Just now, LuceLineGames said:

I don't think this is correct at all, this doesn't change the rules of the game that requires you to break 3 to go after the stronghold??

Ok let me clarify, no the talisman does not actually force you to break all 5, however when do you ever try to win the game by attacking the stronghold with less than it takes to break it?

Example: you are playing Lion, I'm playing Unicorn. We trade back.and forth breaking each other's non stronghold provinces. We have both broken 3 if each other's non stronghold provinces. You have the first player token and you declare an attack against my stronghold. I use the talisman to move the battle to my last unbroken non-stronghold province. You break it but do not win the game.......giving me an opportunity to break your Stronghold.

4 minutes ago, Zesu Shadaban said:

Since it's an attachment, you can use the ability once per round for as long as the attachment remains in play and unbowed. HOWEVER! It's unique, so you can only have one copy in play at a time. It only swaps provinces for one conflict per round. So it can be played around if the opponent can declare a second conflict that round. Or, if the opponent can find a way to bow the attachment before its ability can be used. Or, if the opponent has Let Go or other attachment discard tech to play.

So really, you *might* get your opponent to waste effort breaking 5 provinces, but a smart opponent will find a way to play around this.

Ok, this is how I thought it works, but not what others were saying.

Quote

Ok let me clarify, no the talisman does not actually force you to break all 5, however when do you ever try to win the game by attacking the stronghold with less than it takes to break it?

Every time I play Unicorn.

7 minutes ago, Zesu Shadaban said:

Since it's an attachment, you can use the ability once per round for as long as the attachment remains in play and unbowed. HOWEVER! It's unique, so you can only have one copy in play at a time. It only swaps provinces for one conflict per round. So it can be played around if the opponent can declare a second conflict that round. Or, if the opponent can find a way to bow the attachment before its ability can be used. Or, if the opponent has Let Go or other attachment discard tech to play.

So really, you *might* get your opponent to waste effort breaking 5 provinces, but a smart opponent will find a way to play around this.

At the very least it's a threat attachment that eats a let go so my Spyglass can stay in play and bury my opponent in hand advantage.

Besides it's the fricken Ruby of Iuchiban .........heck yeah I'm playing that thing......and attaching it to my Goblin Sneak!

Just now, LuceLineGames said:

Ok, this is how I thought it works, but not what others were saying.

Every time I play Unicorn.

wait you win playing Unicorn?

The point is that the opponent can usually attack the stronghold, burn resources to grab it, only to have the Unicorn switch it for the 4th province the moment it looks like they could lose the province, meaning the effort was a waste.

You have to either wait for the attachment to leave play or burn that 4th province before being able to fully commit, which can buy the Unicorn enough time to muster and win themselves.

6 minutes ago, Ishi Tonu said:

Ok let me clarify, no the talisman does not actually force you to break all 5, however when do you ever try to win the game by attacking the stronghold with less than it takes to break it?

Example: you are playing Lion, I'm playing Unicorn. We trade back.and forth breaking each other's non stronghold provinces. We have both broken 3 if each other's non stronghold provinces. You have the first player token and you declare an attack against my stronghold. I use the talisman to move the battle to my last unbroken non-stronghold province. You break it but do not win the game.......giving me an opportunity to break your Stronghold.

You have to be the attacking player to use it though...so this doesn't work. If I am attacking the unicorn player they cannot move the conflict.

Just now, TheItsyBitsySpider said:

The point is that the opponent can usually attack the stronghold, burn resources to grab it, only to have the Unicorn switch it for the 4th province the moment it looks like they could lose the province, meaning the effort was a waste.

You have to either wait for the attachment to leave play or burn that 4th province before being able to fully commit, which can buy the Unicorn enough time to muster and win themselves.

This does actually seem really powerful. Is this enough for Unicorn to be competitive?

1 minute ago, Jemmers said:

You have to be the attacking player to use it though...so this doesn't work. If I am attacking the unicorn player they cannot move the conflict.

That's chasing the Sun. Talisman is when you're the defender.

1 minute ago, Jemmers said:

You have to be the attacking player to use it though...so this doesn't work. If I am attacking the unicorn player they cannot move the conflict.

Depending on their role, they have both. Seeker role gives them an event to switch provinces as the attacker, Keeper role gives them an attachment to switch provinces as the defender.

EDIT: I understand the confusion though since this thread was started to discuss the card for attacking, not the one for defending.

2 minutes ago, LuceLineGames said:

This does actually seem really powerful. Is this enough for Unicorn to be competitive?

Considering your getting 6 new characters and 6 new conflict cards... almost certainly! I mean, the magistrate alone will make Unicorn more competitive. And the Holding is going to be swell.

5 minutes ago, TheItsyBitsySpider said:

Considering your getting 6 new characters and 6 new conflict cards... almost certainly! I mean, the magistrate alone will make Unicorn more competitive. And the Holding is going to be swell.

The holding "Here, I have 2 fate, you have 2 fate" It's both awesome and evil at the same time.

2 minutes ago, RandomJC said:

The holding "Here, I have 2 fate, you have 2 fate" It's both awesome and evil at the same time.

It basically says "You may run only 37 cards in your dynasty deck... oh, and you wont lose to dishonor pretty much ever."

2 minutes ago, TheItsyBitsySpider said:

It basically says "You may run only 37 cards in your dynasty deck... oh, and you wont lose to dishonor pretty much ever."

The honor boost is also nice. but I hate giving my opponent that boost. It's the *** part of that card.

Chasing the Sun does seem pretty awful. It would be better if it was a reaction to province reveal, thus avoiding negative actions (Shameful Display, Meditations, etc.), or if you had a character who gave first action to the attacker. Maybe the latter is coming? As a former Mantis/Unicorn player, I would certainly appreciate Naval AND Cavalry in the same faction.

11 hours ago, Fumo said:

Is it just me or does this seem... awful? I mean what's the point?

Sure, there are other cards to be revealed in the Cycle that might make this good, but at the moment it just seems to expose you to the risk of triggering another harmful province ability.

I think it could be useful for an early conflict just to reveal another province.

10 hours ago, RandomJC said:

The honor boost is also nice. but I hate giving my opponent that boost. It's the *** part of that card.

That's what makes this holding awesome. The choice. If your opponent is not remotely near an honor victory, give him 2 Honor. If he's close to 20+, give him 2 fate if you really need to flip through your dynasty.

Or do nothing and discard it during the regroup phase.

I can imagine a player not defending (because the attacked province is e.g. Night Raid or so, or because he wants to save his characters for other purposes), then being blown out when I change the conflict to his already revealed (but unbroken) Shameful Display.

3 hours ago, Casanunda said:

Naval AND Cavalry in the same faction.

Seahorses? Giant seahorses?

2 hours ago, Ser Nakata said:

That's what makes this holding awesome. The choice. If your opponent is not remotely near an honor victory, give him 2 Honor. If he's close to 20+, give him 2 fate if you really need to flip through your dynasty.

Or do nothing and discard it during the regroup phase.

I like The Perfect Gift because at the very least, I get to peek into my opponent's deck and get to choose what he gets. The new Unicorn holding is just total positive effect for the opponent. Extra fate is always good. Extra honor is, at least, extra assasinations/banzais. Much like The Perfect Gift, it's a matter of getting more mileage out of it than our opponent. Risky business.

I'll be honest, if Forgotten Library wasn't such a good holding, I'd be kinda jealous. Who would have thought a filthy yurt could be so valuable?

Chasing the sun is perfect for unicorn because you can declare with 1 attacker, move to a different province and then move a character or 2 in!

The rules say that you must declare an attack on an unbroken province. But doesn't say that a broken province can not be attacked iirc, it says that is can not be declared during the declaration subphase. If it's like that, we'll need some clarification also, this could lead to divert all attacks to already broken provinces.

4 hours ago, Ser Nakata said:

That's what makes this holding awesome. The choice. If your opponent is not remotely near an honor victory, give him 2 Honor. If he's close to 20+, give him 2 fate if you really need to flip through your dynasty.

Or do nothing and discard it during the regroup phase.

...i feel you and I have different definition of Awesome*.

Unicorn seems to get the most awesome traits for their cards. Gaijin? Check. Meishodo? Check. Quest? Check.

18 hours ago, Zesu Shadaban said:

a smart opponent will find a way to play around this.

I believe that's the motto of the unicorn clan.

20 hours ago, LuceLineGames said:

I don't think this is correct at all, this doesn't change the rules of the game that requires you to break 3 to go after the stronghold??

True, they don't have to break that 4th non-stronghold province. They can just keep attacking into the stronghold and having their more favorable of their two attacks turned away to that other province. It's a choice I would personally encourage any opponent to make.