I have to say, the reward card "Lessons of History" is one of my favorite card titles. It's very... self aware.

11 minutes ago, Uninvited Guest said:

I have to say, the reward card "Lessons of History" is one of my favorite card titles. It's very... self aware.

That card, alongside with "Inside Source" could potentially be pretty debilitating. If the Rebels managed to find a way to reduce the threat level during a critical trigger that utilizes it, they could really do some damage.

14 minutes ago, subtrendy2 said:

That card, alongside with "Inside Source" could potentially be pretty debilitating. If the Rebels managed to find a way to reduce the threat level during a critical trigger that utilizes it, they could really do some damage.

It's until the end of round though, so it only applies to threat from bonuses that happen at the start of the status phase and the regular threat increase.

So how does Lessons of History work with things like the ubiquitous officer who gains health equal to twice the threat level? Does his health dip down for a turn and then back up? Or does it get set when you deploy him and then stay the same after that?

I'm thinking that it would change and then change back (same with the health of doors/terminals/etc.) but it's sort of ambiguous.

27 minutes ago, ManateeX said:

So how does Lessons of History work with things like the ubiquitous officer who gains health equal to twice the threat level? Does his health dip down for a turn and then back up? Or does it get set when you deploy him and then stay the same after that?

I'm thinking that it would change and then change back (same with the health of doors/terminals/etc.) but it's sort of ambiguous.

I'm not sure, but I think if it was a miniboss where it was worded " gains health equal to the threat level", then the threat level at the time this trigger occurs would determine the health that he gains. If it was worded "Health is equal to the threat level", then I'd say that it'd dip for the turn.

Curious how others would interpret that, though.

THANK YOU DEADWOLF!!!!!! AND ARMANDHAMMER!!!!! AND USAFMUNK!!!!!!

Having looked only at the item cards, I'm very intrigued...

1. So I was wrong. I never thought they'd make a double-Red dice melee weapon with a mod slot, but I'm very happy the Polearm exists. It's the optimal Vibrogenerator platform: super dependable damage (a 1-in-36 damage floor of 4 damage, 5-in-36 chance of 5 or more damage, tons of 6-8 damage results), very little chance of paying the full surge cost for the Vibrogenerator (1-in-36, assuming the target rolls no Evades). And with Reach , no less.

2. The A-12 Sniper Rifle looks really strong, as well. I believe it's the first three-dice weapon with two mod slots and a set dice pool (I.e., you don't need a strong Tech pool to use it), has solid damage-dealing surge abilities (+2D, Pierce 2), a nice "overflow" surge ability (gain 1 surge power token), and one situationally fantastic surge ability (surge for -1 Dodge). With two slots and a Blue-Blue-Yellow base, there are tons of permutations out there. Disruption cell (RBB) + Plasma Cell ( Pierce 1 , surge for +1D) or Sniper Scope (free surge when attacking from 5+ spaces away, with a base accuracy of 6 with the Disruption Cell ) look particularly strong. It's basically a Vaulken at that point, but with extra goodies (and the potential to remove Dodge).

3. I was really hoping Melee weapons would get an attachment that would Pierce or remove a Dodge, and the Focusing Beam does both. I'm not a huge fan of the "exhaust-to-use" penalty, but it's a very cheap 250 credits. I could see it as a secondary attachment on a cheap two-mod weapon like the Vibrosword with either the Balanced Hilt (to get that +2D to fire) or the Vibrogenerator (since the odds of a double-surge on a Green-Blue aren't that great), and pairing with the Vibrosword's "strain to Pierce 1 " ability to gut defense dice (without having to strain all the time). And for once, melee weapons get a mod advantage over ranged weapons (any melee weapon with a mod slot can now exhaust and strain to remove a Dodge), so that's encouraging.

4. I was a little skeptical about the Responsive Armor when I first saw it, but now that I know it's just 250 credits, I think it's fantastic . It's +2 health (or a health offset if you take the mechanical hand for some extra endurance), and considering that same health boost costs at least 500 credits ( Combat Coat ) or 2+ xp, getting it for the cost of five crates seems like a great deal. And while not every weapon or hero will generate enough surges to make the "surge for a Block or Evade power token" ability go, I could see it being a major boon to those that can. Cheap +2 health armor that adds a surge ability for a Block or Evade token--and potentially one of each if you trigger the ability twice--seems tailor made for someone like a non-"Fell Swoop" Davith who wants to be in-close but is generally damaged easily.

5. I'm not 100% sure what the cost is on the Power Charger (400 credits?), but the ability to add +2P isn't a small thing, and the ability to add +2 surges is potentially seismic , even if it's just once per activation. Ancient Lightsaber anyone?

16 minutes ago, Rythbryt said:

2. The A-12 Sniper Rifle looks really strong, as well. I believe it's the first three-dice weapon with two mod slots and a set dice pool (I.e., you don't need a strong Tech pool to use it), has solid damage-dealing surge abilities (+2D, Pierce 2), a nice "overflow" surge ability (gain 1 surge power token), and one situationally fantastic surge ability (surge for -1 Dodge). With two slots and a Blue-Blue-Yellow base, there are tons of permutations out there. Disruption cell (RBB) + Plasma Cell ( Pierce 1 , surge for +1D) or Sniper Scope (free surge when attacking from 5+ spaces away, with a base accuracy of 6 with the Disruption Cell ) look particularly strong. It's basically a Vaulken at that point, but with extra goodies (and the potential to remove Dodge).

Yeah I feel like the Imp have a real disincentive to pick Reactive Defense deck because it's pretty much entirely built around the companion 88-Z and Rebels can consistently remove 88-Z once they get that. I'm not sure...maybe it's intentional?

1 hour ago, ricope said:

Yeah I feel like the Imp have a real disincentive to pick Reactive Defense deck because it's pretty much entirely built around the companion 88-Z and Rebels can consistently remove 88-Z once they get that. I'm not sure...maybe it's intentional?

I think the reprieve is that that won't be an issue until tier 3. There are... 3(?) cards in the deck that can only be used with 88-Z, so hopefully by the time you're that far along you have a few that don't need him. So you can factor it into your strategy at that point.

Deploy to where the sniper has to perform a move to draw LOS so they can only get one shot off. If they go for it focus that character down with your hitters, if they don't then 88-Z* gets to go.

*he needs a nickname, right? 8's? EightZ?

1 hour ago, Uninvited Guest said:

I think the reprieve is that that won't be an issue until tier 3. There are... 3(?) cards in the deck that can only be used with 88-Z, so hopefully by the time you're that far along you have a few that don't need him. So you can factor it into your strategy at that point.

Deploy to where the sniper has to perform a move to draw LOS so they can only get one shot off. If they go for it focus that character down with your hitters, if they don't then 88-Z* gets to go.

*he needs a nickname, right? 8's? EightZ?

Yeah but that one shot is enough, especially considering Overclock (4xp card) is literally useless without 88-Z on board and Targeting sensors (the other 4xp card) is even worse than Military Might's free starter if there's no 88-Z

I feel like this is where we might need houserules: if we all agree to remove that sniper from lv.3 item pile then I'll play Reactive Defense, otherwise I'll definitely be playing another class deck

eight-zy bitsy sounds like a good nickname though, 88-Z overall is going to be extremely annoying

1 hour ago, ricope said:

Yeah but that one shot is enough,

I meant they don't have any actions left to take another figure off the board. They fire one shot and they get a companion off the board; and while it is a critical figure, they're giving up their first activation just to do it. Your goal at that point is to make that character withdraw.

The Rebels still have to decide if they should go for the hitters or the support. And since he deploys for free they'd be dedicating one activation to doing that every round. Can that be an effective strategy for them in the long run? I mean, the class deck is weakened but it's up against three activations being put towards the objective every round.

I really don't know how it will go, but I'd be interested in taking on that challenge.

26 minutes ago, Uninvited Guest said:

I meant they don't have any actions left to take another figure off the board. They fire one shot and they get a companion off the board; and while it is a critical figure, they're giving up their first activation just to do it. Your goal at that point is to make that character withdraw.

The Rebels still have to decide if they should go for the hitters or the support. And since he deploys for free they'd be dedicating one activation to doing that every round. Can that be an effective strategy for them in the long run? I mean, the class deck is weakened but it's up against three activations being put towards the objective every round.

I really don't know how it will go, but I'd be interested in taking on that challenge.

Yeah, the fact that he deploys for free, and you have some options for moving him that let him stay in a hard-to-reach spot for a while means that killing him will not always be the best strategy, even if you can. Frankly, if the Rebels have Tier III weapons and they have to spend their first big attack each round killing a free unit (and one that might not be in an easy-to-attack spot), they are going to get hit pretty hard by the units that come out with the high threat level at that point in the campaign. Basically, your class card would become: "At the start of each round, the hero holding the Sniper rifle becomes Stunned"

10 hours ago, Deadwolf said:

The thing i like about Vibro-Claws with Leaping Strike is that you will be able to use the damage token in the main attack. 1 strain for 2 movement and a weaker attack is a fair deal but it does kind of pale compared to Mak's No Escape.

My main issue with it is the Pierce 2 surge does not synergize with the passive Pierce 1 from J4X-7. 2 +1 dmg surges would have been way better. No mod slot slot doesnt help either.

Then just upgrade him to a +1 Damage

5 hours ago, Rythbryt said:

1. So I was wrong. I never thought they'd make a double-Red dice melee weapon with a mod slot, but I'm very happy the Polearm exists. It's the optimal Vibrogenerator platform: super dependable damage (a 1-in-36 damage floor of 4 damage, 5-in-36 chance of 5 or more damage, tons of 6-8 damage results), very little chance of paying the full surge cost for the Vibrogenerator (1-in-36, assuming the target rolls no Evades). And with Reach , no less.

Yeah, that thing is the scariest card in the whole box

Give Davith Falling Leaf, Polearm, and the High-Impact Guard, and he's basically Vader

7 minutes ago, Stompburger said:

Then just upgrade him to a +1 Damage

That requires Jarrod's mission. I picked up Vibrosword for Jarrod, that solves the issue (mostly).

The Polearm w/ Vibrogenerator does low tier 3 levels of damage. It is pretty good for the cost, but it is outclassed by the most powerful tier 3 weapons.
Polearm w/ guard is decent, on par with what is typical for tier 2, tho in tier 2 you are probably best off just using hilt on it and going for the cleave.

I'd like some clarification.

88-Z isn't a "1-and-done" per mission, right?

I feel like you can bring can bring it back after being defeated thanks to the second ability of the starting class card, Active Surveillance:

Quote

At the star of each mission, deploy 88-Z.

------------------

Exhaust this card during an optional deployment to deploy 88-Z.

------------------

88-Z activates at the start or end of an imperial Activation.

But...

88-Z is a unique figure. This means that it cannot be redeployed for the remainder of the mission once defeated (Allies, page 4). Right?

Hmm.

I guess this type of thinking can be extended to Jarrod's Droid Mastery ability: Jax is a unique figure as well, can he be brought back in the same mission once he is defeated?

41 minutes ago, Stompburger said:

Yeah, the fact that he deploys for free, and you have some options for moving him that let him stay in a hard-to-reach spot for a while means that killing him will not always be the best strategy, even if you can. Frankly, if the Rebels have Tier III weapons and they have to spend their first big attack each round killing a free unit (and one that might not be in an easy-to-attack spot), they are going to get hit pretty hard by the units that come out with the high threat level at that point in the campaign. Basically, your class card would become: "At the start of each round, the hero holding the Sniper rifle becomes Stunned"

Wow I just had another look, apparently Rebel will have access to -dodge starting tier 2 (not 3) because of that Focusing Beam

2 minutes ago, Armandhammer said:

88-Z isn't a "1-and-done" per mission, right?

Correct, you can always bring him back next round even if he's dead, although I'm not sure about the tradeoffs here: ok fine 1/4 Rebel activation was basically wasted if the one holding -dodge weapon decides to go after 88-Z, but that also means the entire class deck will be significantly weakened because 88-Z won't be back until next round (so those cards won't be very useful this round). Don't forget Rebel gets 1st activation each round anyway so they can just keep removing 88-Z

31 minutes ago, ricope said:

Correct, you can always bring him back next round even if he's dead, although I'm not sure about the tradeoffs here: ok fine 1/4 Rebel activation was basically wasted if the one holding -dodge weapon decides to go after 88-Z, but that also means the entire class deck will be significantly weakened because 88-Z won't be back until next round (so those cards won't be very useful this round). Don't forget Rebel gets 1st activation each round anyway so they can just keep removing 88-Z

Eh, the Rebels still need to draw the card plus they gotta have enough credits to buy it.

And I think a wasted action in later mission stages is a huge deal. If the Rebels wanna prioritize 88-Z it just means more Imperial units ready to fire back.

And I still don't get why one can't bring back Greedo once defeated but it's okay to bring back 88-Z.

Page 4 of the RRG clearly states:

Quote

When an ally is defeated, it is removed from the map and cannot be redeployed for the remainder of the mission

To me, cannot be redeployed overrules deployment via threat and abilities.

It seems obvious in 88-Z's case that he can be brought back thanks to Active Surveillance.

Not so much in Jax's case.

I'm only confused cause this is my first time dealing with unique companions.

To me, companions are not allies, therefore are not held to the same restrictions.

53 minutes ago, Deadwolf said:

The Polearm w/ Vibrogenerator does low tier 3 levels of damage. It is pretty good for the cost, but it is outclassed by the most powerful tier 3 weapons.
Polearm w/ guard is decent, on par with what is typical for tier 2, tho in tier 2 you are probably best off just using hilt on it and going for the cleave.

I haven't run the maths yet on the Polearm , although it's not remarkably complicated to ball-park it given that two red dice plus two static damage are incredibly predictable. Low of 4 (R-1D, R-1D, VibroG- +2D), high of 8 (R-3D, R-3D, VibroG- +2D), and most dice rolls (31 of 36 possible roll combos, I believe) smashed in the 5-7D range.

As far as how it compares to Tier III weapons, I think it really depends. In terms of top-end burst damage, it probably is outclassed by a fully-kited out Tier III melee weapon, although my initial tests with Matt Yellen's calculator suggest the Polearm with the Vibrogenerator is slightly more powerful than a naked Electrostaff (which is a really good weapon, even with no mods on it), for a total upgrade cost of 1000 credits (instead of 1250 + whatever the Electrostaff's mod costs), and of course no Cleave 2 (though it does have Reach ). Adding a mod like the Vibrogenerator or Shock Emitter to the Electrostaff bumps it above the Polearm to be sure... but at 1600-1750 credits, it certainly should.

The Polearm is also not as good against Black Dice as the Ancient Lightsaber with the Balanced Hilt (no melee weapon is, other than perhaps Davith's Shrouded Lightsaber firing at peak efficiency). But my guess at this stage is that that's because the Lightsaber has an easier time pushing damage through when it can Pierce 3 . I suspect the Polearm is probably rolling at least the same amount of damage icons as the Lightsaber if not more (if you include damage icons from the Vibrogenerator ). A Red-Red- VibroG should end up with 6 or more damage icons the vast majority of the time. That's an average of 2 damage per die, which is a tall order even for a Red-Green-Blue pool (though doable, especially if the Blue or Green die lands a damage-surge) and a very tall order for a Yellow-Green-Blue. But the Pierce 3 allows the Lightsaber to get more damage past a black die even if it rolls a lower amount of damage (a 6D roll vs. 3 blocks nets 3 damage; a 4D roll with Pierce 3 vs. 3 Blocks nets 4 damage).

To that end, the Yellen sims also show the Polearm doing essentially the same damage against a White die as the Lightsaber with Balanced Hilt does when rolling Red-Green-Blue (again, suggesting the Pierce 3 is the difference against the Black), and that the Polearm is actually better against White dice if the Lightsaber is rolling Yellow-Green-Blue with the Balanced Hilt . And if the Balanced Hilt is exhausted (which it has to be to be used), the Polearm + Vibrogenerator is just as good vs. Black dice as the Red-Green-Blue Lightsaber , better vs. White dice than the RGB Lightsaber , and better vs. Black or White dice than the YGB Lightsaber . So again, the advantages to the Polearm are certainty (because its dice pool is set, there's no fluctuation to damage depending on how many insight dice we have, or whether we're wounded or not), predictability (if we don't roll a single-damage on either Red die, which we have a better than 80% chance on each die not to do, we're guaranteed to hit at least 6 total damage), and sustainability (no exhaust-to-use parts). Plus it's cheaper. And has Reach . Which is why I'm not certain it's outclassed by Tier III weapons... certainly not Tier III weapons that are in the same price ballpark.

But again, all this data is preliminary.

I think the better point of comparison is the BD-1 + Vibrogenerator + Extended Haft , which is a solid mostly-Tier-II sustainable, predictable melee weapon (static +2D, static Pierce 1 ) with Reach . The problem with that weapon is that it costs a ton for a Tier II weapon (1300 credits). The Polearm does essentially the same damage (1-2% less vs. Black, 1-2% more vs. White) for just 1000 credits. And since the Polearm theoretically has the ability to Cleave 2 as well, there sadly doesn't seem to be much reason to take the BD-1 over it (other than the option for that second mod-slot, which gives the BD-1 a higher upgrade ceiling as more melee mods are added, creating more mod synergies). Which kind of marks the end of an era...

12 minutes ago, Rythbryt said:

I haven't run the maths yet on the Polearm , although it's not remarkably complicated given that two red dice plus two static damage are incredibly predictable. Low of 4, high of 8, and most dice rolls (31 of 36 possible roll combos, I believe) smashed in the 5-7D range.

As far as how it compares to Tier III weapons, I think it really depends. In terms of top-end burst damage, it probably is outclassed by a fully-kited out Tier III melee weapon, although my initial tests with Matt Yellen's calculator suggest the Polearm with the Vibrogenerator is slightly more powerful than a naked Electrostaff (which is a really good weapon, even with no mods on it), for a total upgrade cost of 1000 credits (instead of 1250 + whatever the Electrostaff's mod costs), and of course no Cleave 2 (though it does have Reach ). Adding a mod like the Vibrogenerator or Shock Emitter to the Electrostaff bumps it above the Polearm to be sure... but at 1600-1750 credits, it certainly should.

The Polearm is also not as good against Black Dice as the Ancient Lightsaber with the Balanced Hilt (no melee weapon is, other than Davith's Shrouded Lightsaber firing at peak efficiency). But my guess is that that's because the Lightsaber has an easier time pushing damage through when it can Pierce 3 . I suspect the Polearm is probably rolling at least the same amount of damage icons as the Lightsaber (if you include damage icons from the Vibrogenerator ), as a Red-Red- VibroG should end up with 6 or more damage icons the vast majority of the time (32/36 rolls, I think). That's an average of 2 damage per die, which is a tall order even for a Red-Green-Blue pool (and a very tall order for a Yellow-Green-Blue). But the Pierce 3 allows the Lightsaber to get more damage past a black die even if it rolls a lower amount of damage (a 6D roll vs. 3 blocks nets 3 damage; a 4D roll with Pierce 3 vs. 3 Blocks nets 4 damage).

The Yellen sims also show the Polearm doing essentially the same damage against a White die as the Lightsaber with Balanced Hilt does when rolling Red-Green-Blue (again, suggesting the Pierce 3 is the difference against the Black), and that the Polearm is actually better against White dice if the Lightsaber is rolling Yellow-Green-Blue. And if the Balanced Hilt is exhausted (which it has to be to be used), the Polearm + Vibrogenerator is just as good vs. Black dice as the Red-Green-Blue Lightsaber , better vs. White dice than the RGB Lightsaber , and better vs. Black or White dice than the YGB Lightsaber . So again, the advantage to the Polearm is certainty (because its dice pool is set, there's no fluctuation to damage depending on how many insight dice we have, or whether we're wounded or not), predictability (a 32/36 chance of rolling at least 6 damage with the Vibrogenerator damage), and sustainability (no exhaust-to-use parts). Plus it's cheaper. And has Reach . Which is why I'm not certain it's outclassed by Tier III weapons... certainly not Tier III weapons that are in the same price ballpark.

But again, all this data is preliminary.

I think the better point of comparison is the BD-1 + Vibrogenerator + Extended Haft , which is a solid mostly-Tier-II sustainable, predictable melee weapon (static +2D, static Pierce 1 ) with Reach . The problem with that weapon is that it costs a ton for a Tier II weapon (1300 credits). The Polearm does essentially the same damage (1-2% less vs. Black, 1-2% more vs. White) for just 1000 credits. And since the Polearm theoretically has the ability to Cleave 2 as well, there sadly doesn't seem to be much reason to take the BD-1 over it (other than the option for that second mod-slot, which gives the BD-1 a higher upgrade ceiling as more melee mods are added, creating more mod synergies). Which kind of marks the end of an era...

• 
  

You basically said the same thing I did. Polearm+Vibrogenerator is great for its cost but Electrostaff w/ mod and Lightsaber w/ mod are superior (except in the white die scenario but there are very few white die imperial units) and typically by time you get Electrostaff or Lightsaber, you already have a mod for it.

1 hour ago, Stompburger said:

Yeah, that thing is the scariest card in the whole box

Give Davith Falling Leaf, Polearm, and the High-Impact Guard, and he's basically Vader

Great point. The Red-Red-Yellow opens up all sorts of possibilities. I'm intrigued to see what Davith's odds are of getting Cleave 2 + Cleave 1 + Cleave 1 with the Weighted Head equipped and Reach bolstering the range of his Cleaves , especially if he's Hidden to start with.

12 minutes ago, Deadwolf said:

You basically said the same thing I did. Polearm+Vibrogenerator is great for its cost but Electrostaff w/ mod and Lightsaber w/ mod are superior (except in the white die scenario but there are very few white die imperial units) and typically by time you get Electrostaff or Lightsaber, you already have a mod for it.

Glad we're in agreement then

Some things to note in the campaign. There are choices in how you progress in the campaign. Also I am not sure if this was in Jabbas Realm, but some missions involve hidden terrain that is shown as a mission progresses.

4 hours ago, Armandhammer said:

88-Z is a unique figure. This means that it cannot be redeployed for the remainder of the mission once defeated (Allies, page 4). Right?

I guess this type of thinking can be extended to Jarrod's Droid Mastery ability: Jax is a unique figure as well, can he be brought back in the same mission once he is defeated?

Unique deployment cards do not return to the IP's hand, and defeated villains cannot be redeployed by any means in the same mission.

Companions do not have deployment cards. Companions are not allies, rebels do not take them into a mission and give threat to IP.

Also, if an effect explicitly deploys a companion, it is performed, because abilities on cards override rules on the rulebook(s).

If a rule in this guide contradicts a rule in the Learn to Play
booklet or Skirmish Guide, the rule in this reference guide takes
priority.

Card abilities can override the rules listed in this guide. Mission
rules can override both card abilities and rules from this guide.

If a card or mission uses the word cannot, that effect is absolute
and cannot be overridden by other effects.

5 hours ago, Deadwolf said:

You basically said the same thing I did. Polearm+Vibrogenerator is great for its cost but Electrostaff w/ mod and Lightsaber w/ mod are superior (except in the white die scenario but there are very few white die imperial units) and typically by time you get Electrostaff or Lightsaber, you already have a mod for it.

Don't underestimate how important cost efficiency is though. Being able to pick up a powerful and cheap weapon means more credits that are put toward other upgrades, and it means you can get it earlier in the campaign when it will have higher impact. So the fact that you can get this for so cheap, and in Tier II, is what makes it so powerful.