Points Adjustments & Errata

Fel's Wrath is still unplayable.

Also, GC and Crackshot aren't really a problem are they? Chips was only an issue on the busted jump. Crackshot is the only thing keeping 2 attack die ships in the game. Other than that I like most of these changes.

While I understand some of these cost adjustments, I definitely don't understand all of them. Why are you adjusting Crackshot? I think it's pretty solidly costed at 1, especially since low attack ships are the ones using it. Why drop the other one-time-use EPT's to 0? I usually consider 0 point upgrades to be unwise unless they create a mechanic for a ship, like many titles. Some explanation of cost adjustments would be nice.

Your erratas are, IMO, pretty good, but I disagree with Extra Munitions. It really breathes life into many heavy ordinance carriers like TIE Bombers, Punishers, and probably the K-Wing as well. Do you make it unlimited?

Bomblet Generator: simple, elegant solution. I wouldn't even change the cost. People would probably slow roll to bank up bomblets, but I think this would be balanced. It'd at least require some planning.

Sabine: makes sense to me. She's a lot more like Boba Fett this way. I would probably lower her cost to 1 or improve the ability to be better suited for one-time use.

I agree with HolySorceror, Guidance Chips doesn't really need the change, though I kinda contradict myself with that. Again, it helps TIE Bombers and Punishers, along with other Imperial ordinance carriers, so I'm pretty loathe to change 'em.

Otherwise, decent job. I'd maybe consider some of these adjustments.

Part of the changes are dedicated at turning down alpha strike ability and increase 'TTK', just because I think it's a poor game style. It's bad for your opponent to lose a ship right from the off and I think it's forcing certain ship types out of the game (like the B-Wing) that so much up-front damage exists. At the other end of the scale I pull down the cost of Gunner & Luke because those are useful tools to keep token-stacking defenders under control. They don't necessarily buff the damage that you do (like Expertise does, for instance) but they buff the likelihood that you'll deal at least SOME damage.

So between the two ends of the scale I'm just squeezing down on the extremes of the rate of damage application - it's harder to deal lots of damage at once, and it's harder to avoid taking any damage at all.

Playing pretend FFG developer is fun! Fix suggestion threads are the best!

This is what I would do assuming no constraints of any kind and a make believe world that doesnt exist:

Nym/Miranda- If you drop a bomb you cant use a primary or secondary turret or missile/torp that turn. Or something like that. Man im not qualified for this....

Jumpmasters - Reprint the dial and put more red on it. Reprint all the pilot cards with a smaller more logical total # of upgrades.

Everything else is fine.

I've never had enough trouble from crack shot or chips to warrant a cost increase. The other stuff would definitely make the less-used upgrades appealing.

That variation of Bomblet Generator is perfect. I thought about making it a dual card that you can flip when you reveal a dial but making it strictly alternating would be too much I think. Having it work like Rey is just right.

Just now, thespaceinvader said:

That variation of Bomblet Generator is perfect. I thought about making it a dual card that you can flip when you reveal a dial but making it strictly alternating would be too much I think. Having it work like Rey is just right.

It seemed a neat fix that Bomblet Generator has to generate bomblets.

Echoing sentiments above, I think everything works really nicely but am also confused about crackshot, at least from the perspective of desperately trying to keep the TIE swarm a thing. Unless you have a rationale for keeping the tie swarm viable in other ways?

Also I wonder if Blaster Turret might be even better with -2 (instead of just -1)? I think spending the focus to attack still really seems cost prohibitive at 3 points. But if Dorsal and Blaster turret are each 2 points then you have comparable choices: a guaranteed 3 dice attack at the cost of a focus token vs. a sometimes 3 dice attack but don't have to spend a focus to do so.

edit: I'm going to start playtesting these point changes. More data means more ways we can make this unofficially official.

The REAL question on everyone's mind is: How to fix Saboteur??

The issue with the game as it stands can't be fixed by minor point tweaks- bomblet generator and TLT would still be taken in some builds if they cost 8 as an example, or Old Zuckuss would be taken at up to 11.

The underlying rules text on the problem cards need to be addressed, and they need to be fixed before trying to buff DoA upgrades.

1 minute ago, Gibbilo said:

Echoing sentiments above, I think everything works really nicely but am also confused about crackshot, at least from the perspective of desperately trying to keep the TIE swarm a thing. Unless you have a rationale for keeping the tie swarm viable in other ways?

I love TIE Swarm, I play TIE Swarm. TIE Crack Swarm is still a thing if you want (it squeezes in at 100pts).

But I DON'T like alpha strikes as game experience, and I'd like TIE Swarms to be viable for more reasons than just 'we can bring 6 crack shots hurr durr'. I'd like to see your TIE Swarm that's running Outmaneuver instead, for instance, playing for position and barrel-rolling out of arc to strip a green dice from them to chip away over a longer and more interesting game.

Howlrunner, 5 Black Squadron, 6x 2pt Outmaneuver = 100pts. You're welcome ;-)

5 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

I love TIE Swarm, I play TIE Swarm. TIE Crack Swarm is still a thing if you want (it squeezes in at 100pts).

But I DON'T like alpha strikes as game experience, and I'd like TIE Swarms to be viable for more reasons than just 'we can bring 6 crack shots hurr durr'. I'd like to see your TIE Swarm that's running Outmaneuver instead, for instance, playing for position and barrel-rolling out of arc to strip a green dice from them to chip away over a longer and more interesting game.

Howlrunner, 5 Black Squadron, 6x 2pt Outmaneuver = 100pts. You're welcome ;-)

Make howlrunner a rage-toting youngster and I'd play it every weekend.

Although I gotta say, I love this whole list, except I agree with what was said above; wouldn't change GC, Crack, and to add to that I wouldn't change Gunner and I'd only lower Luke Skywalker by -1. Gunner and Luke are already getting passively buffed by the re-prioritization of other cards (especially PTL). If PTL now costs 4, players are going to look for new ways to get action economy; Gunner has been a staple of action economy (well, six waves ago...) so players will return to it, even at its existing cost, and use the EPT slot for other things (VI, Adaptability, even the newly-made 0-point action-economy EPTs here--Cool Hand, Adrenaline Rush, etc). A 4-point gunner in a 4-point PTL world would possibly go OP. (unless you also changed the text to match limitations on PTL, such as "if your attack misses, you may receive a stress and then perform another primary weapon attack...)

10 minutes ago, Ziusdra said:

The REAL question on everyone's mind is: How to fix Saboteur??

Remove the die roll and it's probably fine.

Any cap to the number of stored Bomblets?

I like the GC/Failsafe price switch. Failsafe seems like more fun to play with, and if you want guaranteed hit results, having to pay for it makes sense.

I'm not sure whether I think Crack Shot needs a price increase. On the one hand, you'd still be able to fit in 5x Black + Howlrunner all with CS, but I just don't know. Maybe there's a way to rework it to make it less strong. 1 point, during the modify attack dice step, you may discard to reduce enemy agility by 1? It won't always work, since your opponent will be able to modify dice afterwards. I might like that as a "Precise Shot" which could coexist with the more expensive Crack Shot which always works. One of the strengths of Crack Shot is that your opponent has to spend tokens first in suboptimal ways, and you won't ever waste it against sufficient evade results.

///

More broadly: FFG really should reconsider their "we're not changing point costs" approach to nerfs and buffs. It really would be the best solution to many things.

5 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

More broadly: FFG really should reconsider their "we're not changing point costs" approach to nerfs and buffs. It really would be the best solution to many things.

This all over.

26 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

It seemed a neat fix that Bomblet Generator has to generate bomblets.

But what about the omelette generator?

Dual sided:

Side 1: Regular or egg-white only

side 2: chose fillings:

meat- ham, bacon, sausage

cheese- cheddar, Swiss, feta

veggies: peppers, onions, mushrooms, spinach,

16 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

More broadly: FFG really should reconsider their "we're not changing point costs" approach to nerfs and buffs. It really would be the best solution to many things.

They might as well go over to a totally digital system- and make a phone/pad app that has all the cards in it. Then they could do balance changes on the fly, push updates to the app. Then all they need to focus on is the ships in packs, which I would imagine reduces a lot of paper waste.

Looks fantastic. Agree with everything. Most cost changes are similar to those I made while doing something similar a wave or so ago.

Now a couple pages worth of more buffs, then we are really cookin!

31 minutes ago, Ziusdra said:

The REAL question on everyone's mind is: How to fix Saboteur??

I really like the way that the illicit upgrades Cloaking Device and Scavenger Crane behave. They always work, but there's a chance they break. With Saboteur, if it always worked, but was discarded on an Eyeball result, that seems really nifty and thematic (the Saboteur was spotted!)

41 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

Part of the changes are dedicated at turning down alpha strike ability and increase 'TTK', just because I think it's a poor game style. It's bad for your opponent to lose a ship right from the off and I think it's forcing certain ship types out of the game (like the B-Wing) that so much up-front damage exists. At the other end of the scale I pull down the cost of Gunner & Luke because those are useful tools to keep token-stacking defenders under control. They don't necessarily buff the damage that you do (like Expertise does, for instance) but they buff the likelihood that you'll deal at least SOME damage.

So between the two ends of the scale I'm just squeezing down on the extremes of the rate of damage application - it's harder to deal lots of damage at once, and it's harder to avoid taking any damage at all.

I think until Harpoons are released, I don't think alpha strikes are the only things erasing people. Cruise Missiles still take a bit of skill to use well and the rest have been around a long time. A lot of stuff is coming from high primary weapon values and they aren't coming from Alpha Strike. The only faction that is really really benefiting from this Alpha is the Empire and they need all the help they can get. Plus, with Alpha Striking, people are throwing a lot of what they have at one ship, and if their enemies are flying more than two ships, that isn't terrible. I think Alpha Strikes are a powerful deterrent against two-ship builds, which seems to be the meta currently... But against 3 or 4 ships, those Alpha Strikes have to be well planned or are poorly spent. And then afterwards the ships can only kind of nibble at enemies and hope to stay out of arc.

I do agree with Kaptain Krunch that TLT will continue to be powerful, even if the cost went up. You probably won't see 4 TLTs, but that won't stop Nym and Miranda from taking it at all.

37 minutes ago, Ziusdra said:

The REAL question on everyone's mind is: How to fix Saboteur??

Make Saboteur assign a condition to target ship that triggers the dice roll whenever a face-down damage card is assigned to it.

4 minutes ago, Praetorate of the Empire said:

I do agree with Kaptain Krunch that TLT will continue to be powerful, even if the cost went up. You probably won't see 4 TLTs, but that won't stop Nym and Miranda from taking it at all.

On alpha-strikes you're talking about the right now, when I'm trying to tune down alpha strikes permanently. I'm not at all arsed about if it affects one faction or list more than another in this specific metagame we are in now. I want to bring back the primacy of primary weapons. Space lasers going pew pew pew, remember them?

Im sure TLT will still be good at 8pts. I'm sure Miranda and Nym will be good, but they'll be more expensive and do less after nerfs to Extra Munitions, Bomblet Generator and Sabine. So they'll hopefully be good enough to play but not so good youve no choice but to play them.

One thing that I'd like to see is on the Integrated Astromech card: add 'you may take an additional, different, modification'. IA and one of Vectored Thrusters/Engine Upgrade/Guidance Chips/Autothrusters would be far better than having to forego the 'fix' card in order to be able to do something useful!