Hello All,

I would like to know if anyone else feels that the cost of the game is keeping Armada from growing.

In Tucson, where I live, X-Wing continues to boom while our Armada group has struggled to stay together, let alone grow. When I ask X-Wing players(the most likely pool of new Armada players) why they don't try Armada the reason I hear most often is that Armada costs too much. I understand where they're coming from. Most X-Wing models run $15 and the core set is $40, Armada ships run are around $30 on average and the starter set costs $100. Speaking for myself alone, I would have no problem if the price of the Armada product line were dropped if it had a dramatic positive effect on the size of the community.

I believe that if the cost of Armada were less we'd have a lot more players and FFG may actually make more money due to increased sales volume. Granted, I live in a mid-sized US city however with 5 game stores I feel that a product as great as Armada should have more than the 6 core players that make up the Tucson community.

Perhaps this is just the 'meta' of Tucson(which doesn't have the best economy ever), however I wanted to put it out there to the world and see what your thoughts are.

Armada costs more, but It also contains more. Beyond that, the prices in the long run are virtually the same with X-wing being a little more expensive.

Armada - core, 1 of each large, 2 of each small/medium/squad (except just 1 of vic/cr90/neb), dice, and CC = 1280 MSRP

X-wing - 2 core, 1 of each medium, 2 of each small (minus x and tie), dice, and 1 of each epic = $1400 MSRP through wave 7. X-wing has 6 more waves on top of that. X-wing tends to release more stuff per year also.

On top of that, I see more desire to card dig in X-wing. You want to fly 3 or 4 of something, but need a card in another pack, well, that's $15-$30. The need and desire to do so in Armada is not as high. Stopping at 1 of the mediums and only 2 of the smalls REALLY limits your options in X-wing to the point that most people (that I've seen and dealt with face to face) have 2 of the mediums and 3+ of most smalls. X-wing also has a power creep issue. New units are just way more powerful for the points compared to older units. This caused the aces packs to buy more units that also became underpowered in time. Wave 1 and 2 Armada stuff is still flown regularly. ****, it's still the staple of most fleets. Wave 1 X-wing stuff hasn't seen a table in years.

Sure, the core is more expensive, but you also have a lot more for the money. The core box of Armada can last for dozens of matches as you mix stuff up and try out different things. The core box of X-wing is stale in 2 or 3 matches. Objectives are also a huge benefit for Armada as they add strategy and planning into the mix, where X-wing is simply deathmatch.

Armada appears to be more expensive due to initial entry price, but due to the amount of content, the slower rollout, the lower dependency on huge numbers, the lower dependency on cards, the lack of power creep, and the increased flexibility of the individual units, Armada is really a better deal and in fact cheaper.

That appearance of being more expensive certainly hurts it though. I think the table requirement hurts also. Few people have room to accommodate that sort of playing area. Lastly, I think the complexity of it hurts it in comparison to X-wing. X-wing is easier to get into, learn and understand the basics, and has a lower skill ceiling. Armada just flat out takes more effort.

I agree with @kmanweiss above: Armada's start-up cost is absolutely higher, but once you actually get into the games, the costs become about equal. It's just that it's harder to get someone to drop $100 on trying something.

If FFG dropped the core set down to just a single-faction plus all the extra stuff for $60ish, that would certainly help. It would mean two people would need to spend more total to just try a starter game, but it would diminish the sticker shock element. My local FLGS sells starters for $80 so that first buy-in isn't as painful and it's been working very well (everything else is MSRP). I'd recommend other stores do the same.

17 hours ago, SpaceC0wboy said:

Hello All,

I would like to know if anyone else feels that the cost of the game is keeping Armada from growing.

In Tucson, where I live, X-Wing continues to boom while our Armada group has struggled to stay together, let alone grow. When I ask X-Wing players(the most likely pool of new Armada players) why they don't try Armada the reason I hear most often is that Armada costs too much. I understand where they're coming from. Most X-Wing models run $15 and the core set is $40, Armada ships run are around $30 on average and the starter set costs $100. Speaking for myself alone, I would have no problem if the price of the Armada product line were dropped if it had a dramatic positive effect on the size of the community.

I believe that if the cost of Armada were less we'd have a lot more players and FFG may actually make more money due to increased sales volume. Granted, I live in a mid-sized US city however with 5 game stores I feel that a product as great as Armada should have more than the 6 core players that make up the Tucson community.

Perhaps this is just the 'meta' of Tucson(which doesn't have the best economy ever), however I wanted to put it out there to the world and see what your thoughts are.

I'll be brief.

Nope.

To expand:

In the terms of wargames not even close. Warhammer, flames of war, Warmachines & hordes, ect. It is by comparison extremely reasonably priced. I will admit that to get the whole collection your looking at over a grand. But for the standard 400pt game 200 bucks is about Right. Now for the sake of comparison I will put it against the granddaddy of wargames in the modern era (meaning it's still around) Warhammer 40k

40k/Armada

Starter set

160/100

Basic box of dudes/ships (based roughly on my knowlege of both games and I will generalize these as ballpark averages)

40/30

Most expsenive box ( Warhammer is very expansive the piece I list here is probably the most common high price)

82/50

Note there are many things far more expensive. THE MOST IS the warlod Titan at roughly 1800 USD.

cost to put together a standard army

500/200

All in USD

Now I'm not saying that Armada doesn't cost money. My point is that it is significantly less. My 40k collection NIB probably would run at least 10k for one faction. (Prices have changed alot since I started). In Armada due to some clever shopping probably less than 400 and I have most of the rebels fleet with duplicates of most of what I have (no Phoenix home, or gr 75s ).

For the record I'm not saying $400 is nothing either. It's still some serious cash. But I am saying in comparison to non ffg wargames its pretty reasonably priced.

Now compared to board games, yeah super expensive. But as someone once said " It is the truth, from a certain point of view."

THIS IS NOT THE POST YOUR SPOUSE IS LOOKING FOR.

MOVE ALONG.

MOVE ALONG.

1 minute ago, Noosh said:

I'll be brief.

Nope.

To expand:

In the terms of wargames not even close. Warhammer, flames of war, Warmachines & hordes, ect. It is by comparison extremely reasonably priced. I will admit that to get the whole collection your looking at over a grand. But for the standard 400pt game 200 bucks is about Right. Now for the sake of comparison I will put it against the granddaddy of wargames in the modern era (meaning it's still around) Warhammer 40k

40k/Armada

Starter set

160/100

Basic box of dudes/ships (based roughly on my knowlege of both games and I will generalize these as ballpark averages)

40/30

Most expsenive box ( Warhammer is very expansive the piece I list here is probably the most common high price)

82/50

Note there are many things far more expensive. THE MOST IS the warlod Titan at roughly 1800 USD.

cost to put together a standard army

500/200

All in USD

Now I'm not saying that Armada doesn't cost money. My point is that it is significantly less. My 40k collection NIB probably would run at least 10k for one faction. (Prices have changed alot since I started). In Armada due to some clever shopping probably less than 400 and I have most of the rebels fleet with duplicates of most of what I have (no Phoenix home, or gr 75s ).

For the record I'm not saying $400 is nothing either. It's still some serious cash. But I am saying in comparison to non ffg wargames its pretty reasonably priced.

Now compared to board games, yeah super expensive. But as someone once said " It is the truth, from a certain point of view."

He wasn't comparing it to Warhammer or any other super expensive game though. Yeah, 40k can cost as much as a house in the long run, but X-wing didn't attract that crowd (sure, some), but it was meant to hit a mainstream market of people that were never involved in miniatures, and it did so VERY well.

2 minutes ago, CaribbeanNinja said:

THIS IS NOT THE POST YOUR SPOUSE IS LOOKING FOR.

MOVE ALONG.

MOVE ALONG.

Yeah now I have to clear my browsing history.

I think it's one of the cheaper games I play - because each wave now is having only 2 ships, so I only need to spend something like 100 bucks a YEAR, (though I may end up spending more than that because sometimes I'll want 5 of a ship).

The Core Set costs too much. The game doesn't.

A lot of people end up with a bunch of contents for a faction they'll never play, and you can't split it and sell half because of all the required components (and swapping halves isn't ideal because of Expansion Pack unique upgrades and/or friends wanting the same faction). You can't buy damage decks or objectives to avoid the extra price of ships, some of which you don't want.

But upkeep is cheap. So far, keeping up with the new Imperial releases for all of 2017, has run you a grand total of... $3 a month.

$8 a month, if you play Rebels and bought two boxes of Hammerheads.

1 minute ago, kmanweiss said:

He wasn't comparing it to Warhammer or any other super expensive game though. Yeah, 40k can cost as much as a house in the long run, but X-wing didn't attract that crowd (sure, some), but it was meant to hit a mainstream market of people that were never involved in miniatures, and it did so VERY well.

Here's my point though other comparable games are more expensive. Nobody said having a hobby was cheap.

Noosh, I didn't put a lot of consideration into Armada versus other war games. You are very right though. Compared to Warhammer Armada is very inexpensive, heck, I have an Infinity army and that can get spendy pretty quickly. There's also the fact that Armada doesn't require hours, and hours, and hours of painting, it comes out of the box looking great. I'm not here to preach to the choir though.

To refine my issue it is that the most readily available group of new customers, X-Wing players, balk at the cost of Armada. I can readily understand where theyre coming from, they're paying a higher price for models which usually aren't a great deal bigger than their X-Wing ships. Have you seen this issue in your community?

Yeah, I think the core set cost prevents folks from signing onto the game, ESPECIALLY if you're coming from an X Wing background as I did. X Wing Core = $40, but $45 of ships (plus core stuff). Armada = $100, but only $80 worth of ships... But it also has 10 squadrons, so basically another $20 worth of squadrons. The content supports the cost, but the cost is still a barrier to entry. If you want to play an X Wing tourney, you'll need a $40 core, plus two larger expansions or 3 smaller ones. In other words, you can easily play a fun 100pt list for under $100. Armada on the other hand requires a lot more stuff. Looking at just the early core stuff, you'll probably want another VSD, a Gladiator, Imp Squadrons and probably 2 Raiders or something in order to get to 400 points. That's looking at $230 to play a tourney.

The long run cost isn't as great, but that's not where you get guys to sign up. You need more people to get addicted, then you can jack up the prices on the expansion packs (as X Wing did back in Wave 5 ($40 large base ship), Wave 6 ($20 small base ship, but a LARGE small base ship), and again here in Wave 12 ($30 small base ship)).

19 minutes ago, SpaceC0wboy said:

Noosh, I didn't put a lot of consideration into Armada versus other war games. You are very right though. Compared to Warhammer Armada is very inexpensive, heck, I have an Infinity army and that can get spendy pretty quickly. There's also the fact that Armada doesn't require hours, and hours, and hours of painting, it comes out of the box looking great. I'm not here to preach to the choir though.

To refine my issue it is that the most readily available group of new customers, X-Wing players, balk at the cost of Armada. I can readily understand where theyre coming from, they're paying a higher price for models which usually aren't a great deal bigger than their X-Wing ships. Have you seen this issue in your community?

I'll say for the record unlike xwing Wich i saw take off like a rocket. Armada not so much, but for those of us who did play Warhammer or the like did seem more likely to buy if there was a few who had already bought into it. The price tag almost seemed like a steal to to the guys who already wargamed.

The problem here Im Seeing is that there are two groups those who already wargamed and are used to these prices and those who are new to wargaming in general. The price of 100 bucks for some plastic ships to start is shocking to the mildly interested passerby. Especially if thier looking at board games.

I found Armada cheaper than I thought. The Core is its main problem.

@ovinomanc3r is right. The cost of the core set is what seems prohibitively high to most new players. As someone who plays X-Wing and Armada though I feel that in the long run Armada is cheaper (and a better game). It also has the added benefit that every ship I've bought is still competitively viable and all still see at least somewhat regular use. On the X-Wing side however I own too many ships that will never see the table due to obsolescence via power creep (and I haven't been playing long). In my experience trying to convert a few X-Wingers to Armada the problem hasn't been Armada's cost so much as their perception that Armada should play the same way and their dislike of the fact that it doesn't.

On a side note I left X-Wing specifically because of the power creep. I'm hoping like a Rebel(it's what we're built on ) that FFG doesn't start power creeping ships/squadrons in Armada.

@Megatronrex , you're right about ships remaining viable. I bring that up with the X-Wingers that sometimes ask about the game. I think it's lost on them though, they're to strongly addicted to the X-Crack.

compared to Cthulhu Wars... well Armada isn't so bad xD

It is too expensive for me right now.

I am choosing between my first pack of Imp Fighter II and lunch for a week...

No it is not too expensive or complex in my mind.

While a lot of people think the Core is overpriced I disagree.

Do I think it would be nice if it was cheaper? Sure but there is a lot of stuff I wish was cheaper. Cars, women, the list goes on and on

Just now, SpaceC0wboy said:

On a side note I left X-Wing specifically because of the power creep. I'm hoping like a Rebel(it's what we're built on ) that FFG doesn't start power creeping ships/squadrons in Armada.

@Megatronrex , you're right about ships remaining viable. I bring that up with the X-Wingers that sometimes ask about the game. I think it's lost on them though, they're to strongly addicted to the X-Crack.

I really liked X-Wing when it did a decent job of simulating dogfights. Now it just feels like you compare lists and declare a winner based on who has the most auto damage. The trend FFG has set so far in Armada is to include upgrades in new waves that help to keep older ships viable rather than just replacing stuff with the new meta hotness.

Us early adopters benefited from the tournament point max being 300 until wave 2. That helped with not needing to spend as much early on. Does nothing for newbies coming into the game now though. I think even if the cost upfront was similar, X-wing would still be more popular. It is just much easier to pick up and play and takes way less table space. That's alright though, I much prefer the crowd that plays Armada. X-wing drew in too people with sour attitudes.

Is Armada too expensive?

Straight answer: No.

Detailed answer: Sort of.

Armada's biggest cost issue is the core set. I'm constantly trying to recruit new players at my LGS, running learn to play games almost weekly, and as much as players are okay with a $40 ISD, they have a tough time biting the bullet on the core. Many people interested in joining Armada only want to play a single faction, so to them, spending $80-$90 for 1 or 2 ships is just too much. The reason it's too much is because the core set can't actually build a fleet, and adding an additional purchase (or even multiple purchases) of $15-$25-$40 on top of the core, just to play casually, is just too high a cost.

Ultimately, if FFG wants to see Armada expand more rapidly, they have to split the starter set. A $40 single faction core would let player's piece together a fleet much quicker and likely, even make FFG some extra cash. It's been my experience, if someone can get their half of the core for $35-$40 they're much more likely to spend over $120 total during the initial purchase to build a fleet, whereas people who buy the whole core at $90 may only pick up a single expansion... because they know they won't have enough for a full fleet.

TL:DR

FFG needs to split the core by faction. It would make getting new players 50% easier.

13 minutes ago, MIheatplaya25 said:

Us early adopters benefited from the tournament point max being 300 until wave 2. That helped with not needing to spend as much early on. Does nothing for newbies coming into the game now though.

This is why I think it's important for established players at this point to loan out ships and upgrades as needed to newer players while they get established, and to make that policy very clear to anybody considering buying in. We all know that, once you start playing the game, it's only a matter of time before the issue shifts from "do I have enough to complete a fleet" to "how am I going to store and transport all of this crap??", but you have to make it as easy as possible for new players to get over that initial hump.

Splitting core by faction would present a tough challenge for retailers, though, who run the risk of being left with extra unwanted sets of one side or another if the player base isn't exactly 50/50 imps/rebs. Why not have a "core pack" set with damage deck, tools, tokens, and rules, for a discount price. Then let users choose their ships. Now that Armada has matured and there is decent info available on what constitutes a good beginning fleet I think it's more viable than when initially released.

But I think Armada's main problem isn't actually cost (despite what people say). It's the time and space needed for a game, and the different mentality required compared to X-wing. FFG shouldn't focus on getting X-wing players to try Armada. They should be targeting 40k players - a huge population. The games have similar play lengths, and strategic/tactical thinking requirements.

And in this comparison, Armada wins the cost issue hands down.

I 100% agree with splitting the core by faction. The only issue with this are the additional SKU's and shelf space required at the FLGS, which is more an issue for some stores than others. They are doing the same thing with Legion though, 2 factions and almost $100. Folks around hear are hunting for partners to buy in with 2 starters and split the contents via faction (Exept for the elites).

All this said, if you are willing to shop around you can find the Armada Core for less than Retail readily, Amazon is one option.