going places!

Can you do more than one clan splash? Like can a Crab have 3 cards from Crane and 3 from Dragon?

1 minute ago, redmythos said:

Can you do more than one clan splash? Like can a Crab have 3 cards from Crane and 3 from Dragon?

Nope, nope. Only one clan at a time.

Edit: I read a neat idea to have the minor clans work that way, but that's just fan speculation.

With the current card pool, I think dragon is good with either crane or crab splashes depending on what you want to focus on (crab for staying power across conflicts and rounds, crane for staying power within a given conflict). Lion also looks good, but right now I don't think it is at quite the same level as the other two in a 3 core environment, in 1 core lion is probably better than crab for us.

Based on the spoilers for the upcoming releases in the next couple of months, various other strategies look like they'll open up for us, thus we'll likely have a broader variety of really good splashes depending on our focus as well as secondary strategy (for instance if kitsuki decks with a dishonor secondary focus become a thing as some are speculating, then scorpion becomes viable, as well as a different set of crab influences, whereas if monk fate-control become as viable as it looks like it will, phoenix might become the better splash than it currently is due to the ring manipulation opening up more shenanigans). Really what exactly will open up depends greatly on the stuff not yet spoiled, as we currently have one unique dude that is a decent courtier who goes well with certain actions as well as many of the provinces, a monk event, and our seeker and keeper only cards (which make many of us want to get a seeker role for dragon at worlds, hint hint, wink wink). The seeker only card goes really well in a monk-focused fate-control deck, all we need to flesh it out are a few more monks and a few more actions that play with fate on rings (whether putting them there, benefiting from them, or possibly even moving them around/taking them).

17 hours ago, Robin Graves said:

I was thinking amonst the same lines. Captve audience in just about every deck that goes for military conflict.

If you're splashing Unicorn, generally it's for Captive Audience and Spyglass. Wayfinder can also be good for province scouting if you need a few extra cards to max out your influence total. The new Talisman seems like it could be a decent inclusion as well, once it's released.

Dragon, and Crab utilize the Unicorn splash most effectively as they are strong on military and they have ways of getting a character into more than one combat to get more value from spyglass. Favored Mount is not nearly as good as Spyglass.

On 10/13/2017 at 0:17 PM, Ishi Tonu said:

Unicorn w/everyone is pretty garbage, however I've got some decent results with a Crab splash.

Yes, Unicorn with Crab splash is very close to as bad as you can get. Yet, by splashing Crab, you have dismissed Pony without truly understanding them. They are not top tier by any stretch, but neither are they "garbage." See, in our locale, Phoenix is the unwinningest "garbage" clan. Huh, YMMV and tier lists are silly. I will play Pony and I hope to see you at a tourney, soon! =)

1 hour ago, Iuchi Toshimo said:

Yes, Unicorn with Crab splash is very close to as bad as you can get. Yet, by splashing Crab, you have dismissed Pony without truly understanding them. They are not top tier by any stretch, but neither are they "garbage." See, in our locale, Phoenix is the unwinningest "garbage" clan. Huh, YMMV and tier lists are silly. I will play Pony and I hope to see you at a tourney, soon! =)

Weird. Sounds like your local Phoenix players are either playing single core or need to finesse their technique. Or they're just the unluckiest bunch ever on the draw.

10 hours ago, Iuchi Toshimo said:

Yes, Unicorn with Crab splash is very close to as bad as you can get. Yet, by splashing Crab, you have dismissed Pony without truly understanding them. They are not top tier by any stretch, but neither are they "garbage." See, in our locale, Phoenix is the unwinningest "garbage" clan. Huh, YMMV and tier lists are silly. I will play Pony and I hope to see you at a tourney, soon! =)

I'm sorry if my harshness offended you. Yes YMMV depending on your local metagame. Heck, I could completely be missing the mark and everyone playing this game could actually be as loyal to their clan as you are to Unicorn, or I am to Shadowlands. I just don't suspect that to be the case. There are many players coming from other games. The majority of the three playgroups that are local to me are less than half returning L5R players. They don't have the same clan loyalties that you or I might have. And the truth is that I'm better off for it. My 20 years of L5R CCG experience count for squat in the LCG. Getting a fresh set of eyes from new players from other games, as well as not having a true clan to call my own has been invaluable to me. By me not just sitting down and gathering up all the shadowlands cards I need to make a deck I'm now looking at all the clans without any bias. After looking at all the clans and various combinations of clans there are clear winners and losers.

I don't say unicorn are garbage to discourage unicorn players from playing them. I've been doing my best to offer any advice I can to make them as competitive as possible. When looking at them objectively within a competitive environment (i.e. a big tournament) they have some serious deficiencies. Their events are just as strong if not stronger than any other clan, but, they come with a pretty steep cost to them which makes getting countered even more of kick in the teeth, because now you wasted a fate or an honor or 3 fate...etc. and got nothing to show for it. 6 Counter Crane (Crane w/Scorpion splash) is a serious deck and essentially sets the tone for this entire core set only metagame. Now there could very well be a small number of players actually playing Crane in any particular tournament so you may never face it, but, it has to be accounted for if you're playing at the highest levels.

Since this deck is the frontrunner of the environment, anyone else that wants to be a serious contender needs to consider this deck in their testing. One of the ways to combat the number of counters that the deck can bring to bear on you, is to run counters of your own, which means splashing Crane or Scorpion. The clans that can do this, will do this. So it means that there are also number of other clans splashing Crane or Scorpion that have access to up to 3 counters of their own. There may also be a number of Crane and Scorpion decks that do not prefer this style of play and will not splash for the full complement of 6 counters but, they will still have access to at least 3 counters in whatever deck they play. That represents a large portion of the competitive metagame that can have counterspells.

So why doesn't Unicorn just splash for counterspells of their own? They could. The only problem is that is doesn't work so well. Unicorn have a difficult time keeping more honored people on the board than their opponent's and the Crane counter becomes unreliable. The Scorpion can work, however, this splash results in too much honor loss when you also have to consider Captive Audience, Banzai, and Assassination. So now the trick becomes what are the "best" cards to splash with for this metagame. While there are a lot of strong synergies with the other clans and some that just have amazing cards, you still have to consider how those cards will interact in a meta with the top deck having access to 6 counterspells.

Dragon splash seems like an easy pick. It has what are arguably two of the top 10 cards in the game: Mirumoto's Fury and Let Go. They are both excellent cards and do amazing things. Their problem is that they are events and can get countered. This somewhat devalues those cards when played out of Unicorn, or really any other clan that can't protect their strongest events with counterspell back up. Ancestral Items and Tatooed Wanderer are not a bad second choice and it's one I'm still trying to get more testing with.

Lion splash has some really solid cards as well, and some combinations bordering on insane. A Cavalry Reserve into For Greater Glory......yikes! Again this combo and most of the events with this pairing fall flat when faced with heavy counterspell action from your opponent. The attachments are lackluster and Mater of the Spear is expensive.

Phoenix also has some really strong cards, but, again you have the same problem of a Display of Power getting countered and while there are some neat tricks, they don't really cover any holes that the Unicorn have, nor do they enhance their strengths to a point that represents an undeniable theat.

So that leaves you with Crab. A splash that can get you 9 cards that are all either characters or attachments. None can be countered as they are not events. Sure someone can hit you with attachment hate, but, now they have to choose between the Spyglass, Watch Commander, and Reprieve. Stoic Gunso has a great synergy with Cavalry Reserves. Ambusher turns of abilities in a key battle. While these cards may not be as powerful as some of the other options, they are more reliable in what they do for you, no matter which approach you want to take with Unicorn, as there are a couple ways to play them and Crab compliment's both.

If you really feel I have no understanding of the Unicorn and how they interact with the competitive metagame, please elaborate and explain. I'd love to hear more from someone who is more dedicated to the unicorn. I get that my choice of words was not the best and for that I apologize. But to toss the analysis and testing I've done aside because you disagree with a few poorly chosen words would be a mistake. Clan loyalty can always be something of a wild card when it comes to competitive play, however, there will be a good number of players that are competing that don't have 20 years of loyalty baked into their opinions. Taking a step back to evaluate the metagame objectively is the best place to start IMO.

1 minute ago, Ishi Tonu said:

I'm sorry if my harshness offended you.

I'm not so easily offended. What am I, a Crane courtier?

I will simply restate the point of my post. Playstyles and metas vary across regions. Broad generalizations about tiers are not helpful, and without tourney results, inaccurate.

46 minutes ago, Iuchi Toshimo said:

I'm not so easily offended. What am I, a Crane courtier?

I will simply restate the point of my post. Playstyles and metas vary across regions. Broad generalizations about tiers are not helpful, and without tourney results, inaccurate.

So then just wait until the meta has changed so unicorn players know how they could have prepared better for it?

It's pretty well know than playstyles and metas can vary. What does your point do to help people prepare for competitive play? My analysis and testing could very well have led me to in accurate conclusions .......so it takes feeback from others to help people see the various meta games.

Don't agree with me, that fine but at least contribute to the discussion. If you think my generalization is too broad, what more do you want to see that you think would help? What am I wrong about? What is your meta like?

Anything to add?

I'm having a hard time with Phoenix personally. They are almost an auto loss against crane and scorpion and forced into a tough military grind against crab.

Unicorn actually has some decent play after messing with them a bit. I've had turn 3 wins with them already. The ability to keep pressure on the opponent and keep hand size superiority is pretty potent. Splashed with lion, they can achieve good board presence and can defend against both bowing and send home.

Oddly, Crab has been my greatest success and most fun. Honoring people out in 3-4 turns while threatening military victory is a lot of fun.

Shame in comp play that I'm still a loyal Dragon. ?

Played against phoenix. They put three fate on Tsukune, and instantly honored her. It...did not end well for me.

3 hours ago, RandomJC said:

Played against phoenix. They put three fate on Tsukune, and instantly honored her. It...did not end well for me.

As bad as Jade Tetsubo actually is, it can be a pretty decent splash to discourage opponent's from loading up their fate on one character. It's something I've brought in and took out a number of times. I'm not really sure where I would land on it if I was participating in a major tourney. Generally people are not loading up that deep on something unless they have a way to protect against a card that wipes out such a big investment. Which is why Jade Tetsubo ends up being generally underwhelming. Then there are some random times that it just wipes out three turns of a clan champ sticking around and it feels like it's amazing.

4 hours ago, SideshowLucifer said:

Unicorn actually has some decent play after messing with them a bit. I've had turn 3 wins with them already. The ability to keep pressure on the opponent and keep hand size superiority is pretty potent. Splashed with lion, they can achieve good board presence and can defend against both bowing and send home.

Sadly, most of the Unicorn personalities that do best against movement and bow are the 2 fate characters that are dead to Assassination. This is another reality that moved me into Crab. If I'm going to be putting Assassination bait out on the table, because I have too, then I may as well run something to support it. Watch Commander can really put your opponent in a bad situation and being able to move it around makes certain that you have it active in multiple battles each turn. Nothing like watching your opponent's face as they recalculate how much additional honor they stand to lose after doing a 5 bid on their honor dial.

13 minutes ago, Ishi Tonu said:

As bad as Jade Tetsubo actually is, it can be a pretty decent splash to discourage opponent's from loading up their fate on one character. It's something I've brought in and took out a number of times. I'm not really sure where I would land on it if I was participating in a major tourney. Generally people are not loading up that deep on something unless they have a way to protect against a card that wipes out such a big investment. Which is why Jade Tetsubo ends up being generally underwhelming. Then there are some random times that it just wipes out three turns of a clan champ sticking around and it feels like it's amazing.

I was on the ropes with honor so I had to keep swinging at the air ring, so didn't go after void much.

I don't like Jade Tetsubo mostly because it gives the fate back, and I don't really want them to have it back either.

14 minutes ago, RandomJC said:

I was on the ropes with honor so I had to keep swinging at the air ring, so didn't go after void much.

I don't like Jade Tetsubo mostly because it gives the fate back, and I don't really want them to have it back either.

Yeah, overall it's not really good and I currently run without it. but then every once and awhile I throw it in and it does some great stuff for me. Just moving it around for a couple battles for the force bonus is sometimes good enough to sneak out some conflict wins. I try not to let those spectacular moments cloud my judgment of the card though. It really isn't as great as I wished it was

7 minutes ago, Ishi Tonu said:

Yeah, overall it's not really good and I currently run without it. but then every once and awhile I throw it in and it does some great stuff for me. Just moving it around for a couple battles for the force bonus is sometimes good enough to sneak out some conflict wins. I try not to let those spectacular moments cloud my judgment of the card though. It really isn't as great as I wished it was

I'm running one of it as a splash in my lion deck. But that's really just for the force boost. Much prefer watch commander as an attachment.

On 10/13/2017 at 3:42 PM, AradonTemplar said:

Is spyglass very good outside of unicorn? It seemed like it'd only pay for itself if you can activate it's ability multiple times in a round.

Every deck can run 3x Favorable Ground.

7 hours ago, Ishi Tonu said:

As bad as Jade Tetsubo actually is, it can be a pretty decent splash to discourage opponent's from loading up their fate on one character. It's something I've brought in and took out a number of times. I'm not really sure where I would land on it if I was participating in a major tourney. Generally people are not loading up that deep on something unless they have a way to protect against a card that wipes out such a big investment. Which is why Jade Tetsubo ends up being generally underwhelming. Then there are some random times that it just wipes out three turns of a clan champ sticking around and it feels like it's amazing.

I have to agree that Jade Tetsubo is just bad. 2 Fate for +3 Mil is just not good. The ability is really nice but they also have to be participating to use it. A smart player just avoids the charcter the Tetsubo is attatched to, and there is not enough ways to force the character to get into the attack.

Now when Crab gets a good harpoon character it will be better.

On 10/16/2017 at 3:30 PM, Ishi Tonu said:

Anything to add?

Some thoughts on Unicorn are easy to find with even a little effort. But, I'm generally happy to see people underestimate us. Must be a Unicorn thing.

Hope to see you across the table soon!