Between Harpoon Missiles, Cruise Missiles, and the new Scrambler Missiles, it seems like we haven't had a new torpedo in awhile. What happened?

Too godly platforms for torpedoes happened

Pretty much only the Jm5K would be a problem for a sweet torpedo akin to the new missiles. Which they already have access to good torpedos with minimal effort anyway thanks to K4. Plasmas are still very good, they just spend a TL so unless youre an ordnance boat or a jm5k with k4 you wont bother.

i do hope eventually they add a torpedo meant for the random torpedo users though. Rebels have a lot of that and its ALWAYS blank because they lack the action economy to effectively use them enough to justify the 1 shot since they cant take EM too.

17 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:

Pretty much only the Jm5K would be a problem for a sweet torpedo akin to the new missiles.

You sound pretty confident. Are you aware that 11 out of the top20 pilots are able to take a torpedo? 2 are Jm5k

How confident are you that a Harpoon-like broken torpedo won‘t cause a problem with the other 9?

edit: if you don‘t like pilots: same for top20 ships. That‘s based on SOTLs list for September

Just now, GreenDragoon said:

You sound pretty confident. Are you aware that 11 out of the top20 pilots are able to take a torpedo? 2 are Jm5k

How confident are you that a Harpoon-like broken torpedo won‘t cause a problem with the other 9?

And which one of those are in lists that have the spare points to still be in the ridiculous lists they are being favored in?

If Rebel Jank could use a torp, someone would have a plasma torp. Instead, its got no spare points left. Theres no way they'd introduce a 1pt torpedo thats actually a threat, even 2pts is unlikely. They would have to shed something of value to get the torpedo in.

You cant just look at the current crazy lists and assume they can slap in a torpedo that gets added in and be even nastier. The only reason imperials were able to adapt Cruise Missiles so easily was because we also got Sabaac recently, which is an even better/slightly cheaper filler than we were already using thus giving us the extra points for said missiles. Which one of those top 20 pilot lists are you referring to can shed a ship for a cheaper ship or cut enough upgrades to bring a 3-4pt torpedo or two and still be as lethal as before? More often than not these lists are barely fitting in the 100pt limit (except jm5ks, which again goes back to my original point that only jm5ks would be a problem and you could simply design around that)

1 minute ago, Vineheart01 said:

And which one of those are in lists that have the spare points to still be in the ridiculous lists they are being favored in?

If the torpedoes are as broken as Harpoons then there will be space to include them. Plasmas are not good enough to include them. But think of Plasmas with splash, keeping your TL and something else, for the same points. I'm sure people would kick out another upgrade or exchange a ship for that.

3 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:

You cant just look at the current crazy lists and assume they can slap in a torpedo that gets added in and be even nastier.

No but I can look at the current crazy lists and realize that their chassis are pretty good. A Miranda with such a broken torpedo? No thanks.

4 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:

The only reason imperials were able to adapt Cruise Missiles so easily was because we also got Sabaac recently, which is an even better/slightly cheaper filler than we were already using thus giving us the extra points for said missiles.

Are you implying that the 4 or fewer points between OL and Sabacc are enough to equip two cruise missiles? If not then even in your own example they needed to adjust further. That's exactly what I'm saying, too.

6 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:

Which one of those top 20 pilot lists are you referring to can shed a ship for a cheaper ship or cut enough upgrades to bring a 3-4pt torpedo or two and still be as lethal as before? More often than not these lists are barely fitting in the 100pt limit (except jm5ks, which again goes back to my original point that only jm5ks would be a problem and you could simply design around that)

That is not important. It is sufficient to see that 11 out of the best 20 ships have the potential to equip a broken torpedo. Of course you can't just add them to the list and think that's all there is to it. That was also not true for Imperial Alpha lists, so the strawman you built here is not worth consideration.

I keep saying broken torpedo because Harpoons set the precedent for recent ordnance.

It's pretty much entirely down to there being missiles that don't require you to spend the target lock to shoot them. I think that's probably a deliberate distinction between the two types of munitions, but it does mean that you're significantly less likely to get maximum damage out of a torpedo. (Barring Advanced Protons, but that requires a lot of setup, is very expensive, and suffers from being Range 1 only.)

35 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:

Which one of those top 20 pilot lists are you referring to can shed a ship for a cheaper ship or cut enough upgrades to bring a 3-4pt torpedo or two and still be as lethal as before?

You know what, I bite anyway. Let's look at the current best 10 archetypes on meta-wing.com.

2 have Jm5k, already using ordnance
4 have K-Wing, already using ordnance
4 have Scurrgs, 2 already using ordnance, and for the other 2 it's trivial
1 has Kanan, where fitting a torpedo is trivial

Together they cover 9 out of 10 lists. And it's trivial for all of them to fit a torpedo instead of a missile, or instead of an expensive crew/astromech.

edit: and FYI, the 10th is FSR2, where two ships could in theory carry this broken torpedo, and at least one would fit instead of Rey/Tactician

Edit: and for the fun of it, let's look at 11-20:

12. RAC+SF can equip a torpedo. Does it make sense? Depends on the torpedo. He can absolutely fit the torpedo. There are already versions without Palp that do well, so that's possible.
13. PlotArmor can downgrade to Leebo if the torpedo is good enough, and drop countermeasures.
14. DengarTel already uses ordnance, so the change is trivial
15. Palobtanni can fit the torpedo on Fenn, and dropping gyroscopic+cloaking is clearly possible.
16. Jm5k/Assajj can easily fit 2 instead of scavenger and countermeasures
20.Wookie Escort Squadron has Miranda and can also easily adjust to include a torp

So that's 15 or 16 out of 20 lists. All can adjust.

So despite this all being a non-issue because you would never just add the torpedoes without further considerations, it is possible anyway

You could just make any new torpedoes Small ship or Imperial+Rebel Only.

6 minutes ago, BadMotivator said:

You could just make any new torpedoes Small ship or Imperial+Rebel Only.

Which would still give access to the torpedo for half of the current top20. One less if it‘s small ship only

Yeah, but that 1 ship you'd deny it to is all that really matters.

4 minutes ago, BadMotivator said:

Yeah, but that 1 ship you'd deny it to is all that really matters.

A Decimator?!

I don‘t think so - I already took out the Jumpmasters and it‘s still that many

None of the rebels which should carry torp do - Y, B and X-wings hardly ever use the slot, since B-wings are suicide, Y-wings can’t take EPTs and x-wings can’t, well, shouldn’t take guidance chips and no extra munitions. Basically, if you aren’t in a Jumpmaster there isn’t any point using torps.

Just now, Estarriol said:

None of the rebels which should carry torp do - Y, B and X-wings hardly ever use the slot, since B-wings are suicide, Y-wings can’t take EPTs and x-wings can’t, well, shouldn’t take guidance chips and no extra munitions. Basically, if you aren’t in a Jumpmaster there isn’t any point using torps.

There are more torpedo carriers than those 4 though.

Miranda?
Scurrg?
Fenn?
Decimator?
Jess?

These are all pilots from the top 20, and they are extremely overrepresented in the top20 squadlists. And at least Miranda and Nym would definitely switch cruise, homing, harpoon or concussion missile for a better torpedo. The other three have the option if the torpedo is as good as a harpoon or even better - which is not unlikely given FFGs track record

I've interpreted it as a subtle buff to Imps.

1 hour ago, GreenDragoon said:

No but I can look at the current crazy lists and realize that their chassis are pretty good. A Miranda with such a broken torpedo? No thanks

Miranda can already take harpoon missiles. I don’t see anyone asking for an even MORE powerful torpedo. But 4 dice without spending the TL would be nice.

1 hour ago, GreenDragoon said:

You know what, I bite anyway. Let's look at the current best 10 archetypes on meta-wing.com.

2 have Jm5k, already using ordnance
4 have K-Wing, already using ordnance
4 have Scurrgs, 2 already using ordnance, and for the other 2 it's trivial
1 has Kanan, where fitting a torpedo is trivial

Together they cover 9 out of 10 lists. And it's trivial for all of them to fit a torpedo instead of a missile, or instead of an expensive crew/astromech.

edit: and FYI, the 10th is FSR2, where two ships could in theory carry this broken torpedo, and at least one would fit instead of Rey/Tactician

Conversely, all of those ships except the jumpmaster and Kanan can already take harpoon missiles. Jumpmasters would get a buff with a better torpedo, but are expected to get nerfed with regards to torpedoe anyway (if theaked faq is true). Kanan could take a torpedo, but already has a 4 die attack and probably doesn’t usually wanna give up the points on other upgrades.

2 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

Miranda can already take harpoon missiles. I don’t see anyone asking for an even MORE powerful torpedo. But 4 dice without spending the TL would be nice.

Conversely, all of those ships except the jumpmaster and Kanan can already take harpoon missiles. Jumpmasters would get a buff with a better torpedo, but are expected to get nerfed with regards to torpedoe anyway (if theaked faq is true). Kanan could take a torpedo, but already has a 4 die attack and probably doesn’t usually wanna give up the points on other upgrades.

We know how FFG delivers - either the new torpedoes are again powercreep, meaning they are as good or better than harpoons. In that case these ships have now options instead of being limited to harpoons. Or the new torpedoes are so bad that nobody bothers anyway. FFG almost hit the sweetspot with cruise missiles, even though they are also clearly powercreep. New torpedoes are almost certain to be OP.

As I stated elsewhere, one of my favorite on-screen moments was when the unnamed contracted scout flies his JMK-5000 and makes that one in a million (ok one in a thousand with his trusty security droid) shot with his plasma torpedo and managed to save the galaxy by destroying the Death Star.

1 minute ago, BlodVargarna said:

As I stated elsewhere, one of my favorite on-screen moments was when the unnamed contracted scout flies his JMK-5000 and makes that one in a million (ok one in a thousand with his trusty security droid) shot with his plasma torpedo and managed to save the galaxy by destroying the Death Star.

Some of us actually like flying stuff besides just what was in the movie

We don't need a new torpedo?

Plasmas, protons, and even ions roll 4 dice, apt is a more expensive procket, and flechettes deal stress. What more do we need?

Just now, FlyingAnchors said:

We don't need a new torpedo?

Plasmas, protons, and even ions roll 4 dice, apt is a more expensive procket, and flechettes deal stress. What more do we need?

Something that doesn’t spend the TL to have torpedoes that are actually useful on more than 2 ships.

22 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

Something that doesn’t spend the TL to have torpedoes that are actually useful on more than 2 ships.

I am in favor of relevant torpedo options, not game breaking ones. Whatever torp with those mods you add, the two current torp carriers become that much more stronger. It's bad enough with plasmas you can nuke the shields off any tank in one turn.

I think it goes in cycles. Before Cruise Missiles, it seemed to me like Torpedoes were better. The 3-point cost of Plasma Torpedoes seemed pretty strong. I think Cruise Missiles and the upcoming Homing Missiles bend the power curve a little.

///

If I were to design a new torpedo: Rapid Release Torpedoes: 3 points, 4 dice, range 1-2. [standard target lock overhead; spend the target lock to perform this attack]. When your ship would be destroyed, if you have not already performed an attack this round, you may perform this attack. So no fancy mods, just a vanilla 4-dice, but somewhat of the Fel's Wrath ability baked in. Seems like the kind of thing that could be good on low-PS ships like Rookie Pilots for making sure they can get off an attack before dying, but also that the range-bands work somewhat in their favor. Cluster Missiles are a solid range 1-2 option for something like a low PS TIE Advanced, but there's no reasonable short range torpedo option.

4 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

There are more torpedo carriers than those 4 though.

Miranda?
Scurrg?
Fenn?
Decimator?
Jess?

These are all pilots from the top 20, and they are extremely overrepresented in the top20 squadlists. And at least Miranda and Nym would definitely switch cruise, homing, harpoon or concussion missile for a better torpedo. The other three have the option if the torpedo is as good as a harpoon or even better - which is not unlikely given FFGs track record

Why would any of them take a torp? Extra munitions is more use on Miranda and the Scurgg, Jess needs IA or AT so cant take chips, therefore no torp. Decimator? For real?

2 minutes ago, Estarriol said:

Why would any of them take a torp? Extra munitions is more use on Miranda and the Scurgg, Jess needs IA or AT so cant take chips, therefore no torp. Decimator? For real?

Why would Quickdraw take a missile? It‘s the same reason: because the missile or torp is broken and thus worth the opportunity cost.

I assume that you are not aware of the popular Nym/Miranda builds where they fly without EM?