As a side note, in different video games, the bowcaster could be charged to give a stronger shot. I'm not sure if this is taken into account through the movie or if it was just some innacurate representation.

While I do think Rey does fall into the classic "Mary Sue" trope, it is not as bad as the first viewing. (I will argue that she still is a "Mary Sue" but for many of her accomplishments there is an explanation.)

For flying:
-She is force sensitive to begin with.
-She is a pilot, but never piloted anything outside of the atmosphere.
-She knows the terrain of Jakku.

With that being said, I still find it hard to believe she out flew trained TIE fighter pilots with a freighter that she had never flown before, even if it was the Millennium Falcon. Force sensitivity only brings you so far.

For Mechanical Skills:
-She is a scavenger
-The added compression coil was discussed before hand, before it interfered with the hyperdrive. She knew why it was on there and discussed it as one of the modified things on the Falcon. It could easily slipped Han's mind. He had not seen the ship in years, and I doubt he was thinking "what has been modified" while trying to escape.

I give Rey this one, I find her mechanical skills fine for what we saw on film

Melee Fighting Kylo
-She obviously has defended herself on Jakku when Finn met her.
-Kylo Ren took a Bow Caster hit. They made a point of it being a pretty meaty weapon through out the film.

With an injured Kylo, her being decent at fighting as shown, I could buy this.

Force Powers

Nope, I did not like the mind trick with Daniel Craig or her grabbing the lightsaber and over powering Kylo's ability. It just seemed too quick and unnaturally fast.

Each one of these things would be fine if it was on its own, heck even two out of the four would have been fine. All of them combined had me cringing by the end. Really, she should have lost the fight at the end for storytelling purposes, separated by the destruction of Starkiller base. It just makes more sense story-wise if you know there is going to be a sequel. Imagine her giving Luke a broken hilt of the lightsaber. It sets up her to be a student, it sets Kylo Ren up as a bad *** and the overall story would not have been altered. Oh, and the emotional validation Rey gets from other characters through out the film also adds to the Mary Sue effect.

All that being said, I did like the character of Rey, Daisy Ridley did a great job and brought charm to the character.

Oh, and on topic, TIE Swarms I would like OP.

8 minutes ago, Jadotch said:

With that being said, I still find it hard to believe she out flew trained TIE fighter pilots with a freighter that she had never flown before, even if it was the Millennium Falcon. Force sensitivity only brings you so far.

Well, under this point, look back at Luke. He was a talented pilot and force sensitive, but him being able to just jump in an X-Wing and hang with the best pilots the Rebellion had to offer, even outlasting most of them, is rather similar to what Rey did. Up until that point, I believe his flying experience was purely atmospheric in a more civilian based craft.

12 minutes ago, Jadotch said:

Force Powers

Nope, I did not like the mind trick with Daniel Craig or her grabbing the lightsaber and over powering Kylo's ability. It just seemed too quick and unnaturally fast.

There can be explanations of this, though most of the simple ones are more justification rather than good reasons. Best case scenario, something in her past helps explains her affinity.

A lot of Rey is riding on how well they can expand and explain her in the next two movies and/or other material. I'm okay with everything about a character not being spelled out in the first installment of something, but a proper explanation is needed at some point.

43 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

Well, under this point, look back at Luke. He was a talented pilot and force sensitive, but him being able to just jump in an X-Wing and hang with the best pilots the Rebellion had to offer, even outlasting most of them, is rather similar to what Rey did. Up until that point, I believe his flying experience was purely atmospheric in a more civilian based craft.

I see your points, but in A New Hope piloting is the ONLY thing Luke has an uncanny talent for. During the film he was at least a better than average pilot, just no one took him seriously. Off the top of my head, bargaining with Han for a ride he states he is not a half bad pilot himself, when discussing the Death Star's ventilation shaft, Wedge freakin Antilles said it was impossible, Luke mentions bulls eyeing Whomp Rats like it is no big of deal. Biggs vouches for him in one of the Special Edition cuts saying something like Luke is the best Bush Pilot in the outer territories, and then going to the Trench he declares it is like Beggar's Canyon back home. (ot that that has much to do with Dog Fighting itself, but he definitely was a pretty good pilot.)

Plus he has Obi Wan's voice helping him out during the battle. Also, Vader would have taken out Luke if Han had not came back to save the day.

It just felt more natural than Rey saying that she is a pilot while running a way from an attack. (It sounded more out of desperation.)

Rey's fight at the end makes more sense to me than what she did flying the Falcon through the Star Destroyer, because it was hinted at that she was not bad at hand to hand combat.

Quote

A lot of Rey is riding on how well they can expand and explain her in the next two movies and/or other material. I'm okay with everything about a character not being spelled out in the first installment of something, but a proper explanation is needed at some point.

I 100% agree here. If she is a reincarnated Anakin like some theorize I will buy it, or if they make a great case for her.

6 hours ago, Fuzzywookie said:

Raider.

YES, YES!

Although the conundrum is that once something is OP, I won't touch it. So stay away from my TIE interceptors and TIE strikers!

SLAVE 1!!

I want the Slave 1 to be the monster of a ship it is in AotC.

I want to be able to drop seismic charges, launch concussion missiles, and fire heavy repeating cannons ALL AT ONCE!

I jest of course. OP ships are never fun, but the Slave 1 is an injustice to my 'bois' Boba and Jango.

10 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

None, absolutely none

Nothing ruins the charm of anything more than seeing it every **** time and every **** where once people realize they get easier wins with it

10 hours ago, Giledhil said:

None.

10 hours ago, Managarmr said:

None. Ruins the game and the ship in question.

8 hours ago, enigmahfc said:

prefer none,

5 hours ago, takfar said:

Silly question. None. All ships should have a balanced points cost based on their stats, dial, abilities and potential.

The failure to approach that ideal is what leads to op-ness, repetitive gameplay and frustration.

Boy, now I understand why I don't see more creativity out here.

Since I have been asked to dream a little dream, I would go for Darth Maul in his Sith Infiltrator. Kinda always been my favorite Sith, and his ship looks cool to boot.

Firespray and tie defender.

4 hours ago, Jadotch said:

While I do think Rey does fall into the classic "Mary Sue" trope, it is not as bad as the first viewing. (I will argue that she still is a "Mary Sue" but for many of her accomplishments there is an explanation.)

For flying:
-She is force sensitive to begin with.
-She is a pilot, but never piloted anything outside of the atmosphere.
-She knows the terrain of Jakku.

With that being said, I still find it hard to believe she out flew trained TIE fighter pilots with a freighter that she had never flown before, even if it was the Millennium Falcon. Force sensitivity only brings you so far.

For Mechanical Skills:
-She is a scavenger
-The added compression coil was discussed before hand, before it interfered with the hyperdrive. She knew why it was on there and discussed it as one of the modified things on the Falcon. It could easily slipped Han's mind. He had not seen the ship in years, and I doubt he was thinking "what has been modified" while trying to escape.

I give Rey this one, I find her mechanical skills fine for what we saw on film

Melee Fighting Kylo
-She obviously has defended herself on Jakku when Finn met her.
-Kylo Ren took a Bow Caster hit. They made a point of it being a pretty meaty weapon through out the film.

With an injured Kylo, her being decent at fighting as shown, I could buy this.

Force Powers

Nope, I did not like the mind trick with Daniel Craig or her grabbing the lightsaber and over powering Kylo's ability. It just seemed too quick and unnaturally fast.

Each one of these things would be fine if it was on its own, heck even two out of the four would have been fine. All of them combined had me cringing by the end. Really, she should have lost the fight at the end for storytelling purposes, separated by the destruction of Starkiller base. It just makes more sense story-wise if you know there is going to be a sequel. Imagine her giving Luke a broken hilt of the lightsaber. It sets up her to be a student, it sets Kylo Ren up as a bad *** and the overall story would not have been altered. Oh, and the emotional validation Rey gets from other characters through out the film also adds to the Mary Sue effect.

All that being said, I did like the character of Rey, Daisy Ridley did a great job and brought charm to the character.

At least with regards to her flying ability, there is a collection of short stories that gives back stories for Rey, Finn and Poe. In Rey's it explains that she has a flight training simulator and that she spent years flying training missions in it. She flew all of the simulations so many times that she even hacked it to throw ridiculously unsurvivable scenarios at her to see if she could figure out ways to survive. If we accept that Star Wars era flight training simulators are "realistic" enough, we could conclude that she might very well be an ace pilot without ever having actually flown a real ship.

14 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

None, absolutely none

Nothing ruins the charm of anything more than seeing it every **** time and every **** where once people realize they get easier wins with it

My favorite ships of the 'verse are probably the TIE Defender and the Scurrg.

Don't get me wrong, I wasn't exactly thrilled when the Defender was rubbish, but when "Really excited to finally fly my favourite ship" ends up being identical to "Congratulations, you're flying the same ship as everyone else", it really takes the charm out of things.

14 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

None, absolutely none

Nothing ruins the charm of anything more than seeing it every **** time and every **** where once people realize they get easier wins with it

My favorite ships of the 'verse are probably the TIE Defender and the Scurrg.

Don't get me wrong, I wasn't exactly thrilled when the Defender was rubbish, but when "Really excited to finally fly my favourite ship" ends up being identical to "Congratulations, you're flying the same ship as everyone else", it really takes the charm out of things.

Maarek Stele in a Defender.

4 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

Boy, now I understand why I don't see more creativity out here.

Since I have been asked to dream a little dream, I would go for Darth Maul in his Sith Infiltrator. Kinda always been my favorite Sith, and his ship looks cool to boot.

Here's the thing, tho. If every ship were properly balanced (as much as possible, anyway; it would take an active effort to readjust point values, as every online multiplayer game does), everyone would be able to use their own favorites in combat. Wanting your own favorite to be OP so you can fly it and beat everything else is not only selfish, but also a bit silly.

Maybe a better question would be: "what's your favorite ship that you would like to see fully balanced and viable within its own strategic and tactical role in the game, so you can play and have fun while being challenged and rewarded through proper play?"

I suppose that'd be less clickbaity, tho.

52 minutes ago, takfar said:

"what's your favorite ship that you would like to see fully balanced and viable within its own strategic and tactical role in the game, so you can play and have fun while being challenged and rewarded through proper play?"

T-65, squint, 'Viper.

15 hours ago, Nikolishin said:

B-wing - if one just could add a couple of red dice to that ship

Expose- you won't need that green die anyway.

8 hours ago, takfar said:

Here's the thing, tho. If every ship were properly balanced (as much as possible, anyway; it would take an active effort to readjust point values, as every online multiplayer game does), everyone would be able to use their own favorites in combat. Wanting your own favorite to be OP so you can fly it and beat everything else is not only selfish, but also a bit silly.

Maybe a better question would be: "what's your favorite ship that you would like to see fully balanced and viable within its own strategic and tactical role in the game, so you can play and have fun while being challenged and rewarded through proper play?"

I suppose that'd be less clickbaity, tho.

No, that would be another question. I was not going for clickbait at all. My question was a fun alternative to all the unbearable whining about broken ships around here. Have fun with the idea. Off course a game is best when its balanced... But its not, sooo... for fun... I asked a non click baity question.

13 hours ago, BVRCH said:

SLAVE 1!!

I want the Slave 1 to be the monster of a ship it is in AotC.

I want to be able to drop seismic charges, launch concussion missiles, and fire heavy repeating cannons ALL AT ONCE!

I jest of course. OP ships are never fun, but the Slave 1 is an injustice to my 'bois' Boba and Jango.

YES to it all

1 hour ago, Dwing said:

No, that would be another question. I was not going for clickbait at all. My question was a fun alternative to all the unbearable whining about broken ships around here. Have fun with the idea. Off course a game is best when its balanced... But its not, sooo... for fun... I asked a non click baity question.

I did answer your original question earnestly. I just don't see the fun in theorizing replacing unbalanced ships with other unbalanced ships.

I personally feel it's like asking: "oh look, how fun would it be to stop being bullied and become a bully ourselves for once"? Not fun.

Yes, it's just a game of plastic spaceships, I know. I'm just not fond of injustice wherever it rears its ugly head (and "OP" is definitely not justice).

You see people playing OP ships as being bullies?

6 minutes ago, Dwing said:

You see people playing OP ships as being bullies?

No, players play with whatever they like. If you try to draw a parallel (I wasn't), then the "bullies" would be the OP ships, and, different from real-life harassment, in the game you can always choose to play with the "bully ships" if you don't want to be pushed around in competitions. Where's the fun in that, tho?

So, my point is: the very fact of there being OP ships in a game pushes all other "lesser" ships off the tables (as long as you are planning to play to win, which does sound like an important part of a competitive game), making for a more repetitive and less fun game, overall. Trading one OP ship for another just causes a pointless arms race, and makes the game less and less diverse.

The problem lies not with the players, but with the game designers choosing to allow unbalanced ships to dominate the metagame, when they have a clear and easy tool to create balance: UPDATE THE POINTS VALUES!

I want all the original triology ships to be the shitz. X-wings, B-wings, A-wings should all be at the top of the meta. Right now, not a single ship from the original Movies (except Biggs) is capable of winning. They blew up the Death star FFS. Twice!. And no, I dont count scum y-wings as original triology.

1 hour ago, takfar said:

I personally feel it's like asking: "oh look, how fun would it be to stop being bullied and become a bully ourselves for once"? Not fun.

I felt the question was far more in the spirit of; "Hey, for funsies. If you could have a super power, what would it be?"

You know, this thread made me think.

What if the X-W and T-F were super-points efficient, more so than any other ship (i mean the TF was there for a long while) But were very plain, didn't have the special stuff. (Again, TF) So then the X and TIE were the bread and butter of the two main factions, but special ships added their spin. Then we would see more of these "bread and butter" ships.

The T/F was there, for the longest time. How many <somethingnasty>+miniswarms did we see? I myself made dozens!

Bottom line I suppose is points reduce the x-wing!

Basically, what if the X-wing was correctly balanced against the T/F in wave 1, and they kept that balance up till this very day?

3 hours ago, Bullox said:

I felt the question was far more in the spirit of; "Hey, for funsies. If you could have a super power, what would it be?"

Yea, except this is in the context of a competitive game. I stand by my answer. If I was, say, a professional kickboxer, and someone asked me what superpower I would want to use in a fight, I'd say: none. What's the fun of fighting opponents who are not in equal footing? And if everyone had access to the same OP superpower (say: super jab), then that wouldn't be fun either, because it would be an all-jab-vs-jab fight, and if you went around throwing kicks or uppercuts you'd be asking to be defeated.

THAT SAID, if *everyone* had different, balanced, superpowers, now that would be a super fun boxing tournament to watch.