Hey everyone! I used to play the Phoenix clan in the CCG version of L5R back in the day. I stopped playing at the end of Embers of War set. Still have my deck! I just got back into the game on Saturday at my LGS's L5R release event. The event was amazing! I loved the promo, lanyard, card, button, & stickers. My hubby & I both picked up 1 core set each so we basically have 2 of everything for each of our clans. Considering the new version, I don't know what cards I need or what Phoenix is good at anymore. In the CCG my deck revolved around winning by honor. I don't really see what the clan does now with the cards I've read in the core set.

What is the direction (win condition) that the Phoenix clan is going for in this LCG version of L5R?

Does anyone have any recommended decklists for the Phoenix clan or at least a list of must have cards?

Also, I'm looking to network with South Florida (USA) players. If you are in South Florida, where are you playing? What days? Would you like to play? etc.

Thanks,

Barby

Phoenix can play an effective Dishonor game, but the most common way of winning will be to stomp provinces. In the old game shugenja/courtier type characters couldn't really do that, but in the new one they can, and very often do.

Honor isn't really a viable way to actually win the game, however building a deck that makes a point of stockpiling honor could be very beneficial still as that would allow you to turn that honor directly into cards via bidding it away, or to turn that honor into some powerful effects by using it to your advantage. Truth be told, even at 3 core there isn't an enormous amount of deckbuilding variance(there's a good amount of room to play around with things in the conflict to be fair), but your way of playing a Phoenix deck and my way of playing the exact same deck could create enormously different problems for our opponents to solve. Something I love about the game so much is the huge amount of decision points really let you express yourself in your game play.

So my advice would be to enjoy the game, find your own style by just playing it a bunch and going with what feels right, and wait for the cardpool to increase a little =]

Thanks Daigotsu Steve!

Seems like the LCG currently is pushing province destruction only. I'm sure as more cards come out, clans will go towards dishonor, honor, & province destruction individually. I was just wondering if anyone had already seen some hints as to which way they are leaning towards with Phoenix. It seems Dragon is all about weapons & attack VERY successfully that way as they used to in the LCG.

I only have 2 cores so I was wondering if I REALLY needed another core or if I could do without it. I will be playing in monthly tournaments but my pocket is thin so I don't want to spend a lot. I know some people went to Gencon where they were introduced to the game & so they may have already built some good decklists for somewhat competitive play so I was just looking for suggestions as to must have cards in building my deck.

Thanks,

Barby

I would say that if you could do well with a 3 core you'll do well with a 2 core. Hold fire for a payday or two and get your core later lol, but yes, you'll eventually want 3 cores. Especially if you're looking to go into tournament play, cause there are too many good cards that given the chance to run 3, you'll definitely want to run 3, either as a splash or as a staple of your decks.

And I want to try phoenix Dishonor out a lot personally, and I imagine that when Honor does become prevalent Phoenix will be in a great position with it cause they have some very nice courtiers and one of their key mechanics is to make Honored characters more powerful and to make Dishonored characters even weaker. Not to mention that -as a dishonour player- your ring choices can swing games, and nobody gets more and better rings than a phoenix. It's why they Influence my Scorpion beautifully (if you're curious, 3 Seeker of Knowledge, 1 Magnificent Kimono and 2 Word of Power. If Scorpion get a Keeper role at Winter court, that 3rd Word will definitely happen. Card is ridiculous.)

My experience is that Phoenix right now are mostly political and rely a lot on honoring your characters to get the big glory bonuses. The abilities on the cards hint at some heavy use of ring manipulation. They'll do things like add other elements to the contested rings in order to trigger abilities on their shugenga, then swap the claimed rings to ****** fate or deny their opponents. They have some cards to do that now, but not enough to focus the deck on it.

As far as 2 Core, may want to stop there as there is another 90 dollars worth of cards being dumped in a few weeks.

On 10/11/2017 at 0:45 PM, DarwinsDog said:

My experience is that Phoenix right now are mostly political and rely a lot on honoring your characters to get the big glory bonuses. The abilities on the cards hint at some heavy use of ring manipulation. They'll do things like add other elements to the contested rings in order to trigger abilities on their shugenga, then swap the claimed rings to ****** fate or deny their opponents. They have some cards to do that now, but not enough to focus the deck on it.

Yes, I too have noticed the ring manipulation. I don't see it strong enough to be a win condition at the moment though.

On 10/11/2017 at 4:58 PM, Larac said:

As far as 2 Core, may want to stop there as there is another 90 dollars worth of cards being dumped in a few weeks.

Yeah. Everyone keeps saying you "need" 3 sets but do you really? I mean, I now have a bunch of dead cards because I am using the Phoenix & Neutral cards & my hubby is using all the Dragon & neutral cards & everything else is just sitting there. We aren't interested in any other clan. I may or may nor do Crane but other than that, we have no interest in any of the other cards. Don't the small packs being released bring 3 copies of every card for every clan in that pack? Why $90?

Thanks,

Barby

11 minutes ago, Barby007 said:

Yeah. Everyone keeps saying you "need" 3 sets but do you really? I mean, I now have a bunch of dead cards because I am using the Phoenix & Neutral cards & my hubby is using all the Dragon & neutral cards & everything else is just sitting there. We aren't interested in any other clan. I may or may nor do Crane but other than that, we have no interest in any of the other cards. Don't the small packs being released bring 3 copies of every card for every clan in that pack? Why $90?

FFG has announced that the usual once-per-month dynasty packs are going to be weekly for the first six weeks (6x$15=$90). A lot of people are upset at what they see as a cash grab. It means there are going to be a whole lot of cards dropping soon, though, and if you intend to buy each of the dynasty packs, then you may find yourself easily building an effective deck without a third copy of all the core cards. If you're finding two cores to be sufficient, instead of spending another $40 on a core, you may just be better off filling your deck out with cards from the dynasty packs.

On the other hand, completionists like me will still want to get the playset of core cards.

On 10/13/2017 at 10:10 AM, AradonTemplar said:

FFG has announced that the usual once-per-month dynasty packs are going to be weekly for the first six weeks (6x$15=$90). A lot of people are upset at what they see as a cash grab. It means there are going to be a whole lot of cards dropping soon, though, and if you intend to buy each of the dynasty packs, then you may find yourself easily building an effective deck without a third copy of all the core cards. If you're finding two cores to be sufficient, instead of spending another $40 on a core, you may just be better off filling your deck out with cards from the dynasty packs.

On the other hand, completionists like me will still want to get the playset of core cards.

Thanks for that information AradonTemplar. I got very lucky this weekend. A friend decided to get into the game when he saw my hubby & I playing at a LGS this weekend. My friend ended up buying a core. He chose Unicorn. I gave him my 2 sets of Unicorn cards in exchange for his 1 set of Phoenix & Dragon cards. Later on in the day he got his friend into it & his friend chose Scorpion. I gave him my 2 sets of Scorpion cards for his 1 set of Crane cards. I was able to make both a Phoenix & a Crane deck for myself & a Dragon deck for my hubby. Unfortunately, no one is willing to part with the neutral cards which I understand. It seems like buying 3 cores is more necessary for the neutral cards than anything else. People seem willing to trade clan for clan cards. I still have 2 sets of Lion & Crab cards for trade in case anyone needs them. I just need neutral cards at this point.

Thanks,

Barby

Phoenix is one of the most powerful clans out there IMHO.

What I see other Phoenix players do with their champ is:

Step 1: Attack. Your clan champ can Stomp a province (with help with some sacrificial lambs, highly recommended against crab) claim a ring, go home bowed end conflict, then use her ability to Fire and Honor herself +4 pump from glory, and stand herself with Water.

Step 2: Defend with your Champ, more or less win with an 8 MIL (FORCE)/ 8 POL stat. If the attacker is foolish enough not to claim Water, then you can Stand her again to attack. Repeat Step 1 and 2. Break 2 provinces and defend 2 your champ, she is hardworking haha. And you can use rings a maximum of 8 times in one round if no one claims water.

although denial is fairly simple, just claim water and hope the phoenix have no ring swap shenanigans.

Just to clarify, the Phoenix champ is able to resolve the effects of up to two rings at the end of the conflict PHASE, not at the end of each conflict.

Yeah, she would be bonkers if it was after each conflict.

4 hours ago, jowisu said:

Phoenix is one of the most powerful clans out there IMHO.

What I see other Phoenix players do with their champ is:

Step 1: Attack. Your clan champ can Stomp a province (with help with some sacrificial lambs, highly recommended against crab) claim a ring, go home bowed end conflict, then use her ability to Fire and Honor herself +4 pump from glory, and stand herself with Water.

Step 2: Defend with your Champ, more or less win with an 8 MIL (FORCE)/ 8 POL stat. If the attacker is foolish enough not to claim Water, then you can Stand her again to attack. Repeat Step 1 and 2. Break 2 provinces and defend 2 your champ, she is hardworking haha. And you can use rings a maximum of 8 times in one round if no one claims water.

although denial is fairly simple, just claim water and hope the phoenix have no ring swap shenanigans.

I'm glad you feel that Phoenix is strong currently. I feel they will get stronger when more support comes out. Currently I feel that Scorpion, Lion, & Dragon are the strongest & the fastest at winning. Although what you posted seems like a solid strategy, it's a one trick pony. Basically, I'm just fishing for my clan champion & making sure I have the sacrifice & fate for all of it. Also, when the Dragon champ copies the Phoenix champ, its just dumb. I'm hoping Phoenix gets stronger especially with maybe an honor win as they used to in the CCG.

Barby

2 hours ago, hawkeyespf said:

Just to clarify, the Phoenix champ is able to resolve the effects of up to two rings at the end of the conflict PHASE, not at the end of each conflict.

LOL looks like the guy I was observing got cheated. Good thing it wasnt me, but still bad. Thanks for the heads up, not gonna get tricked by that.

Perhaps this might help you https://tsukesthoughts.wordpress.com/2017/10/18/l5r-deck-building-phoenix/

It was on the L5R reddit, in an eloquent way he goes through his decisions for making his deck.

I can honestly dishonor a player out faster than I can honor win with Phoenix. They aren't bad, but they are so fate hand dependant that you have to adapt a lot from turn to turn.

I've managed to get the air ring to trigger 4 times in a single turn in a game, so it's possible to do well. They just need some deck delving tech and more draw tech to truly make them shine.

9 hours ago, jowisu said:

Step 1: Attack. Your clan champ can Stomp a province (with help with some sacrificial lambs, highly recommended against crab) claim a ring, go home bowed end conflict, then use her ability to Fire and Honor herself +4 pump from glory, and stand herself with Water.

Nobody can stand themselves up with the water ring.

And when she does her ability, it's too late to count her standing glory for imperial favor, IIRC.

Remember to put Kuroi Mori on your stronghold, then you are very, very annoying to kill for every clan, except another pheonix and dragon since both are mostly balanced in both. It pretty much forces unicorn to save all its flip cards, but it also have to make them think long and hard about when to put some of their better - political character in the game. Because as soon as you switch the conflict, they bow and go home. Meaning they gotta spend a **** of a shitload of resources, which they might have had to spend on the first three.

8 hours ago, jowisu said:

LOL looks like the guy I was observing got cheated. Good thing it wasnt me, but still bad. Thanks for the heads up, not gonna get tricked by that.

Seems so! At least now we know how the ruling really works. I'm sure it was a mistake. Everyone is just learning the rules so we are bound to mess them up.

6 hours ago, Mig el Pig said:

Perhaps this might help you https://tsukesthoughts.wordpress.com/2017/10/18/l5r-deck-building-phoenix/

It was on the L5R reddit, in an eloquent way he goes through his decisions for making his deck.

This is great!Thank you for sharing. So very helpful!!

4 hours ago, SideshowLucifer said:

I can honestly dishonor a player out faster than I can honor win with Phoenix. They aren't bad, but they are so fate hand dependant that you have to adapt a lot from turn to turn.

I've managed to get the air ring to trigger 4 times in a single turn in a game, so it's possible to do well. They just need some deck delving tech and more draw tech to truly make them shine.

I agree! They need something. I will always love Phoenix but they need something in order for them to be more competitive in the LCG.

Thanks,

Barby

4 hours ago, caseycheesecake said:

Nobody can stand themselves up with the water ring.

And when she does her ability, it's too late to count her standing glory for imperial favor, IIRC.

Yep. We figured that out. Ruling issues.

4 hours ago, mintek917 said:

Remember to put Kuroi Mori on your stronghold, then you are very, very annoying to kill for every clan, except another pheonix and dragon since both are mostly balanced in both. It pretty much forces unicorn to save all its flip cards, but it also have to make them think long and hard about when to put some of their better - political character in the game. Because as soon as you switch the conflict, they bow and go home. Meaning they gotta spend a **** of a shitload of resources, which they might have had to spend on the first three.

I do have Kuroi Mori on my Stronghold. It is very strong! At least for a turn.They usually figure out what to do the following turn.

Thanks,

Barby

3 hours ago, Barby007 said:

At least for a turn.They usually figure out what to do the following turn.

They might figure it out, but that doesn't mean they're equipped to break it. Say a unicorn with tons of military strength declares political, you just let it ride. Literally the only way to beat it is to be balanced. Some clans simply aren't.

My wife plays Phoenix and found she was much happier with her deck once we picked up our 3rd core set. She really enjoys choosing which rings to challenge based on which shugenja she has in play and using her cards to manipulate the rings, allowing her to challenge the same ring multiple times in a round and bringing some devastating power to her conflicts. The downside is the lack of consistent gameplay at the moment as Phoenix success hinges on certain card combos.

Me and my wife are both really excited for the future of Phoenix, as once they get a larger card pool allowing for decks to be designed around specific rings, their power will become something to be feared. I see them as being one of the most fun clans to play once they are fleshed out a bit more.

20 hours ago, Barby007 said:

I'm glad you feel that Phoenix is strong currently. I feel they will get stronger when more support comes out. Currently I feel that Scorpion, Lion, & Dragon are the strongest & the fastest at winning. Although what you posted seems like a solid strategy, it's a one trick pony. Basically, I'm just fishing for my clan champion & making sure I have the sacrifice & fate for all of it. Also, when the Dragon champ copies the Phoenix champ, its just dumb. I'm hoping Phoenix gets stronger especially with maybe an honor win as they used to in the CCG.

Barby

Well I personally think they are underestimated, I guess the fact that they have such a high glory makes it either harder or easier to break provinces depending on the match up. I wouldnt put too much credit on my opinion though, I am very new in this game, but from my observation i feel that they are powerful in a sense that they have versatility. Ill be playing Phoenix for the week and ill give some feed back.

10 hours ago, Barby007 said:

Seems so! At least now we know how the ruling really works. I'm sure it was a mistake. Everyone is just learning the rules so we are bound to mess them up.

Barby

Yeah everyone is new in the game so I understand that things like that happen.

@Barby007

I've played a lot of Phoenix with single Core (I also played Phoenix at L5R Honored) and a good deal with 3x. I think the best way to play Phoenix is like an avalanche: takes time to start moving, but when it does it's pretty hard to stop. You achieve that by trying to create a lasting board of honored characters, investing fate especially in those who are particularly powerful (like Isawa Atsuko, for example). The main issue is that being honored or not means a huge board swing for Phoenix, so you have to be very careful in order to keep momentum. It should also be noted that there are quite a few events (most notably For Shame!) that can ruin your gameplan very easily, so you should be patient and try to endure it all because, if you manage to do that, you'll most likely come out on top. The other thing I would advise (which is not general consensus among Phoenix players) is that you should be proactive: many of your cards reward you for declaring the right conflict at the right time (Adept of Waves, Isawa Atsuko, Solemn Scholar, any high glory character with Fire really), so don't be too shy. Winning conflicts is usually a pain for us due to our general lack of powerful tricks and average/under average stats but if you can win the key ones the avalanche will hopefully get going.

Hope this helps!

P.S.: do not attempt a honor win, there aren't enough tools in the Core Set for that to be effective. If your opponent bids carelessly then sure, go for it, but never choose it as your main strategy.

I find it best to dishonor the opposing characters and use control to fight unopposed. I rarely defend if it's political to keep my own characters from getting dishonored. I have had a lot of luck with Phoenix dishonor.

If a player uses fate on characters, you control them, if not, dishonor them. You can hit air and Fire a pretty good number of times, and as long as you have at least one library, you can usually drain them in the draw phase too.