20 minutes ago, Vontoothskie said:

(...)also, the leaker showed 0 proof, not a single piece of evidence. it doesnt take a lot to piece together that its fake. in fact, unless it is verified in totality, its proven fake, and everyone claiming to be in the know is a liar. thats how facts work. there are 4 lights god dammit!

You seem to be awfully sure, however your "proof" is not that watertight either. Allegedly the leaker showed some hard evidence to some reddit moderator. If this is true, or the evidence was photoshopped I do not dare to say.

I'm a realist and do not believe any change (introducing new ships and cards and/or having FAQs and erratas) will truly balance the game.

Peek or no peek however, I'm just no fan of uncertainty.

Imagine you want to introduce X Wing to a friend who is already an experienced wargamer say 40K, WMH etc. Since you are good pals with that friend, you warn him there is possibly a tectonic shift to the game meta or even how it would be played. Worse, there's no indication of when...

Ends up, your friend decides to maybe try X Wing after said upheaval is over and done with. This is another person in a holding pattern.

PS. Though I thought I framed my topic sentence carefully and indicated properly that I'm neutral to the leak's contents, some people still attributed me as for or against certain nerfs/boosts etc and even use my comments to advocate for their agendas. I actually don't care (much) about the content of any planned changes.

I'm just mooting that the shroud of uncertainty has negatively impacted my gaming. I have been building less lists and playing less and advocating a little less for the game.

On ‎10‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 3:34 PM, Antigrapist said:

https://www.reddit.com/r/XWingTMG/comments/6pwctu/xwing_faq_leak/

Here you go

Thanks...interesting if true....

On 10/10/2017 at 6:55 PM, Vontoothskie said:

FAQ leak was a hoax.

I doubt it. Before the FAQ leak I heard about those changes (most of them identical) from two independent sources, one is a play tester and the other has friends in another city that play test. It might not have been the final version, particularly as one of my two sources mentioned a different attanni nerf (only applies to pilots with the same PS, not just any two ships) but it was definitely something that was (is?) being ironed out. I also caught wind of the deadeye nerf months before it was implemented from one of these people, so credibility doesn't appear to be in question.

1 minute ago, darthlurker said:

I doubt it. Before the FAQ leak I heard about those changes (most of them identical) from two independent sources, one is a play tester and the other has friends in another city that play test. It might not have been the final version, particularly as one of my two sources mentioned a different attanni nerf (only applies to pilots with the same PS, not just any two ships) but it was definitely something that was (is?) being ironed out. I also caught wind of the deadeye nerf months before it was implemented from one of these people, so credibility doesn't appear to be in question.

Okay. If you haven't, first of all why not, please ask them why we haven't seen anything official yet..

On 2017-10-08 at 4:02 PM, tangoraven said:

This is a gripe.

I'm in a holding pattern for X Wing and was wondering if anyone else felt the same.

The "FAQ leak" indicated potential nerfs to certain builds and indirect boosts to others.

This makes me reluctant to build lists, test builds and practice stuff that may or may not be phased out eventually by a FAQ.

Of course the situation isn't just the leaker's fault. FFG's total lack of response to said leak exacerbated the situation. Even a statement without confirming or denying will be nice.

Building/testing/practicing lists that assumes that the actual FAQ will eventually pan out doesn't work either as even if the leaker was right (and is person of flawless integrity, impeccable judgement and nostradamatic foresight), I have no clue when said FAQ will be released and if it will be altered due to aforesaid leak.

I'm sad to state that my gaming frequency plummeted and I observe that for some others in my local gaming group, that too is happening. We are excited over the new stuff that have been spoiled and probably want to get back into gaming as soon as possible. But we are in a holding pattern.

Gripe over. Sorry.

100% agree. The problem is not the leak. The problem is the "no reaction" from FFG and the extremely long time they take to adress balance problems. Same thing for new card interactions. For example we still dont have an official answer about Genius/ion interaction or minefield/extra ammo. The same thing happen every time a new product get released. They take forever to address issues that should have been handled even before the product are released. I also slowed down my playtime and i'm thinking more an more about selling my stuff...

Just now, Thormind said:

The problem is the "no reaction" from FFG and the extremely long time they take to adress balance problems.

Maybe I‘m naive, but wouldn‘t the following statement have been enough?

“Dear Community, we are aware of the leaked test for a future FAQ. Of course we are aware of the domination by Atanni Mindlink and the Jumpmaster, which is why several playtest teams are currently testing different changes. The ‚leak‘ was one possible version and we have no conclusive data yet to determine what changes are best. We also do not know when we will have enough data, meaning we can‘t give you an estimated date for the new FAQ and possible erratas.“

5 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

Maybe I‘m naive, but wouldn‘t the following statement have been enough?

“Dear Community, we are aware of the leaked test for a future FAQ. Of course we are aware of the domination by Atanni Mindlink and the Jumpmaster, which is why several playtest teams are currently testing different changes. The ‚leak‘ was one possible version and we have no conclusive data yet to determine what changes are best. We also do not know when we will have enough data, meaning we can‘t give you an estimated date for the new FAQ and possible erratas.“

yes :-)

18 minutes ago, Rinzler in a Tie said:

Okay. If you haven't, first of all why not, please ask them why we haven't seen anything official yet..

Since the leak, information has been much less forthcoming, which is understandable as FFG has likely been pressuring everyone to avoid this sort of thing from happening again. The only thing that has been alluded to is that it'll probably be out for regionals, which start in November.

3 minutes ago, Thormind said:

100% agree. The problem is not the leak. The problem is the "no reaction" from FFG...

..."no reaction" was the correct reaction, from a legal and business perspective.

3 minutes ago, Thormind said:

For example we still dont have an official answer about Genius/ion interaction

Yes we do. The rulings given at Nationals (announced before the events started) were that Genius works while ioned. Which is exactly the same as the rules as written on the cards. As always, do what the card says, do not do what the card doesn't say.

11 minutes ago, Thormind said:

The same thing happen every time a new product get released

Hyperbole.

9 minutes ago, darthlurker said:

Since the leak, information has been much less forthcoming, which is understandable as FFG has likely been pressuring everyone to avoid this sort of thing from happening again. The only thing that has been alluded to is that it'll probably be out for regionals, which start in November.

Just in time for the playtesters and all their mates to have had a couple of months extra practice with the post-nerf metagame for a nice healthy advantage.

1 minute ago, Stay On The Leader said:

Just in time for the playtesters and all their mates to have had a couple of months extra practice with the post-nerf metagame for a nice healthy advantage.

Yo. This is huge. And the impact gets bigger and bigger the longer FFG remains silent.

Healthy is putting it lightly at this point. I'm sure these same people know when/where all tournaments/SO events are, too.

I really don't care about the leak. It's either real, or it isn't. Until we have an official announcement, let's say... it's a fanmade FAQ that anyone can choose to use.

...

...

Everyone should try to get to my degree of indifference with this topic.

1 minute ago, Rinzler in a Tie said:

Yo. This is huge. And the impact gets bigger and bigger the longer FFG remains silent.

Healthy is putting it lightly at this point. I'm sure these same people know when/where all tournaments/SO events are, too.

There was a playtester who played the same squad all through the year to MASSIVE success. In preparing for Worlds he suddenly switched to a completely different squad. Two weeks before Worlds his old squad got nerfed into oblivion and he made the top cut with his new squad. Then afterwards he explained that the secret to his success is to play at least a hundred games with your squad before a big tournament. I guess it really helps to know about nerfs well in advance so you can start getting those hundred games of practice in.

Just now, Stay On The Leader said:

Just in time for the playtesters and all their mates to have had a couple of months extra practice with the post-nerf metagame for a nice healthy advantage.

That's always going to be a problem to some extent (with secret play testing), but my point was that I don't believe that they're quite so eager to share everything with their mates anymore. It also makes sense to implement FAQs when the tourney season changes, though a release a few weeks before implementation would be nice.

4 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

There was a playtester who played the same squad all through the year to MASSIVE success. In preparing for Worlds he suddenly switched to a completely different squad. Two weeks before Worlds his old squad got nerfed into oblivion and he made the top cut with his new squad.

There's an easy way to mitigate that, don't tell the playtesters when the new FAQ will be implemented. They might know the nature of the changes beforehand and have some experience (which is inevitable) but at least they won't be able to go all in on a list weeks before anyone else finds out about the upcoming changes. Maybe this is why no one seems to know when the next FAQ will be released.

1 hour ago, FTS Gecko said:

..."no reaction" was the correct reaction, from a legal and business perspective.

Most gaming companies (video and board) aknowledge problems and say they are working on a solution. It's actually good business practice and there is absolutly no legal issue there.

1 hour ago, FTS Gecko said:

Yes we do. The rulings given at Nationals (announced before the events started) were that Genius works while ioned. Which is exactly the same as the rules as written on the cards. As always, do what the card says, do not do what the card doesn't say.

Still not an official FAQ entry. Are we expected to dig into tournament rulings to figure out card interactions now?

1 hour ago, FTS Gecko said:

Hyperbole.

Unfounded. Do a little research and you will find situations like that for every recent releases...

3 hours ago, darthlurker said:

I doubt it. Before the FAQ leak I heard about those changes (most of them identical) from two independent sources, one is a play tester and the other has friends in another city that play test. It might not have been the final version, particularly as one of my two sources mentioned a different attanni nerf (only applies to pilots with the same PS, not just any two ships) but it was definitely something that was (is?) being ironed out. I also caught wind of the deadeye nerf months before it was implemented from one of these people, so credibility doesn't appear to be in question.

credibility is in absolutely in question. you supposedly knowing a trustworthy person is called an anectdote and hearsay, and theres a reason it isnt permitted in court. its meaningless. it doesnt mean your lying or telling the truth, it just doesnt mean anything.

the rumor mill is frequently right, but its wrong a lot too. everyone blabs about whatever they think the secret is right up until its revealed, then rewrite history based on wether its revealed to be true. its bull. if you have proof, prove it. if you dont, then just say you heard a rumor.

3 hours ago, Vontoothskie said:

Credibility is in absolutely in question. You supposedly knowing a trustworthy person is called an anecdote and hearsay, and there's a reason it isn't permitted in court. It's meaningless. It doesn't mean you're lying or telling the truth, it just doesn't mean anything.

Good heavens, I didn't realize that I was testifying before a judge and jury! Give me some time to make screen caps of the pertinent WhatsApp chats from last summer, and then I'll go through all the recordings I have of every conversation I ever hold with a friend or acquaintance and post them here to prove to you beyond a reasonable doubt that what I say is true. /sarcasm

Of course I'm telling you an anecdote, my entire comment was based on my experience. However, if you're saying that I didn't hear about those exact nerfs from two other (unrelated) people before the FAQ leak, then you are, in fact, calling me a liar... not that I particularly care about that, but we should strive for clarity in what we say.

3 hours ago, Vontoothskie said:

if you have proof, prove it. if you dont, then just say you heard a rumor.

I didn't say that I heard rumors because according to my observations they are more than just rumors. Of course, I accept that to you this is all a rumor because I haven't proven my statements to you (and due to the illicitness of the information leaks I won't even make the attempt), but to me my direct source alone is above rumor level, and having three independent sources be mostly in agreement cements the leak's authenticity in my view.

3 hours ago, Vontoothskie said:

The rumor mill is frequently right, but it's wrong a lot too. Everyone blabs about whatever they think the secret is right up until it's revealed, then rewrites history based on whether it's revealed to be true. It's bull.

Yes, that happens, but as far as I can tell that has no bearing on this conversation as nothing has been officially revealed yet.

I find it ironic that you seem to want proof that can hold water in a court of law to back my anecdotal evidence disputing your (as of yet) unsupported assertion that the "FAQ leak was a hoax". Hold your own arguments to the same standard. In my view we're just two people having an ultimately inconsequential conversation about our interpretation of what happened based on our own personal experience, because once the FAQ is released all doubts will be cleared up anyway.

7 hours ago, darthlurker said:

That's always going to be a problem to some extent (with secret play testing), but my point was that I don't believe that they're quite so eager to share everything with their mates anymore. It also makes sense to implement FAQs when the tourney season changes, though a release a few weeks before implementation would be nice.

There's an easy way to mitigate that, don't tell the playtesters when the new FAQ will be implemented. They might know the nature of the changes beforehand and have some experience (which is inevitable) but at least they won't be able to go all in on a list weeks before anyone else finds out about the upcoming changes. Maybe this is why no one seems to know when the next FAQ will be released.

Another easy way, playtesters are banned from high level competition, but receive prizes as such for play testing. (Example, can't play at nationals, but get an alt art howlrunner and a set of R2-D2 templates as compensation.)

8 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

Maybe I‘m naive, but wouldn‘t the following statement have been enough?

“Dear Community, we are aware of the leaked test for a future FAQ. Of course we are aware of the domination by Atanni Mindlink and the Jumpmaster, which is why several playtest teams are currently testing different changes. The ‚leak‘ was one possible version and we have no conclusive data yet to determine what changes are best. We also do not know when we will have enough data, meaning we can‘t give you an estimated date for the new FAQ and possible erratas.“

source?

12 minutes ago, FlyingAnchors said:

Another easy way, playtesters are banned from high level competition, but receive prizes as such for play testing. (Example, can't play at nationals, but get an alt art howlrunner and a set of R2-D2 templates as compensation.)

Better, lock in lists for the entire tournament season (maybe a small sideboard allowed for one change per season) and release FAQs (akin to the last palp FAQ) just before the last leg. If the top players are really top players, they'll still do well, if its because they were simply running OP netlisted lists, they deserve to lose.

3 minutes ago, Gadgetron said:

Better, lock in lists for the entire tournament season (maybe a small sideboard allowed for one change per season) and release FAQs (akin to the last palp FAQ) just before the last leg. If the top players are really top players, they'll still do well, if its because they were simply running OP netlisted lists, they deserve to lose.

It might work, but not for x-wing. Just look at upcoming regional season, we're getting 2 waves of ships dropped on us in the middle of the season.

4 minutes ago, FlyingAnchors said:

Another easy way, playtesters are banned from high level competition, but receive prizes as such for play testing. (Example, can't play at nationals, but get an alt art howlrunner and a set of R2-D2 templates as compensation.)

Infallible and harsh, but sweetened by prizes... not a bad idea. I'd add that such a ban should only apply for a limited time after the faq/new wave becomes tournament legal (say a month) so playtesters aren't forced to miss an entire season of regionals/opens/whatever and everyone else has a chance to figure out the new power lists and practice them.

6 minutes ago, darthlurker said:

Infallible and harsh, but sweetened by prizes... not a bad idea. I'd add that such a ban should only apply for a limited time after the faq/new wave becomes tournament legal (say a month) so playtesters aren't forced to miss an entire season of regionals/opens/whatever and everyone else has a chance to figure out the new power lists and practice them.

I would just say nationals and worlds if the FAQ they tested is legal during the timeframe of those events. Not everyone gets to go to those anyway, but if in the future we have more open play testing people could participate with out traveling. And the ban doesn't hurt them locally.

edit: I see what you're saying about the timeframe, and I like that better I think.

1 hour ago, FlyingAnchors said:

I would just say nationals and worlds if the FAQ they tested is legal during the timeframe of those events. Not everyone gets to go to those anyway, but if in the future we have more open play testing people could participate with out traveling. And the ban doesn't hurt them locally.

edit: I see what you're saying about the timeframe, and I like that better I think.

I think if you excluded play testers from the cut of National/System/Worlds the problem would be largely fixed. That way all the foreknowledge in the world won't get them a tournament win. Guarantee them their prizes during play testing is probably the best compensation they could receive.