42 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

FCS, ASTS (for crits for your ability and to keep cost down), Autothrusters. 3 passive dice mods and the action of your choice, anything else is a luxury.

If you look at it as "We heard you like Quickdraw. Here's a more expensive Quickdraw with Boost and Autothrusters", it's a really very reasonable looking ship. I think they're going to be good buddies.

3 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

If you look at it as "We heard you like Quickdraw. Here's a more expensive Quickdraw with Boost and Autothrusters", it's a really very reasonable looking ship. I think they're going to be good buddies.

I'm very much looking forward to trying out some Silencer, SF, and FO trios in the future.

10 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

I'm very much looking forward to trying out some Silencer, SF, and FO trios in the future.

Yep. There are proven ships in there and you get a lot of point flexibility.

26 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

If you look at it as "We heard you like Quickdraw. Here's a more expensive Quickdraw with Boost and Autothrusters", it's a really very reasonable looking ship. I think they're going to be good buddies.

Depending on the Quickdraw build, you might be able to fit a standard Omega Leader in there as well.

Triple Imp aces is an archetype that's been proven not to deliver high level results in this metagame, but I think Kylo at least fit nicely into it. He's probably not far behind Quickdraw or Vessery in power level and offers something a little different.

If there is ever curbs on the turret & bombs then Imp aces are in a really really nice spot and the Silencer would definitely be in the mix.

3 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

Depending on the Quickdraw build, you might be able to fit a standard Omega Leader in there as well.

Definitely possible. Kylo just has to justify his place over Vessery, that's all.

4 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

Definitely possible. Kylo just has to justify his place over Vessery, that's all.

Without putting Kylo on the table, I'd guess he's probably about even with an x7 Vessery in terms of damage output and survivability. A good player should be able to exploit Kylo's superior PS and dial though, and ISYTDS is a wild card.

57 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

Without putting Kylo on the table, I'd guess he's probably about even with an x7 Vessery in terms of damage output and survivability. A good player should be able to exploit Kylo's superior PS and dial though, and ISYTDS is a wild card.

Boost and Autothrusters go a long way.

24 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

Boost and Autothrusters go a long way.

so does being a LOT cheaper

basically, I don't think Vess is a relevant comparison to Kylo. Dude can be like 34 points with x7 and crackshot for basically one of the best jousters ever despite relatively low PS. Kylo is a high ps premium arcdodger (I'm guessing from what we know). Completely different shoes to fill

26 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

Boost and Autothrusters go a long way.

So does white k-turns, free evades and free target locks.

1 minute ago, ficklegreendice said:

so does being a LOT cheaper

basically, I don't think Vess is a relevant comparison to Kylo. Dude can be like 34 points with x7 and crackshot for basically one of the best jousters ever despite relatively low PS. Kylo is a high ps premium arcdodger (I'm guessing from what we know). Completely different shoes to fill

Except, as I explained, he's not an arc-dodger at all because 1) arc-dodging isn't a thing, and 2) he's statted and loaded to joust.

Everyone thought Fenn was an arc-dodger, but he wasn't.

I mean, he has both boost and BR in his action bar alongside green turns and Autothrusters. He has the capability to be an arc dodger. Much like Fenn Rau, he's a jouster/arc dodger hybrid. He is capable of playing either role.

7 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

Except, as I explained, he's not an arc-dodger at all because 1) arc-dodging isn't a thing, and 2) he's statted and loaded to joust.

Everyone thought Fenn was an arc-dodger, but he wasn't.

an arc dodger dodges arcs

advanced sensors with green turns with built in boost and primed thrusters make it basically the most slippery thing in the game. the amount of positioning flexibility is basically unrivaled. It's not just about having boost/roll (ala viper) but a combination of upgrades that just never let up on consistent maneuverability and a rather staggering amount of ways it can move

Kylo specially really doesn't have the mods to be a dedicated jouster, especially not at his price range. Soontir has more mods than him, but less arc-dodging capability

Just now, ficklegreendice said:

an arc dodger dodges arcs

advanced sensors with green turns with built in boost and primed thrusters make it basically the most slippery thing in the game. the amount of positioning flexibility is basically unrivaled

Kylo specially really doesn't have the mods to be a dedicated jouster, especially not at his price range. Soontir has more mods than him, but less arc-dodging capability

Here's the comprehensive list of dedicated arc dodgers that have been competitive in the last two years:

1. Jake Farrell

4 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

Here's the comprehensive list of dedicated arc dodgers that have been competitive in the last two years:

1. Jake Farrell

I never said Ren was going to be competitive, only that he was an arc-dodger (and probably the best at arc-dodging given the sheer array of options at his disposal which note does not necessarily make him THE best arc-dodger as an overall ship, simply the best at dodging arcs specifically)

But arc-dodging isn't a thing. It's not a strategy. It's like a buzzword you use when you don't have a strategy because you can't dodge the arcs, not all of them. And unless you're Soontir with his free focus and his stealth device and his Palp cover then trying to dodge arcs just leaves you in other arcs without any dice mods so you take the damage anyway.

12 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

But arc-dodging isn't a thing. It's not a strategy. It's like a buzzword you use when you don't have a strategy because you can't dodge the arcs, not all of them. And unless you're Soontir with his free focus and his stealth device and his Palp cover then trying to dodge arcs just leaves you in other arcs without any dice mods so you take the damage anyway.

arc-dodging is a thing, it's a capability of the ship

the strategy would be using that capability when your defensive modifications otherwise wouldn't cut it

as a jouster, re: just trading dice with ships, the Silencer is going to come up quite short against the x7. It's costed basically the same as the x7 (x7 Steele being 33, two points less than kylo for 2 ps less) but the x7 just sails past it with its free evade action. And unless the Silencer gets a white-180 maneuver, the white 4k is just going to exacerbate the x7's advantage to the nth degree.

If a First Order Vanguard or autothruster Test Pilot Whatever (ps 7) comes out to 33 points just like x7 Steele, then the comparison gets more fair. Otherwise, the x7 is just going to outvalue the **** out of the silencer.

And you're absolutely right, the Silencer does not have much in the way of dice mods to fall back to ala Soontir. That's why I'm personally not terribly excited by it.

I think we're in broad agreement, just arguing over details.

I think the Silencer is a tier 1.5 jouster, but like you say it's probably not quite as good as /x7 Vessery or Quickdraw. However I think being a Tier 1.5 jouster is better than it trying to be any tier of 'arc-dodger', because that's just a dead end if you can't stack a ton of defensive mods.

Wait, ships still have arcs? I mean sure, Imperial ships still have arcs, but rebel and scum ships haven't used arcs in ages.

1 hour ago, HolySorcerer said:

Wait, ships still have arcs? I mean sure, Imperial ships still have arcs, but rebel and scum ships haven't used arcs in ages.

Every single ship in the game has an arc.

What's an arc?

1 minute ago, Stay On The Leader said:

What's an arc?

The shaded part(s) of the base tile. Come on Edrio, you should know this stuff by now.

The black bit?

8 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

What's an arc?

it's that thing you cast with that *** cannon

oh wait, empire don't get those

10 hours ago, HolySorcerer said:

Wait, ships still have arcs? I mean sure, Imperial ships still have arcs, but rebel and scum ships haven't used arcs in ages.

You might have a point for Rebels (Miranda, TLT Nym, Dash don't give a **** about arcs, although FSR does on all ships and so does Rey), but for Scum the most powerful 2 lists do care a great deal about arcs:Triple Scouts has arc-locked torpedoes, and Dengar Nym has an arc-locked missile and Dengar's ability.

Edit: Removed Rey from the don't care about arc list (was there by mistake.