I am finally taking a step out from behind the screen and the man stepping behind it has selected Force and Destiny as our next gaming experience. This is our group’s first foray into a narrative dice game. We have many years of various D&D and Travellers editions as well as short stints of other RPGs including SWSE under our collective belts.

As a first pass for a character I am thinking of a Iktotchi Soresu Defender whose mother was a padawan whose master sacrificed himself to save her from Order 66. She went underground eventually having a child. Knowing that they would always be pursued she instructed her son some of the basics of the force when he was old enough to defend himself. However, as she was just a padawan herself her instruction was not always complete or necessarily accurate. She has now gone missing and this is the motivation for our young lad to venture out into the wider galaxy to find her. This is just a first pass and subject to change to fit in better with the other characters and the GM’s storyline.

Anyway enough back story and onto the crunch and the questions…

Ideally I’d like to go 2 3 4 2 3 1 for my characteristics. However, this takes all of my starting XP. So I am presented with several options and wanted to know what people thought was the best.

1. I could go with these and accept that I won’t have Soresu Technique until after the first session.

2. I could drop my agility by one. Con: I would like to build towards a Double Bladed Lightsaber this wouldn’t work, but until I have Ebb/Flow and/or Iron Soul I’d probably be dedicating a lot of Advantage to Strain recovery anyway.

3. Drop Intelligence by one. Con: Intelligence is my main attack stat and covers a lot of skills and my out of combat utility.

4. Drop Willpower by one. Con: Willpower seems super important in this game.

5. Go with 4 3 2 2 3 1. Pro: Increases my soak and wound threshold. Save me experience by not taking certain talents. Defensive Circle and Strategic Form are nice but a little niche. Con: Almost no out of combat utility. Not really going to be able to build my own lightsaber or mod one much.

6. I could go with Polis Massan. Con: Low Soak and Wound Threshhold. Something about this just feels a little too power game-y for me. However, doing a back story that connects me to Obi-Wan and the birth of Luke and Leia could be interesting.

So what do people think of these options?

I’d also like to ask more experienced people their thoughts on talent progression. I was thinking of running down Soresu for Improved Parry/Reflect and Dedication. (Parry/Soresu Terchnique/Reflect/Improve Parry/Reflect/Reflect/Improved Reflect/Dedication). After that a lot of possibilities open up.

1. I could fill out more of the Soresu Tree.

2. I could grab 20 points in Ebb/Flow

3. I could grab 40 points to Strength in Sense

4. I could add a Second Talent Tree. I love the flavor and the mechanics of both Ascetic and Hermit. But I don’t know how usable an Animal Companion will be in this Campaign. Additionally, Animal Bond would be better after FR2. Iron Souls requirement of 2 encumberance would be tough especially with a double bladed lightsaber but with high intelligience and making my own I can likely lower its encumberance.

5. Adding points to Lightsaber skill would also be a good idea at some point.

Thank you for your time and your opinions.

P.S. One last question. A search on the topic has revealed that as of a year or two ago the developers were looking into giving an official ruling on whether Defensive/Deflection stack with Defense since by RAW they say “increases.” Has that official ruling ever been released?

Dont sweat so much on the characteristics, having 3s in your main ones is good, having 4 is great, the jump from 4 to 5 isnt as good ad the jump from 3 to 4.

So you could make up the shortfall by getting to Dedication. In fact with my Warden I started as a Nikto and only put 30 xp into willpower ( we did start with +50 earned xp and got dedication to boost willpower to 4 on the end of my second session, so I had FR2 and a host of good talents by that point).

So you could start with 2 AGI and boost to 3 at that stage. or start with 3 INT and boost to 4 later which should be around the same time you pick up the talents you need the Soresu technique with.

It sounds like you are over thinking it ( I did this with my Warden also), start with your concept and have a rough plan in mind but develop it the way the game directs you, so if you find yourself needing more parry buy more parry, if you find yourself lacking in some way then go there

Also dont prioritise talents over skills, Yes its great having a talent like street smarts which loses you a setback on a streetwise check, but dont forget buying a rank in Streetwise itself is always on, and may be the better option for the majority of checks.

I would perhaps suggest 3, 3, 3, 2, 3, 1 (so raise Brawn, Agility, and Intellect). Brawn is useful for a Soresu Defender because they're supposed to be tanks. I don't think that Soresu Technique will be achievable, but it shouldn't be an issue as long as the GM isn't an experience miser.

Speaking of progression, those are all good choices. Sense is useful in combat, but a higher Force rating is nice with powers, and Defender doesn't have an extra rank. Flow is good for strain management, but Defender also has Supreme Parry, which cuts down on the strain drain when parrying (but not reflecting).

As for Ascetic, with the exception of the optional Slippery Minded, it doesn't have any talents that key off of one skill, so it works with nearly any characteristic combination. It also has, what, 5 ranks of Grit? Which will help when suffering strain.

the ascetic also allows you to get pseudo FR3 by usding empty soul, although you will never get a double result of theb pip shade you want, but always guaranteed one of the shade you need

I would make sure that Brawn, Intellect and Willpower are all at 3. Mechanically speaking, I might pass on the Double-bladed lightsaber and go for a species with Agility 1. I'm not usually one for dump stats, but this guy would be just fine without it. Also, since the Iktotchi get a free rank in Vigilance, it's kind of a waste of the fact that both Guardian and Soresu Defender have it on their starting lists. I always recommend going for those double free ranks in skills, but you can't do triple ranks.

That said, that's for the mechanical benefit. An Iktotchi Guardian with a double-bladed saber is pretty cool, so if that's what you want, then go for it! You could easily do a 333231 spread. This will let you pick up any weapon in the game and be decent with it. While Guardians an use Intellect for their Lightsaber attacks, you really don't need to. Defensive Circle and Strategic Form, while good, are going to see far less use than the other bottom-of-tree lightsaber talents. Why? Because they're not attacks. A Niman Disciple is going to use Move Closer with every attack, so he pretty much needs to use Willpower. The same rule applies for Hawk-Bat Swoop, Makashi Finish, and Disruptive Strike. If you have 'em, you wanna use 'em. A Soresu Defender on the other hand, will use Defensive Circle and Strategic Form sometimes. Possibly several times in one fight, but not for every single attack. The difficulty is also only 3 purple, and isn't subject to Defense or Adversary, so as long as your Intellect and Lightsaber skill are decent, you should hit that pretty reliably. If you want, you can jack Brawn up through the roof, bringing your Soak and WT with it.

I would make sure that Brawn, Intellect and Willpower are all at 3. Mechanically speaking, I might pass on the Double-bladed lightsaber and go for a species with Agility 1. I'm not usually one for dump stats, but this guy would be just fine without it. Also, since the Iktotchi get a free rank in Vigilance, it's kind of a waste of the fact that both Guardian and Soresu Defender have it on their starting lists. I always recommend going for those double free ranks in skills, but you can't do triple ranks.

That said, that's for the mechanical benefit. An Iktotchi Guardian with a double-bladed saber is pretty cool, so if that's what you want, then go for it! You could easily do a 333231 spread. This will let you pick up any weapon in the game and be decent with it. While Guardians an use Intellect for their Lightsaber attacks, you really don't need to. Defensive Circle and Strategic Form, while good, are going to see far less use than the other bottom-of-tree lightsaber talents. Why? Because they're not attacks. A Niman Disciple is going to use Move Closer with every attack, so he pretty much needs to use Willpower. The same rule applies for Hawk-Bat Swoop, Makashi Finish, and Disruptive Strike. If you have 'em, you wanna use 'em. A Soresu Defender on the other hand, will use Defensive Circle and Strategic Form sometimes. Possibly several times in one fight, but not for every single attack. The difficulty is also only 3 purple, and isn't subject to Defense or Adversary, so as long as your Intellect and Lightsaber skill are decent, you should hit that pretty reliably. If you want, you can jack Brawn up through the roof, bringing your Soak and WT with it.

Play the character, not the game.

I am with masterstrider on this. What is your character about? You have a pretty cool backstory/setup, but what about the character? Don't min/max the character, but create the character you want. In my group, we talk through what the intro to the Star Wars movie for our character would be like (think the beginning of a James Bond movie) and work backwards to a PC build. There is bonus XP if the player writes up backstory (which the GM will use against/for the PC in the game). We enjoy the RP part so much more when we build a character instead of building stats. I think your Iktotchi Soresu Defender can be so much more entertaining than just PC23431v0.

Myself I like as many stats as possible at 3. It' a nice average. It also means you won't fail 3/4 of your rolls.

After you are playing a session or two you will have experience to spend and have a better idea of "who" your pc is and how you see him growing.

Talents and skills will come but it takes a lot to build up your stats.

Don' be afraid of being weak in a few areas though... that's why you have a party.

And I've seen more than a few times where it was the weakest player with the longest shot (2g vs 2r,2p) who actually succeeds.

6 hours ago, jayc007 said:

And I've seen more than a few times where it was the weakest player with the longest shot (2g vs 2r,2p) who actually succeeds.

The great advantage of a system where all dice can come up blank, as long as you have 1 positive dice, success is always possible.

On 10/10/2017 at 5:25 PM, masterstrider said:

Play the character, not the game.

On 10/30/2017 at 7:03 PM, Alittlejedi said:

I am with masterstrider on this. What is your character about? You have a pretty cool backstory/setup, but what about the character? Don't min/max the character, but create the character you want. In my group, we talk through what the intro to the Star Wars movie for our character would be like (think the beginning of a James Bond movie) and work backwards to a PC build. There is bonus XP if the player writes up backstory (which the GM will use against/for the PC in the game). We enjoy the RP part so much more when we build a character instead of building stats. I think your Iktotchi Soresu Defender can be so much more entertaining PC23431v0.

Yes... Play the game right , OP.

You can't RP and min/max at the same time!

You clearly don't know how fun works.

?

Actually, I do know how fun works. But thanks for your astute observation.

I was just offering an opinion on what works for our group (much like you did in your post) and we start with character creation. Good for us? Yep. Not as good others? Also a yes. As for "play the game right "? Heck, play however you want. If you want to a murder hobo with a maxed brawn and five dump stats, go for it. If you can optimize the stats/talents for your character vision, that is great also. If you want a pure killer with a maxed brawn and background reasons on why everything else is average, again also great.

Some might be able to min/max and RP, but that is rare in thing in my experience. But it's really about person and the group though. I was just saying to focusing on the RP of the RPG tends to have a better outcome in our games. Basically, there is no universal "Play the game right". Just "Play as you enjoy", right?

In all honesty, you're better off having three characteristics at a 3 instead of trying to wrangle a 4. Brawn and Willpower are both very helpful to a Soresu Defender, as Brawn determines your Wound Threshold and being able to default to Brawn in case you can't use Soresu Technique for some reason (such as a critical injury that penalizes Intellect-based checks) isn't a bad thing. Willpower's good since it determines your Strain Threshold and helps your Discipline and Vigilance checks.

Having a 4 in either Brawn or Intellect is appealing, but unless you're playing a species that starts with a 3 in one or even both of those it's really not worth the points as the mechanical advantage between a 3 and a 4 in your lead characteristic isn't quite as great as it seems.

Okay, if you reaaally want help with your Soresu Defender, I will share an example of one I am playing...purely as a guide. How you build it really depends on how you want to play the character.

Name/Class : Koduu - Guardian: Soresu Defender

Race : Drall (from Suns of Fortune) base stats: 1, 1, 4, 2, 2, 2; WT 8+Br, ST 12+Wp. 90XP, Education 1, Skilled Assistance.

Starting Stats : Br 2, Ag 2, In 4, Cn 2, Wp 3, Pr 3. I wanted a character who was intelligent, didn't engage in combat without a reason, and tried to talk people out of violence before turning on his lightsaber. So counter to the typical Guardian, he was wise, charismatic an intelligent - like the old swashbuckling heroes that inspired the class. In other words, he's a cool mofo .

Skills : Cool 1, Discipline 2, Education 1, Lightsaber 2, Vigilance 1. Cool and Vigilance are important for a warrior as it determines your initiative.

Talents : Parry 2, Toughened 1, Defensive Stance 1, Soresu Technique. Given I am going with Soresu Technique (using Intelligece as my Lightsaber stat), means that combat should be swift and any extra Adv generated can be used to recover strain for more Parry. Combat technique is generally full attack - aiming twice at the cost of 2 strain but gaining 2 boost die (for YYGGBB vs PP) so you can get a critical and end the encounter. Later, I will gain Parry (Supreme), which lets you tank in combat while your team shoots the opponent to pieces. Take the Guarded Stance maneuver which adds +1 to your melee defense - this can be stacked twice - FAQ'd. This adds longevity to the entire party since you can parry away the damage, and add penalties to your opponent. In narrative terms, the Guardian is doing their job by protecting his allies from being slaughtered by the "big baddy", at the cost of their personal safety - a true hero.

Starting equipment : Concealing Robes. Basic Lightsaber. That's all I was given by the GM.

Upgrades : Lots of options here. Focusing on either Parry or Reflect is beneficial as it lets you focus on one type of combat at a time. Splitting your attention also means splitting your effectiveness. "Patience!" is key here. Also, Defensive Circle is difficult to pull off, so may save that for when your lightsaber skills are better. At worst, you can buy armour with Defence 1 quite easily, so no point burning XP on talents that could be better used elsewhere.

Don't forget that you're only in combat around 1/3 of the time, so think about what you would like your character to do when they're not owning people like a badass samurai warrior. Perhaps they want to become a negotiator and move into Peacekeeper, or a healer and move into Protector. Alternatively, staying in the one class and buffing those skills is also a great idea.

Or, you may want to expand on your mastery of the force. Enhance (brawn and agility trees) is a fantastic option and makes you very versatile in an out of combat. Also, if you want to track people, Seek is nice. Want to be persuasive? Try Influence. Perhaps you would like to read people better or sharpen your reflexes. Sense is your friend. If you want to be a shadow warrior, look at Misdirect.

If you want to throw Starships around, this may not be the class for you. But you could look into Hermit, Sage or even Seer to give you some extra Force Rating.

I hope that helps you understand the mechanics behind the character. But to help you make the decisions, I recommend you work out who your character is and what they want to do. Working with your gaming group to break up some roles is a good idea and will prevent on too much overlap and gives everyone an opportunity to shine in their area.

MS

Another example of a Soresu Defender (much higher level, combined with other specs) is my signature character, Korath Lorren .

1 minute ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Another example of a Soresu Defender (much higher level, combined with other specs) is my signature character, Korath Lorren .

That dude is a beast. What would he even define as a "challenging encounter" these days?

Read the Jedi Quest IC thread, and you'll find out.

Ok, this made me laugh (form the IC)

17 hours ago, Alittlejedi said:

Ok, this made me laugh (form the IC)

// That's another 15 damage minus soak. How do you want to handle it? //

Like

//maa't uses reflect and falls unconscious//

Well, to be fair, Matt's character was facing eight minion squads single-handedly, without the benefit of Supreme Reflect , so...

I was the designated hitter in my group as my mates already chose a Consular and a Sentinel so here is what I went with. I figured they were kind of squishy as one was a talker and the other a tech/pilot type so I wanted to be able to defend us as best as possible. As a Jedi, I didn’t want to be gaining conflict by attacking everything we came across so I maximized my defense to try and make sure I survived any first round backstabs to drag them out of whatever they got themselves into.

Arkanian

B:3, A:2, I:3, C:2, W:3, P:1

Skills: Discipline, Medicine, Resilience, Vigilance, Lightsaber 2, Lore

Talents: Sense Basic, Control Upgrade, Duration Upgrade

Talents: Defensive Stance, Parry

I took the +10xp from Morality

Since your Brawn and Intelligence are the same you have time to grab the Soresu Technique. You get a bit more soak as you are the “Defender.” And you are practically impossible to hit out of the gate. Obviously you’ll want to dump your Dedication into Intelligence but I think this gives you a very strong start. Obviously you can edit slightly for other races but I liked the idea of later getting Genetic Alterations and Cybernetics so Arkanian seemed a good choice.

On 11/1/2017 at 7:44 PM, masterstrider said:

Take the double defence maneuver which adds two setback to your opponents attacks.

What's this?

If your're aiming for ascetic (iron soul, empty soul, etc.) I'd forgo the double bladed lightsaber because the awesome talents are only going to work if you keep your total encumbrance to 2 and a double bladed lightsaber has encumbrance 2 all by itself.

On 11/12/2017 at 0:07 AM, TheShard said:

On 11/2/2017 at 10:44 AM, masterstrider said:

Take the double defence maneuver which adds two setback to your opponents attacks.

What's this?

Guarded stance. You can forgo your Action and instead take 2 maneuvers to use Guarded Stance twice to gain +2 to your melee defense, (F&D p207). Before you guys get crabby about it not being possible - it's been FAQ'd. Or you can argue with member 2P51 about it.

It's a great way to tank. Or, you can even take your Action, burn 2 strain to gain an additional maneuver and attack while using Guarded Stance. However, you will gain setback to your attack. It says it only adds a single setback, but I would argue that activating it twice would add a second, mirroring the penalty you give your attackers.

On 11/1/2017 at 7:44 PM, masterstrider said:

Okay, if you reaaally want help with your Soresu Defender, I will share an example of one I am playing...purely as a guide. How you build it really depends on how you want to play the character.

Name/Class : Koduu - Guardian: Soresu Defender

Race : Drall (from Suns of Fortune) base stats: 1, 1, 4, 2, 2, 2; WT 8+Br, ST 12+Wp. 90XP, Education 1, Skilled Assistance.

Starting Stats : Br 2, Ag 2, In 4, Cn 2, Wp 3, Pr 3. I wanted a character who was intelligent, didn't engage in combat without a reason, and tried to talk people out of violence before turning on his lightsaber. So counter to the typical Guardian, he was wise, charismatic an intelligent - like the old swashbuckling heroes that inspired the class. In other words, he's a cool mofo .

Skills : Cool 1, Discipline 2, Education 1, Lightsaber 2, Vigilance 1. Cool and Vigilance are important for a warrior as it determines your initiative.

Talents : Parry 2, Toughened 1, Defensive Stance 1, Soresu Technique. Given I am going with Soresu Technique (using Intelligece as my Lightsaber stat), means that combat should be swift and any extra Adv generated can be used to recover strain for more Parry. Combat technique is generally full attack - aiming twice at the cost of 2 strain but gaining 2 boost die (for YYGGBB vs PP) so you can get a critical and end the encounter. Later, I will gain Parry (Supreme), which lets you tank in combat while your team shoots the opponent to pieces. Take the Guarded Stance maneuver which adds +1 to your melee defense - this can be stacked twice - FAQ'd. This adds longevity to the entire party since you can parry away the damage, and add penalties to your opponent. In narrative terms, the Guardian is doing their job by protecting his allies from being slaughtered by the "big baddy", at the cost of their personal safety - a true hero.

Starting equipment : Concealing Robes. Basic Lightsaber. That's all I was given by the GM.

Upgrades : Lots of options here. Focusing on either Parry or Reflect is beneficial as it lets you focus on one type of combat at a time. Splitting your attention also means splitting your effectiveness. "Patience!" is key here. Also, Defensive Circle is difficult to pull off, so may save that for when your lightsaber skills are better. At worst, you can buy armour with Defence 1 quite easily, so no point burning XP on talents that could be better used elsewhere.

Don't forget that you're only in combat around 1/3 of the time, so think about what you would like your character to do when they're not owning people like a badass samurai warrior. Perhaps they want to become a negotiator and move into Peacekeeper, or a healer and move into Protector. Alternatively, staying in the one class and buffing those skills is also a great idea.

Or, you may want to expand on your mastery of the force. Enhance (brawn and agility trees) is a fantastic option and makes you very versatile in an out of combat. Also, if you want to track people, Seek is nice. Want to be persuasive? Try Influence. Perhaps you would like to read people better or sharpen your reflexes. Sense is your friend. If you want to be a shadow warrior, look at Misdirect.

If you want to throw Starships around, this may not be the class for you. But you could look into Hermit, Sage or even Seer to give you some extra Force Rating.

I hope that helps you understand the mechanics behind the character. But to help you make the decisions, I recommend you work out who your character is and what they want to do. Working with your gaming group to break up some roles is a good idea and will prevent on too much overlap and gives everyone an opportunity to shine in their area.

MS

What was your choice for a second spec?

On 11/13/2017 at 11:23 PM, TheShard said:

What was your choice for a second spec?

Haven't chosen yet. In my opnion, the Soresu Defender is very much the "default" Lightsaber specialist. It does it's job well, but doesn't really develop any other parts of the game other than combat. It's great as a mono-class, but it can be a bit bland. In saying that, I have considered the following as potential options:

Colonist - Politico : Adds all the social skills as career skills and you can choose a few more with the Well Rounded talent.

Mystic - Advisor : Same reason as above, minus Well Rounded, adding Force Rating +1.

Consular - Ascetic : This paired with the Soresu Defender specialisation would make for an awesome and very iconic Obi-Wan style character. The Ascetic has a talent called Iron Soul that replenishes all strain at the end of an encounter, provided you carry less than 2 encumbrance. That's pretty nifty and very thematic, representing the "tireless Jedi" standing vigil over his companions, dispatching enemies without even breaking a sweat. It also has a lot of Grit, which is also handy for tanking and using your Soresu abilities.

Sentinel - Artisan : Gives access to a fairly cheap Force Rating +1 and adds Mechanics and Computers as career skills, which is very handy for someone with Int 4.