Just now, Stay On The Leader said:

Go ahead and try to build that on a squad builder of your choice, then get back to me ;-)

Already spotted the problem.

Just now, __underscore__ said:

I know you're just trying to be cute about it and everything, but it doesn't really take much in the way of greens to get a good amount of use out of K4.

No, but it DOES take a good dial plus multiple other upgrade slots to really get the best out of it to the point people start to complain. Again, no one complains about K4 being overpowered on a YV-666, or a HWK-290.

Currently the JM5K is the only platform which can combine K4 Security Droid with a low basic price, a good dial, Unhinged Astromech (for 3 extra greens), 2 torpedo slots AND an Elite Talent slot. Is it really K4 that's the issue, or is it - like Edrio Two Accounts points out - the JM5K?

1 minute ago, Stay On The Leader said:

Good, because for 3 points and a valuable crew slot I would expect a good amount of use!

For 3 points and a valuable EPT slot, PTL locks in NEXT turn's maneuver, and doesnt work when you bump.

Now I know you're not trying to say K4 Security Droid is better than Push The Limit.

1 minute ago, FTS Gecko said:

Again, no one complains about K4 being overpowered on a YV-666, or a HWK-290.

Well that's their fault then.

2 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

Is it really K4 that's the issue, or is it - like Edrio Two Accounts points out - the JM5K?

It's both: K4 offers a little too much for an offensive crew and the JM5K has enough options to exploit it. Just because the latter is genuinely game breaking doesn't mean I have to like the design of the former.

Basically, to fix the Nym problem, have the Havoc title takeaway both crew and turret slot. Problem solved. Want TLT? Ok, no adv sensors or accuracy corrector.

For K4, I do beleive all "after executing a maneuver" upgrades and abilities should be worded like x7 and HotR Falcon title so bumping/blocking stops the effect.

2 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

Now I know you're not trying to say K4 Security Droid is better than Push The Limit.

Outside arcdodgers, it is. An academy pilot can ruin Fel's day. K4 doesnt care.

31 minutes ago, __underscore__ said:

I know you're just trying to be cute about it and everything, but it doesn't really take much in the way of greens to get a good amount of use out of K4.

It makes Bossk almost tier 2!

16 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

Have you a fancy gif that symbolises realising that PTL and K4 are a synergy choice rather than mutually exclusive picks?

There's literally only one ship that can take both AND wants to, and that's Ketsu, and only if she's not in a Mindlink squad.

1 minute ago, thespaceinvader said:

There's literally only one ship that can take both AND wants to, and that's Ketsu, and only if she's not in a Mindlink squad.

And honestly, she's better off with Dengar crew if he's not already in use.

Usually yes.

In my builds he usually is though, because Ordnance Bossk wants Dengar AND K4...

9 minutes ago, __underscore__ said:

Have you a fancy gif that symbolises realising that PTL and K4 are a synergy choice rather than mutually exclusive picks?

2 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

There's literally only one ship that can take both AND wants to, and that's Ketsu, and only if she's not in a Mindlink squad.

Oh, I don't know, you could be going for a really janky 4-LOM build...

2 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

There's literally only one ship that can take both AND wants to, and that's Ketsu, and only if she's not in a Mindlink squad.

I presume that's the modern and ironic use of literally? The only thing that holds it down is so many scum aces needing VI. All part of the design of the faction, of course, but I don't really see that as a particularly robust plan.

4 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

Oh, I don't know, you could be going for a really janky 4-LOM build...

lol, G1as

4 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

3 minutes ago, __underscore__ said:

I presume that's the modern and ironic use of literally? The only thing that holds it down is so many scum aces needing VI. All part of the design of the faction, of course, but I don't really see that as a particularly robust plan.

Nope, I do mean that literally, literally. The necessity for having a good dial, crew slot, and ept slot, basically limits it to the Jumpmaster and the Shadow Caster, and Assaj wants Latts, and the Jumpmaster is basically Dengar who wants Expertise or VI, Tel who wants VI, and Manaroo and the Scout who want MIndlink. Not to mention that once you've used K4, the Jump only has 2 actions, and doesn't always want to stack them, whereas stacking focus/evade will rarely cause issues.

Which other ships would you think of using PTL and K4 together on?

5 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

lol, G1as

Yeah, you say that now.

Just wait until I 3-straght, target lock, focus, evade right in your face then dump the stress on you for dessert. We'll see who's laughing then.

28 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Which other ships would you think of using PTL and K4 together on?

I consider it on pretty much any ship that can take the combo, well, except the Quadjumper. It doesn't always win, of course, but it's always in the running.

Edit: I'd add that I'd consider Expertise and PtL both the same kind of multiplier on top of K4, doubly (err... maths is hard) so with Dengar and his double-tap.

4 hours ago, FTS Gecko said:

Address the root of the problem. If you're going to fix anything, fix the platform, not upgrades that have a universal application.

Yes. (And add SLAM to the list. SLAM needs changing to limits its effectiveness, not AdvSLAM.)

But FFG simply doesn't work in this common-sense way, unfortunately.

1 hour ago, FTS Gecko said:

Again, no one complains about K4 being overpowered on a YV-666, or a HWK-290.

And @Stay On The Leader

I do.

I‘m against additional actions that rely on a movement in any way and ignore bumps or overlaps, period.

The whole concept is flawed.

2 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

And @Stay On The Leader

I do.

I‘m against additional actions that rely on a movement in any way and ignore bumps or overlaps, period.

The whole concept is flawed.

Completely disagree. Some should be stopped, some should work, you should be able to choose if you want a strong option that can be blocked or a weaker option that can't (or to pay more for an option that can't). Make everything function the same and you lose variety and diversity and just reduce people to playing the 'the most efficient' not 'the one that functions the way I want in this situation'.

3 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

Completely disagree. Some should be stopped, some should work, you should be able to choose if you want a strong option that can be blocked or a weaker option that can't (or to pay more for an option that can't). Make everything function the same and you lose variety and diversity and just reduce people to playing the 'the most efficient' not 'the one that functions the way I want in this situation'.

No, I still disagree.

Unpreventable things are almost all bad for the game I want. That has nothing to do with loss of diversity - if unpreventable actions are the keeper of diverstiy then the game is in a horrible place.

Unpreventable actions open the door for broken combos that slip through or pass the horrible playtesting with future cards.