Thoughts:

1. No. We need AS to stay so the Silencer can do really well.

2. Mm... sure. I only use AC on Advanced, Punishers, and SFs... actually... ah... no. I've never seen Nym with AC, so I think I'm OK.

3. YESSSSSSSS. Anything that hurts Scum is good.

2 hours ago, eagletsi111 said:

1) Advanced Sensors, should allow only Focus, Evades, and Target locks

2) Accuracy Corrector should be Primary Arc only

3) K4 Security Droid should state after completing a green maneuver, if you have not overlapped and obstacle or ship, you may take a free target lock within range 1 or range 2

What they affect:

Advanced Sensors Nerf: This stops all the crazy re positioning going on right now. Dare I say it almost as good as the Phantom was before the nerf due to seeing the board state before moving. Perhaps they could change the timing to match the new phantom or something.

Accuracy Corrector Nerf: This stops the TLT Ghost and Nym or any ship with AC and Autoturret. It makes them have to keep you in your arc. Yes, I know it's scary, but people can actually learn to do it.

K4 Security Droid Nerf: Having the ability to overlap and get a free target lock every turn is OP, this makes it based on your flying skill. Much like defenders are now too.

Overall:

All of these nerfs attempt to get the game back to being more about flying then about card combinations.

Thanks,

I can't agree with the advanced sensors nerf. Advanced sensors isn't the problem, a PS10 bomber with a native barrel roll is the problem. This fix will ruin the card for everything else and it wasn't an issue before Nym.

I have a similar opinion with the AC nerf, it's TLT that's the issue. It seems too heavy handed for its other uses, but I can see where you're coming from. If this were to be nerfed instead of TLT, I think something along the lines of a 'once per round' addition to the card would be a better fix for the TLT combo.

K4 nerf I completely agree with.

1 hour ago, Marinealver said:

Nerf You you Laser Brained Scruffy Looking Nerf Herder!

I'll Nerf Your List Up.

Man. I mean, this wasn’t even funny when you posted it the first time, but I do have to say you certainly get points for commitment.

K4 fix would be good. Most any “get this no matter what” type upgrades would be good to have some sort of clause like that.

acc corrector change seems totally unnecessary.

Adv Sensors... sure..?

NOPE.

This knee-jerk reaction to hamstring currently considered OP crew, pilots, upgrades, and weapons should really stop. Because:

1. The game state changes with every wave and sometimes between waves.

2. We don't know what's in the pipeline for future releases. There may be a counter to the counter you're trying to counter.

3. I really think a lot of these ideas come about because someone's favorite build got torn apart by a listed game effect. I've said this before.

4. I'm pretty sure that there are builds that mitigate the effects of certain pilots and upgrades that are the nerf targets. Find and use them.

5. Reading these threads is really becoming a major buzz kill. The days of "pure dogfighting" are long gone. Face it. The first time action based movement was used, it opened the door to the PS race. With some exceptions high PS is still king.

6. If everything that was talked about in these threads was actually nerfed, we'd be playing with the original core set. No PWT's, bombs, slam actions, turrets, rebel regen, handfuls of upgrade cards, some pilots and the list goes on. At one time TLT Y-Wings x 4 was THE major OP nerf topic. Where are they now? When was the last time you faced them? Doea anyone actually think Nym will be this infamous in six months to a year?

I play two to four times a week, multiple games. Hit a store tournament now and then. I win some, lose more and have yet to ask for a nerf/buff/ban. The closest was hoping for something to make the T65 more playable.

1 hour ago, defkhan1 said:

While K4 is hardly ruling the meta or anything, I'd certainly like to see an x7-esque change all cards of its kind. No triggers on being blocked or stressed. You should not be rewarded for poor flying.

Accuracy Corrector is fine as it is.

Advanced Sensors is only a problem on Nym and potentially on Kylo. I'd say nerf Nym (since the chassis shares a good bit of the blame) and wait to see what happens with Kylo.

This.

Accuracy Corrector is annoying in the right combo, but it's not the part of those combos that's really the problem.

Advanced Sensors with pre-movement reposition can be powerful, but as mentioned is really only a problem on Nym, AND it's eating the action. Phantoms were too powerful because it was free and twice as far.

K4, on the other hand. I've increasingly come to the conclusion that anything that gives out action-equivalents for effectively free needs to have the X7 errata added. You still get it for (effectively) free, but you can't just derp around and still get it, you actually need to think about your maneuvers. And maybe your opponents' maneuvers as well.

38 minutes ago, Stoneface said:

5. Reading these threads boards is really becoming a major buzz kill.

FTFY.

I heard the game was dead anyways.

Oddly, I'll be playing Wednesday night. I expect to have a good time. Eh, I'm probably just too dumb to notice how much the game sucks.

4 hours ago, eagletsi111 said:

1) Advanced Sensors, should allow only Focus, Evades, and Target locks

2) Accuracy Corrector should be Primary Arc only

3) K4 Security Droid should state after completing a green maneuver, if you have not overlapped and obstacle or ship, you may take a free target lock within range 1 or range 2

What they affect:

Advanced Sensors Nerf: This stops all the crazy re positioning going on right now. Dare I say it almost as good as the Phantom was before the nerf due to seeing the board state before moving. Perhaps they could change the timing to match the new phantom or something.

Accuracy Corrector Nerf: This stops the TLT Ghost and Nym or any ship with AC and Autoturret. It makes them have to keep you in your arc. Yes, I know it's scary, but people can actually learn to do it.

K4 Security Droid Nerf: Having the ability to overlap and get a free target lock every turn is OP, this makes it based on your flying skill. Much like defenders are now too.

Overall:

All of these nerfs attempt to get the game back to being more about flying then about card combinations.

Thanks,

advanced sensors is my fav so i hesitate to mess with it. the other 2? HELLLL YESSS!

I can't disagree on K4, but the two system slots are victims of other, more problematic cards. Mostly Twin Laser Turret and the total design catastrophe that is Bomblet Generator. Go after them.

K4, System officer and R2D2 should all get the same "no overlapping" nerf. (System officer doesnt have the same impact as K4 right now because it's "other ship", but it's cheaper, too) Night Beast, Lando, and Pivot Wing are fine IMO. System officer may be fine, too, but it's a direct comparison to K4.

11 minutes ago, Rakaydos said:

K4, System officer and R2D2 should all get the same "no overlapping" nerf. (System officer doesnt have the same impact as K4 right now because it's "other ship", but it's cheaper, too) ... System officer may be fine, too, but it's a direct comparison to K4.

I know it's a direct counterpart, but helping a friendly is so much worse than helping yourself. You need to have a friendly ship, you need them to be in range of you, you need them to be in range of an enemy, and the System Officer's ship is generally at very low PS so you're often doing this without a clear idea on what your friend is even going to be able to shoot at.

They don’t need to nerf K4 specifically. They just need to make “after you execute anmaneuver” only apply if you don’t bump or go over a rock. Catch em all at once

2 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

They don’t need to nerf K4 specifically. They just need to make “after you execute anmaneuver” only apply if you don’t bump or go over a rock. Catch em all at once

You catch far too many perfectly innocent cards with that kind of blanket approach. K4 needs to be smacked around a little, but Pivot Wing? Outlaw Tech? Lando pilot?

2 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

FTFY.

I heard the game was dead anyways.

Oddly, I'll be playing Wednesday night. I expect to have a good time. Eh, I'm probably just too dumb to notice how much the game sucks.

Not dumb. Like many others, you enjoy all aspects of the game. Theory crafting, squad building, obstacle placement theory, set-up, play, endgame and post game debrief with a beer.

3 hours ago, DR4CO said:

I know it's a direct counterpart, but helping a friendly is so much worse than helping yourself. You need to have a friendly ship, you need them to be in range of you, you need them to be in range of an enemy, and the System Officer's ship is generally at very low PS so you're often doing this without a clear idea on what your friend is even going to be able to shoot at.

The big thing about low PS is you have to dial a green maneuver that lets you end in range 1 of the ally, who has to already be in TL range of the target to take it anyways. And to keep doing it you have to have the two ships fly in formation and fairly slowly. It's very limiting to make use of as a result (unless you're using Stridan, but then you're running a dedicated 40+ point support ship, so...)

Exactly my point. Leave the poor little Systems Officer alone and let's focus on the actual problem child, shall we?

I'm kind of torn about K4. It's kind of in the same boat as Zuckuss pre-nerf. It was maybe too good for the points, but mainly because of certain ships/pilots abusing it.

Nerfing K4, like nerfing zuckuss, would hurt YV's the most. Because of they way they fly it's common to bump and/or be stressed, so they would get much less use out of K4.

Maybe nerf it to say you can get a target lock but only if the ship you lock is inside your primary firing arc? That would hurt jumps the most, which is never a bad thing.

The nerf ideas for AS and AC would be fine I guess.

13 hours ago, eagletsi111 said:

Well not for you Gecko, because you are in the small percentage that don't think the game is not fun when you have no control over board state unless you take the same ships as your opponent and when you don't have to plan a few turns ahead, or can get bombed even if you fly well.

But for others who actually like to play in games that are balanced and fair, and require skill to win games, instead of seeing the board state and making decision on it or having the best combination of cards. You know back when X-wing was about actually flying well instead of what are the best combinations of cards to give me the most actions. That completely circumvent the actual game rules.

I notice you never actually answered Ryan's question, and just went straight for the ad hominem attack.

Good for you. If I was defending a suggestion as tenuous as yours, I'd probably have gone for the ad hominem as well.

13 hours ago, Stay On The Leader said:

• Fix TLT.

Bingo

Seriously. If TLT wasn't super broken, and the Jumpmaster wasn't super broken, we wouldn't be in anywhere near the trouble we are now.

Advanced Sensors: not that huge a problem. I've not found it difficult to combat when I've faced it recently - but that's because TLT Nym is just so much better, and kiting with him is trivial.

AC: better with TLT than anything, then with ABT but ABT is easy to avoid.

K4: only started being a real issue with the Jumpmaster. Everything else it can go on is relatively underpowered enough to mean that this card - which is unquestionably VERY strong - isn't that problematic.

9 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

K4: only started being a real issue with the Jumpmaster. Everything else it can go on is relatively underpowered enough to mean that this card - which is unquestionably VERY strong - isn't that problematic.

I make this right. On balance and in the current meta I'd say dengar crew is better than K4. The only reason you take K4 over dengar crew is because you already have Dengar pilot. I don't hear many complaints about how broken Dengar crew is so it must be the interaction of Dengar pilot and K4 causing the problems.

Just now, asters89 said:

I make this right. On balance and in the current meta I'd say dengar crew is better than K4. The only reason you take K4 over dengar crew is because you already have Dengar pilot. I don't hear many complaints about how broken Dengar crew is so it must be the interaction of Dengar pilot and K4 causing the problems.

And maybe we need to fix Rey crew so that you can't draw a Focus token off her if you bumped or are stressed. And you can't regen a shield with R2-D2 if you bumped. Or use C-3PO, or Finn's extra dice, get an evade from Autothrusters, or do anything at all.

Dengar crew isn't as problematic as K4 (IMO) at least partly because it can't launch ordnance. It's also limited in how many rerolls it can do - albeit that limit is higher than it might normally be in this meta - and most importantly, Unique.

My inclination would be that K4 should work if you bumped or are stressed, but it should give you an extra stress or maybe a damage in that context. Something to make it a choice, rather than an automatic fail. LIke so many of Scum's great options, it's in danger of being over-nerfed because there are some outstanding platforms for it, which only hurts all the weaker platforms more.

If all the Scum ships were on a par, then it woudl be a lot easier to balance K4 and Mindlink etc.

But when you look at e.g. Contracted Scout versus Gand Findsman, for the same price...

Attack: 2 PWT versus 3 arc. Nominally about the same, but turrets are SO useful currently, especially in a relatively low agility meta. Scout win.

Base size: mostly a wash.

Agility: 2 versus 1. Scout win.

HP: 5/4 versus 4/4. Scout win.

Dial: *dies laughing* Scout win.

Actions: Focus/tl on both, Scout has native barrel roll, Findsman has to pay a point for a unique version, or two for a generic. Scout win.

Slots: Both have: EPT, crew, title, illicit, mod (and the titles are not really comparable, illicits are, though Findsman gets Cloaking Device, where Scout gets Burnout Slam). Findsman gains: System. Scout gains: 2 torpedoes, salvaged astromech. Scout win.

Both cost the same.

How do you successfully design something that's balanced for the Findsman but not broken on the Scout, except by it being a System slot?

Except that the Lok Revenant is a broadly similar comparison, and CAN access the system slot. It costs 1 point more, gains TURRET!, 2 ordnance slots, 2 bomb slots, 2HP, and can either have crew or trashmech/system, and loses only illicit. And has a better dial and native BR.

So, how do you make something balanced for the Findsman that doesn't immediately unbalanced the other two?

10 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

LIke so many of Scum's great options, it's in danger of being over-nerfed because there are some outstanding platforms for it, which only hurts all the weaker platforms more.

Yup. The problem with the suggestions in this threads are - once again - that they're addressing the symptom, not the cause. @eagletsi111 has a raging hate-on for Nym, and has since the day of release. Hence his laughably transparent attempt to facilitate a Nym nerf by ragging on Advanced Sensors and Accuracy Corrector.

But other ships can use Advanced Sensors and Accuracy Corrector as well as Nym. A nerf to these upgrades doesn't just affect Nym, it affects the E-Wing, B-Wing, the G1-A, the Lambda, the TIE Advanced, the IG-2000, the Upsilon... and the last thing many of these ships need is a reduction in their effective options.

The same is true (to a lesser extent) of K4; Scum's favourite Security Droog can be used on the Firespray, YV-666, G1-A, HWK-290, Scurrg, Quadjumper, Lancer and the JM5K, but only really shines on the latter two. So while I agree that mechanics like K4 and x7 should be identical in application, you're not going to get an effective nerf of the problematic platforms by nerfing the upgrades.

Address the root of the problem. If you're going to fix anything, fix the platform, not upgrades that have a universal application.

15 hours ago, eagletsi111 said:

1) Advanced Sensors, should allow only Focus, Evades, and Target locks

2) Accuracy Corrector should be Primary Arc only

3) K4 Security Droid should state after completing a green maneuver, if you have not overlapped and obstacle or ship, you may take a free target lock within range 1 or range 2

1 is ridiculous, how is advanced sensors not lending itself to boosting or barrel rolling?

2. should be primary weapon only, maybe

3. I agree with.