I like the three types of techicues for every school, even though I have to say that I am a little surprised to see the shugenja schools all go for shuji and none for kiho, but maybe we will get that for a shugenja school that we have not seen yet, like the Agasha shugenja.

Also I wonder if the could be done other interesting combination, like maybe have the Miromoto bushi also have access to kiho instead of shuji, or the Asako courtier have kiho instead of kata like plenty of courtier seem to have.

Kuni go for Invocations, Kata, Rituals. No Shuji.

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like maybe have the Miromoto bushi also have access to kiho instead of shuji

I'm not expecting leaping like fleas or punching with fire, but I am hoping niten is a benefit (as in X, plus Y while wielding the daisho), rather than a disguised penalty. (don't suffer Z for wielding a daisho)

Rituals is for everyone (and Maho is for everyone who is tainted), so every school has effectively 2 "variable" technique groups.

59 minutes ago, WHW said:

Kuni go for Invocations, Kata, Rituals. No Shuji.

Yes, I noticed that, that was what sparked my thoughts about the combinations of the techniques that schools have and how there might be room for interesting exceptions.

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Only characters with 1 or more
school ranks in a school that lists “rituals” among its available techniques
can purchase rituals.

This makes me suspect that FFG intends for at least one school without rituals in the full game.

shugenja (in most instances) are always described as holding a social position as priests. Makes sense they get access to the social power set.

3 hours ago, Norgrath said:

This makes me suspect that FFG intends for at least one school without rituals in the full game.

Yes, I could imagine shadowlands schools that have maho instead of rituals, or maybe some lowe class schools that also don't have that, I mean imagine a geisha school that just has shuji or an ashigaru school that just works with kata. Of course there is also the posibility that ronin schools might have only two types of techinques.

Plenty room in the design sapce because of that decision.

Is three technique types too many? I feel like everyone having rituals is sort of boring I'd rather have two to make it have more impact.

17 hours ago, MOONOVERRUNE said:

Is three technique types too many? I feel like everyone having rituals is sort of boring I'd rather have two to make it have more impact.

To a certain extent I agree, but I think a major part of the problem is mitigated by rituals not adding to most school advancement, making them an unappealing option for most save priests. I mean, the same watering down could be said about Shuji, which everyone seems to get. But the fact that courtier's actually advance by learning them means that they will, with very few exceptions, be the one's most likely to learn them. Now other random persons will have maybe one or two over the course of their whole advancement, but courtiers, by design will have 6-8 of them.

Sure there might be some bushi or courtiers out there that know a ritual or two, but every shugenja more or less has 2 by default, and is likely to learn others in the final print of the rules.

10 hours ago, SonofScarlet said:

To a certain extent I agree, but I think a major part of the problem is mitigated by rituals not adding to most school advancement, making them an unappealing option for most save priests.

I actually do plan to get Rituals for my Akodo Commander. Both Commune and Divination have a lot of utility for a meager 6 xp.

On ‎08‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 1:38 AM, Drudenfusz said:

Yes, I could imagine shadowlands schools that have maho instead of rituals, or maybe some lowe class schools that also don't have that, I mean imagine a geisha school that just has shuji or an ashigaru school that just works with kata. Of course there is also the posibility that ronin schools might have only two types of techinques.

Plenty room in the design sapce because of that decision.

Indeed. I would assume we'll end up getting 'clan' sourcebooks (because that gives you an aesthetically - and economically - pleasing number of supplements), one for each major clan and one (maybe) for minor clans, but an 'outcast/lower classes' supplement with Geisha (courtier analogue), Ronin, and Ashigaru Veterans would be quite an interesting one, and the latter two probably (and the latter one definitely) shouldn't have rituals.

3 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Indeed. I would assume we'll end up getting 'clan' sourcebooks (because that gives you an aesthetically - and economically - pleasing number of supplements), one for each major clan and one (maybe) for minor clans, but an 'outcast/lower classes' supplement with Geisha (courtier analogue), Ronin, and Ashigaru Veterans would be quite an interesting one, and the latter two probably (and the latter one definitely) shouldn't have rituals.

How about a book on Merchants... called the Merchant's Guide to Rokugan... what could possibly go wrong

1 hour ago, Bazakahuna said:

How about a book on Merchants... called the Merchant's Guide to Rokugan... what could possibly go wrong

Epic twist: actually about merchants

2 hours ago, Bazakahuna said:

How about a book on Merchants... called the Merchant's Guide to Rokugan... what could possibly go wrong

Nothing. Nothing wrong with that book. it's full of truth.

We’ve already got six types of techniques: Invocations, Kata, Kiho, Maho, Rituals and Shuji. However, when you start looking at how they’re distributed, it looks a lot like there’s very little variation.

Invocations: Shugenja only

Kiho: Monks only

Maho: Tsukai only

These means that all Bushi and Courtiers end up with Kata, Rituals and Shuji, making them less distinguishable than Shugenja and Monks. And what do you do with Shinobi and Artisans?

I suggest adopting 2 more Technique types: Ninjutsu (or some better word that I can’t find) and Aptitudes (again, find a better word if you can).

Then you can do things like this (assuming everyone gets Rituals):

• Bayushi Bushi: Katas, Shuji.
• Bayushi Courtier: Ninjutsu, Shuji.
• Shosuro Actor: Aptitudes, Ninjutsu.
• Shosuro Infiltrator: Katas, Ninjutsu.
• Soshi Shugenja: Invocations, Ninjutsu
• Yogo Shugenja: Invocations, Shuji
• Hiruma Bushi: Katas, Ninjutsu
• Kakita Artisan: Aptitudes, Shuji

I'm still catching up on reading things over. So 3 school techniques instead of 5. is there a trend on what was removed?

4 hours ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

I suggest adopting 2 more Technique types: Ninjutsu (or some better word that I can’t find) and Aptitudes (again, find a better word if you can).

Then you can do things like this (assuming everyone gets Rituals):

• Bayushi Bushi: Katas, Shuji.
• Bayushi Courtier: Ninjutsu, Shuji.
• Shosuro Actor: Aptitudes, Ninjutsu.
• Shosuro Infiltrator: Katas, Ninjutsu.
• Soshi Shugenja: Invocations, Ninjutsu
• Yogo Shugenja: Invocations, Shuji
• Hiruma Bushi: Katas, Ninjutsu
• Kakita Artisan: Aptitudes, Shuji

I like the concept of this, but what would Ninjutsu and Aptitudes do? All the other techniques are fairly clearly defined: Invocations are for calling the kami to help you, Kiho is drawing out your ki, Rituals are subtler ways to call the kami that take longer, Shuji are social techniques, and Kata are physical techniques, generally battle. Almost everything I can think of for Ninjutsu would fall under Kata easily, and the rest could go under Shuji. Aptitudes could be non-battle physical or non-social mental, but that has a lot of grey areas. The best I can come up with is a way to boost down time activities.

Well, for the Aptitudes, it is about the creation and/or awakening of remarkable items, like the unique weapons. I'd start by looking at the Kakita Artisan school, and then extend into things like the Shiba Illusionist and the Kaiu Engineer.

I kind of feel that there should be some sort of difference between the weapon techniques of Kata, and the various physical techniques of shinobi and scouts: body double, ninja teleporting, walking on water or through walls. Maybe it's pulling on your internal elements, maybe something else.

I have mixed feelings about shugenja having kata.

5 minutes ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

body double, ninja teleporting, walking on water or through walls.

Except if these effects are achieved trough illusions and smoke and mirrors, such mystical abilities would be the province of Kihos.

4th ed was suggesting allowing Shinobi a limited access to Kiho to portray mystical Ninjas, or have them take shugenja school ranks.

A player of mine in an "over the top" magical/mystic campaign was quite efficient as a Seal Ninja from the Yogo family

I'm not sure how I feel about the Kuni having Kata and Invocation and if they are losing out enough with lack of social.

They've definitely made the Shosuro Actors a 'skill' technique class rather than any mysticism which seems fairly consistent. 4E L5R as mentioned above did allow for the Kiho ninja options, but honestly the Ninja had to be rank 3+ to get any mileage out of that because they just used their school rank and 3 min was kinda the buy in floor.

They left themselves lots of room to make a Kata/Kiho ninja school down the road. Also, 'any' character can start with an Invocation/Kata/Kiho depending on the heritage table roll.

15 hours ago, Prost said:

I'm not sure how I feel about the Kuni having Kata and Invocation and if they are losing out enough with lack of social.

They've definitely made the Shosuro Actors a 'skill' technique class rather than any mysticism which seems fairly consistent. 4E L5R as mentioned above did allow for the Kiho ninja options, but honestly the Ninja had to be rank 3+ to get any mileage out of that because they just used their school rank and 3 min was kinda the buy in floor.

They left themselves lots of room to make a Kata/Kiho ninja school down the road. Also, 'any' character can start with an Invocation/Kata/Kiho depending on the heritage table roll.

One thing I might houserule is a little more choice in the heritage table. Not letting the player choose, but perhaps letting them role 2d10 and picking between them? I like randomness, but it feels a little too random for some reason.

15 minutes ago, Talandar said:

One thing I might houserule is a little more choice in the heritage table. Not letting the player choose, but perhaps letting them role 2d10 and picking between them? I like randomness, but it feels a little too random for some reason.

... that's the rule as it stands (well to determine the heritage, the rolls within the heritage are still only once).

15 hours ago, Prost said:

I'm not sure how I feel about the Kuni having Kata and Invocation and if they are losing out enough with lack of social.

Part of me wonders whether that's meant to be the Witchhunter rather than the vanilla Shugenja