8 hours ago, Blackbird888 said:

That said, I think there's a lot of good characters that can be made with the original specializations. There are less exciting talents and things, sure, but they get the job done.

Meh. Retrospective time. Let's see:

Bounty Hunter: Pretty good career all said and done. Good career skills and nice specs - Gadgeteer and Assassin are awesome, and Survivalist makes a good 'scout', especially if you add Assassin. This career can turn its hand to most things and is iconic and interesting to play, even in Core. Martial Artist from the splatbook is just the cherry on top of the BH icing and delicious bun.

Colonist: It's... meh. You're a civilian/professional in an Action Hero world. Doctor and Scholar aren't bad per se, they're just focused on stuff that you probably won't be doing in a Star Wars adventure. Players tend to see them as 'NPC classes' really. Politico is awesome though - you get to be party Face, plus help your friends by shouting hit points back into them, and kill your enemies (Minions, anyway) using harsh language. The fun stuff you get in the splatbook is much better than what's in the Core.

Explorer: Weak career choices (three Knowledge skills!) and bad Core specs really hamper a good concept. A lot of players want to play 'fringe' without the 'scum and villainy' and this is how you do it... But Core Explorer sucks bantha poodoo. Fringer is actually okay for avoiding attacks and soaking up hurt, but your offence is zero (which is why my poor GM PC character spends every combat round standing around in the open screaming 'Come At Me Bro!! '). And you get to be good at Astrogation, the suckiest skill in the game. Trader is okay at what it does... but again, you're essentially playing an NPC class. Also a lot of GMs seem to ignore the economy rules, rendering this class (and the Quartermaster) fairly useless. You really have to keep a tight watch on party funds, rarity, Restricted items, and the like, if someone takes one of the 'economy-orientated' classes. Last (and least) 'Scout' is just an insult - as a Spec, it drops its pants and blows raspberries at you and says rude things about your mother. 'Scout' isn't just horrible at doing Star Wars stuff, it's horrible at scouting , which is a humiliation that even the poor old doddering Scholar doesn't suffer from. This Spec doesn't know what it is, or what it's trying to be, and it doesn't care . It's no coincidence that Explorer was the first splatbook, and 'Scout' should have gone the way of the 'Surveillance' skill during Beta.

Hired Gun : Very useful, very focused career, and the Specs are probably over -powered if anything. Bodyguard is awesome at protecting others, driving and shooting. Marauder is stupidly-effective, though you won't get to do much beyond fighting, you do it amazingly well. Merc Soldier adds some face-type skills and talents. You'll never want for something to do on a Star Wars adventure.

Technician: It's... okay. Mechanic actually does the unfussy, bread-and-butter stuff Blackbird talks about well (and you get to punch things). Slicer requires your adventures to involve a lot of computer stuff, or else you're just playing the Decker in Shadowrun while everyone else (expect the Scout) gets to have fun. Outlaw Tech really only comes into its own with 'Special Modifications', and the inventing rules - you'll otherwise lack the shooty skills that makes Gadgeteer such a great pick for the Bounty Hunter.

Smuggler: Not bad at all. Pilot is another of those 'does unflashy stuff well' Specs, but it necessitates your adventures involve a lot of ship combat. Thief is surprisingly useful; stealth and street-smarts are very handy skills in your average Star Wars adventure. Scoundrel is great, having face and firearm skills both. The Career is only enhanced by the splatbook, which synergises well with everything in Core.

What about Force Sensitive: Exile?

Also my Doctor would take umbrage with your assessment of its specialization. I love that spec.

I wonder what if the clone doesn't get the two cross training skills humans normally have?

Seem a little harsh but that might explain that extra skill couldn't it?

25 minutes ago, kaosoe said:

What about Force Sensitive: Exile?

Also my Doctor would take umbrage with your assessment of its specialization. I love that spec.

Ah, it's just one woman's view. Any character can be fun and viable - Kimmy's a Trader/Fringer and she's amazingly fun to play, but all that comes from Kimmy and not her career.

Doctor is... okay, but the healer/buffer role feels more like NPC stuff, at least at my table. Are you playing a pure Doctor, kaosoe, or does he have other specs? All the fun stuff seems to be in Soldier/Medic as far as I can see.

Force-Sensitive Exile is great. I really loved the way EoE handled the Force, and this Spec perfectly sums up a Force Adept on the run, keeping his head down and keeping a low profile. I'm always impressed by how much sheer awesome you can do with a full Move tree and a measly two Force dice. Yoda and Vader would be green with envy. The only real problem with FSEx (and it's more of a MarcyVerse thing than an EoE thing) is that the Force careers that came after killed it and took its stuff. But if you're playing a pure Fringe game, FSEx is all kinds of awesome with Influence and Sense alone. Our 'Krayt Dragons' smuggler group has a much different, much more 'canon' and gritty feel compared to the outright super-heroics and magic-wizardry of the F&D crew.

By contrast, our original EoE game feels like 'Firefly' or 'Guardians of the Galaxy', the 'scum and villainy' one feels more like some grimy, amoral grindhouse flick. Our AoR game feels like an 80's action movie, 'American Bodybuilders Verses Foreign Mooks Who Can't Shoot Worth A Dam n XVIII'. The elements of horror actually come from what the characters do, rather than what happens to them. The F&D Followers game is like... I dunno, a high-level D&D party with magic swords, artefacts and 9th level spells, kind of like Tolkien's epic played out using 'Pathfinder' rather than 'One Ring'.

Aaw, I'm kind of interested in the Scholar build if I end up doing EotE over F&D. Buuut I could always follow my childhood dream and current hobby as an armchair Egyptologist and go Archaeologist, unless that one sucks, too.

26 minutes ago, Mindless Philosopher said:

Aaw, I'm kind of interested in the Scholar build if I end up doing EotE over F&D. Buuut I could always follow my childhood dream and current hobby as an armchair Egyptologist and go Archaeologist, unless that one sucks, too.

Archaeologist is awesome, it beats up the Scholar and takes his lunch money. Then kicks sand in his face. It needed to be in Core, not a splatbook, because everyone wanted to play Space Indiana Jones. Archaeologist is the kind of two-fisted pulp hero who gets all the girls/guys, while the Scholar sits miserably in the corner with his rare stamp collection.

Scholar is... okay at doing scholarly stuff. Which is of little value in most Star Wars games where you'll be sneaking around, visiting hives of scum and villainy, and shooting stormtroopers until your trigger finger goes numb with Repetitive Stress Disorder. At least the Sage can throw spaceships at people when his Knowledge skills aren't cutting the mustard.

You really need your GM to build a game around your Scholar, referencing your specific Talents and giving meaning to all those points you put in Know: Education instead of Ranged: Heavy. Or do what our Scholar did and take Force-Sensitive Exile and throw starships at stormtroopers. Because that stuff never gets old, believe me.

1 hour ago, Maelora said:

(I just re-read my old posts and goddam, I used to get dog-piled here! That was long before I became the Cool Old Lady of the forum I guess... Hey whafrog, you called me 'silly'! )

How dare I! Now I want to see what drivel I was producing oh-so-long ago...or do I?

Aww, you're right, I am kinda silly Sometimes.

2013 is another country; they do things differently there...

So scouts and explorers are not good according to the marcyverse view we are just building an pioneer (game Hunter) for our solo (1 on 1) game, and I was not feeling like that....

Xavi

1 hour ago, MonCal said:

So scouts and explorers are not good according to the marcyverse view we are just building an pioneer (game Hunter) for our solo (1 on 1) game, and I was not feeling like that....

I find most of the specs are missing something. Solution at my table is easy: waive the cost for extra specs. I only ask that the players have at least a couple 20XP Talents in the old before starting something new.

1 hour ago, MonCal said:

So scouts and explorers are not good according to the marcyverse view we are just building an pioneer (game Hunter) for our solo (1 on 1) game, and I was not feeling like that....

Xavi

Big Game Hunter and Scout are a great combination, as BGH adds the shooting and stealth elements the Scout desperately needs.

Scout by itself feels awful.

The one on one game I write for (for a US player) stars a Lara Croft type character who is a BGH/Scout/Archaeologist, and that combination works really well.

3 hours ago, Maelora said:

Doctor is... okay, but the healer/buffer role feels more like NPC stuff, at least at my table. Are you playing a pure Doctor, kaosoe, or does he have other specs? All the fun stuff seems to be in Soldier/Medic as far as I can see.

Doctor/FS:Ex/Sage

He only just stepped in to sage before the campaign fell apart.

However, it wasn't any of the force talents that defined him or made him fun. I love the doctor and specifically the Stim Application talent. I know Medic has it, but the long-term, more academic, feel of Doctor suited him way better. Plus AoR was only a design point on a roadmap when I first made the character.

18 hours ago, kaosoe said:

Doctor/FS:Ex/Sage He only just stepped in to sage before the campaign fell apart.

However, it wasn't any of the force talents that defined him or made him fun. I love the doctor and specifically the Stim Application talent. I know Medic has it, but the long-term, more academic, feel of Doctor suited him way better. Plus AoR was only a design point on a roadmap when I first made the character.

Well, anything with 4 Force Dice will be awesome by default, that outstrips anything we see in the movies save maybe Palpatine. Even Scout can be awesome if paired with other Specs.

My mini-review above was based on the extensive testing we did on all the Core Specs in our group. We were looking at a) how good it was 'out of the box' for a starting character, and b) how good it was when that tree was filled completely. Doctor, along with a few other specs, felt like a specialist role that few players wanted to play. The only unique thing about it is 'Pressure Point' which is really only used for fighty characters dipping Doctor for a cheap trick. We felt that this Talent is fine for a Doctor, but not as a cheesy pick for a combat character (this more than any other formed the basis of the 'no out of Career specs' for the MarcyVerse).

I've no doubt it can fit concepts well, or it could be well-played; that's not what we were asking. I'm sure your character was great to play and you played him well - my GM PC is a Trader/Fringer and is fun to play despite being saddled with two of the worst (or least useful) specs in existence. We examined the Specs in isolation, or at least with their Career. That's why Scout felt poor in Explorer and great in Spy - all you'd need in the latter is to pick Recruit and grab some of the low-hanging fruit for combat skills and you're good to go.

One problem is that FFG learned how to make better Specs, ones that are more involving or offer more in play. This is why so many Core EOE specs feel lacklustre. Medic and Healer have the fun aspects from the Doctor and also add shooty skills or Force-wizardry. Maybe if they ever do a 2nd edition they could revisit some of these early specs in the light of what came after - give Doctor a capstone Talent or two that wasn't in the later specs, to make it feel unique.

If I was GMing for a pure Doctor, I'd build the game around a hospital or medical facility and make that a focus. On the other hand I might prefer to go for Space MASH and make it a military facility, or get them to take Consular/Healer and run the infirmary at the Harry Potter Space Wizard School. The latter two actually feel more exciting, alas. But 'Space E.R.' would still probably be fun.