Orientalist said:

What the *)($*&*(&%$^$*&*$#?! Shaaaaame! Shaaaaaame!

And shame on everyone else in the forum for not having shamed Orientalist yet ;') (And double shame for Dam).

Seriously, you need to start playing with the terror track, it's crucial for a number of the Ancient Ones, for closing stores, for forcing players to mind their vortexes, for incentivizing keeping the monsters under control (at least a little), for killing of random allies. Shaaaaaaaame!

:') And good luck when you use it next game.

2) A Mythos Card is drawn. A Gate open, as usual. I also draw one Monster. The Hound of Tindalos. I place the Hound on the Gate. Then I read the text on the Mythos card: "All Dark Young and Hounds of Tindalos are returned to the cup". Does that means I'll return Tindalos to the cup immediately? Without allowing it to take any action on the board?

4) Also, can a Hound of Tindalos attack two Investigators in the same turn? Even if the Investigators are quite at a distance one from another.

[The answers to these questions are semi-related, maybe, I feel like you're not grasping something about mythos cards. When playing a mythos card, first you open the gate and place monsters, then you move monsters, then the card text takes effect, so A) a Hound could move and then be returned to the cup, and B) movement is not "attacking." Monsters only attack during *investigators* movement phases when they're on the same spots and not evaded.]

6) What happens with the Monster placed on a Gate once an Investigator returns from an Other World? Let's say one of my investigators is returning back to Arkham from the Abyss. He has enough clue tokens to seal the gate. Does he have to fight the Monster which is on the Gate or can he try to close and seal the gate, ignoring the Monster on the gate? If he successfully close / seal the gate, what happens with the Monster? Is it returned back to the cup? This is how I've played so far.

[When an investigator exits an Other World, they have a turn of grace where they are not attacked by monsters but can choose to initiate combat during their movement phase, after the turn they exit the Other World, combat goes normally, i.e. they have no choice in the matter. The only monsters that are removed from the board when a gate is closed are monsters on the board and in the outskirts with the same symbol as the gate.]

7) When I go Insane, which are the items I have to discard? Do I also discard Allies, Blessings / Curse (that would be a good idea, to be able to discard a Curse if I go insane!) and Skills? Or only Spells, Common Items and Unique Items?

[Common, unique, and exhibit items. Spells, and the patrol wagon, and the revolver (they both count as items). I'm not sure if I'm missing something from Kingsport (it's possible). I'm pretty sure The White Ship isn't counted (like 80%, don't quote me on it though— and I'm not sure about The Great Seal). The general rule is if it's tradable and not money, it's an item.]

8) Is it possible to win the game by closing gates only? It seems pretty impossible for me. That's why I am always trying to seal the gates. I wonder if I am doing something wrong here.

[Yes. There are several ways of doing this. It wasn't *that* hard to pull off in the base game. It's not that hard to pull off if you have a very high number of investigators— and a little luck. It definitely helps to have a few locations sealed first— I wouldn't bother with low gate frequency locations though. More rarely you can win by closing gates just by getting lucky, it does sometimes happen. Also rarely seen, but not impossible to pull off, is victory by using Walking the Ley Lines. Generally I'd recommend going for victory by sealing, unless you have 6 or more investigators. If you have multiple boards, you're still probably better off just going for a sealing victory]

http://www.arkhamhorrorwiki.com/Walking_the_Ley_Lines

Terror track is mostly meaningless to me. Certain GOO (Hastur, Glaaki) or Heralds (KiY, Dagon) make me care about it a bit, if none of those are in, it can hit 10 for all I care, as long as I win. Sure, end score will be less (oh, noes ), but W is what I'm looking for. Since I only shop at Curiositie Shoppe, Terror 0-5 are all the same, 6 hurts the most, 7-10 again all the same. Losing Allies? Pfft, never buy them anyway. If one I would get from an encounter has left, at least you get the pity-prize.

Gentlemen,

Thank you all for putting up with me. The Gods would be pleased to hear.

Avi, it is obvious you care a lot about your Ancient Ones, but this:

"Movement is not "attacking." Monsters only attack during *investigators* movement phases when they're on the same spots and not evaded.

is simply nuts!!! Outrageous, on my word! Oh ****, what have I done?! My monsters attack immediately they are allowed to move, within the Mythos Phase not on Investigators movement phase. I am tormenting my brains here now: does it make any difference? Actually, I think Avi's version, which seems to be the official game's version, is kinda softer to the investigators than my shabby house rule. I think I will stick with it. The monsters move AND are allowed to attack investigators during the Mythos Phase, after you have drawn a Mythos card.

You know, after I just said that I don't care too much about the Terror Track, the next game I've played with a Terror Track. It makes all the difference, me thinks. I like using it now.

A question: is an Investigator allowed to fight two monsters during his movement phase? I was trying to move poor Patrice Hathaway from the Historical Society to St. Mary Hospital. On Uptown there were two Gugs. Patrice evaded the first but to continue her movement she had to evade/fight the second monster as well. So is she allowed to fight / evade two monsters in a row?

----

Later edit: Another thing I am doing it wrongly on purpose - there are no delays for the investigators in an Other World. In a solo game, this rule makes no sense to me. So, if an investigator is in the Abyss, he moves to the first part - have an Encounter - next round he moves to the second part - have the Second Encounter and then he can return immediately to Arkham.

Orientalist said:

She isn't allowed to fight/evade two (or more) monsters, she MUST deal (fight/evade) with any and all monsters in the space she wants to leave (or ends her movement in, even if she didn't move). If she fights any of the monsters, she will remain in that space, having to deal with any monsters next turn as well.

Orientalist said:

"Avi's version" ::laughter::

Hrm... I really don't think you should be tampering with basic game elements like phases and terror track until you've been playing the game quite a bit longer. For one thing, it makes playing with other players difficult, for another, it undermines game design. Seriously. If you're that eager to up the game difficulty, go to the fan creation section of the website and throw around some ideas ;') I guarantee you, someone will take you up on them and incorporate them, if you don't want to make something on your own. Terror Track is important, although you'll learn how to get it under control fairly quickly, so it won't be a *major* threat, just a peripheral annoyance and an extra timer (to me the worst part of the terror track is when it kills a really useful ally or closes the unique item shop).

Btw, how movement works makes a big difference. Although I'm not sure exactly how you're playing. I just know you're not playing correctly. I'm not sure if you're basically allowing investigators to kill two monsters a turn, errrr two monsters in different spaces, (a huge advantage since they can accumulate trophies nearly twice as fast and clear the town of monsters so the terror doesn't rise— regardless of what Dam says, "normal" people, normal in the context of this forum, terror is a bad thing since it cuts you off from useful weapons and allies, he just thinks it isn't because he only counts sealing victories as wins, which is a little absurd). It also sounds like you're allowing investigators to kill monsters that move onto them on *the monsters* turn. This frees up investigators to move without passing an evade check (which is usually failed) and is contrary to game design. Heh... Personal disclosure, I played a movement rule wrong for nearly two years (it also allowed me to attack in different spaces— I thought if you started movement with monsters on your spot, you could fight them and still move that turn— which is actually very similar to what you're doing, and I can say from experience, it makes the game easier, tsk tsk, you might as well use a herald).

Your question about Patrice makes me suspect that you're misunderstanding another aspect of movement (although it's possible that you just didn't express yourself exactly). When an investigator enters combat with a monster, they can't move any further, if they evade a monster, they can continue moving, whenever an investigator is in a space with monsters, it must fight or evade all monsters in its space (in other words, you can definitely fight and/or evade two monsters in a row, and you *must* and/or both, but to continue moving you must evade both).

Btw, why do you "loathe" madness and injury? I love them because they add much flavor to failed combat although I happen to believe they do make the game easier, since only four of them have really crippling penalties (unless accompanied with a herald that passes them around like poisoned candy). They're even better if you don't do early retirements ;') you've never really lived until you've had upwards of 7 madness/injuries on one investigators. Yeah, I did that once :') it was awesome.

The most horrific and mind shattering aspect of Arkham Horror is the rulebook. Do yourself a massive favor and head over the BGG and snap up a few turn reference sheets. There are plenty to choose from, some better than others. Even more useful, locate a flow chart and stick to it like scripture for the first few games. Your initial sessions will be slooooooow as you progress with your nose buried in the material, but it'll start to make sense. By your third or fourth game you likely won't need the references, maybe a few times per session to remind yourself of the odd rule. Attempting to decipher even a single turn of AH using the official rulebook requires Lore (-6) [8], exhaust and discard patience.

As for combat, it does seem a little confusing and unintuitive at first. You want to throw Investigators into combat each time they come in contact with a monster, especially in the Mythos phase when the monsters move and appear. However, once you get a feel for the turn sequence you'll begin to realize why it works the way it does. Combat only occurs during the Investigator movement phase UNLESS you draw a card that states otherwise (encounter or gate card w/ "a monster appears" or something similar). The only major exception: If you exit a gate during your movement into a location with a monster. Despite this occurring during movement, you do NOT have to fight that turn (but next turn, the monster(s) notice you and bang a gong it's on). Combat ends movement, which is why it occurs in that particular phase. If you move into an area with a monster OR begin your movement phase in an area with a monster, the Investigator is forced to fight or evade. If you fight, movement ends regardless of the outcome. If you evade, movement continues assuming you have movement left to spend. You can evade a dozen monsters in a row, if it pleases you. Fail one evade check and it's combat time (after you take full stamina dmg), ending movement.

This means that the monsters who move onto a player during Mythos aren't getting ripped off. They still get to attack, they just have to wait until the beginning of that particular Investigators movement phase. This is an important rule, a foundation of the game. To change it would fundamentally alter the way it plays

Another important aspect of movement to remember: If you collect a clue token, movement ends. You cannot bounce around between several locations and collect several clue tokens en route. As soon as you decide to collect a clue, movement ends.

Also, regarding being delayed in the Other World, this only occurs if a gate opens up on top of you in the Mythos or encounter phase (more often in Mythos, but sometimes the rare "gate and monster appear" card will suck you through). Note: If you get transported via a "gate and monster" card during the Arkham encounter phase, you will actually end up having THREE Other World encounter. Encounter phase >> gate appears! >> sucked through and delayed >> OW encounter phase, have an encounter (delayed does not cause you to miss this phase) >> Mythos. You'll then stand up from delay during next movement and eventually have a second encounter in the first space. Being delayed when a gate appears during the Mythos phase makes perfect sense, as you'd otherwise enjoy a free pass to the 2nd region of the OW during the next movement phase, avoiding the first OW encounter ... and I suppose they don't want you blowing through the OW too fast, entering a gate and moving to the 2nd space/encounter in the span of two short turns (in the case of a gate during the Arkham encounter phase). Regardless, once you understand the finer points of the overall turn sequence, it'll all make sense!

Whoops. I realize the second to last sentence in my final paragraph is a tad confusing. Because I'm stupid. You'd move through to the second space and have your second OW encounter in two turns under normal circumstances.

... come to think of it, why ARE you delayed when sucked through a gate during the Arkham encounter phase? You'd otherwise end up having two OW encounters as intended, why force the player to have a third and waste a turn? You enter gates during the encounter phase as a matter of course. In the Mythos phase, there's a good explanation for it in terms of game mechanics. In the Arkham encounter phase, it seems gratuitous. I can understand it from a thematic standpoint, "OMG a gate! Whoa! My hat!" *sucked through* *lands on head*, but otherwise ...?

"The only major exception: If you exit a gate during your movement into a location with a monster. Despite this occurring during movement, you do NOT have to fight that turn (but next turn, the monster(s) notice you and bang a gong it's on)."

[i just wanted to clarify that combat on the turn you emerge from the gate is optional (if you emerge during movement), it seemed a little obscure in context]

Deek said:

It's a penalty.

Avi_dreader said:

I realize that, but it seems like a pointless penalty. The delay in the Mythos phase makes sense but it doesn't appear serve a purpose for gates opened during the Arkham encounter phase, at least with regard to game mechanics.

Deek said:

Yeaaaaah, I get that too. Maybe they didn't want to make an exception rule. You're delayed when, except when. Bleh. Better to just have an occasional extra penalty. Maybe. Whatever. I'm happy with it :')

Ouch, Deek! First of all, much obliged for your messages. Secondly, well, I am not that newbie to Arkham Horror in order to go and fetch some flow charts. Actually, if I am to be honest, the flow charts I've studied only confused the things for me. The help I've received here on FFG was ten times better than any flow chart. I think I've played about 35 hours of Arkham Horror so far. Yes, I am doing some mistakes, or let's call them shabby house rules, but still, I am enjoying the game as it is. Even with the mistakes I am making, I don't feel the game being either easier or harder. The only mistakes I am doing are: 1) allowing monsters to move AND attack (if possible), while the Mythos Phase card and 2) having only two encounters in Other Worlds, instead of three. The whole delayed investigator thing is too much of a killjoy for me. If I was playing the game with four other real persons, then yes, maybe it makes sense, but for a solo game, nah, I don't see the reason for which my investigator should have three encounters in Other Worlds. Two are enough.

Also, maybe I'm missing something, most probably, but if an investigator returns from an Other World and on the Gate in Arkham there is a monster, why should he wait to deal with it next round? Why not deal with him immediately? Try to close / seal the gate then evade/fight the monster on the gate in the same turn.

A thing I was not aware of, Deek: combat ends movement. Hmm, thanks. But I guess that if I fight a monster and I kill him, I can then move forward, if I still have movement points.

Thanks to all and sorry for my language, English is not my first.

Orientalist said:

If you fight a monster, you will remain in that space until movement phase next turn (barring encounter or Mythos moving you).

"Once an investigator begins combat with a monster for
any reason, his movement is over. Regardless of whether
or not he wins the battle, the investigator loses the rest
of his movement points and must remain where he is." (p. 8)

Orientalist said:

Okay... You're having a number of issues here. I need to work on a cataloging paper (I've procrastinated enough today, and now I'm not going to get sleep) basically you need to read about phase order, carefully. The reason you might not want to kill a monster when coming out of a gate is Movement (when you fight monsters) comes before Arkham Encounters (when you seal gates). So if the monster kills you, you will lose your explored token and have wasted several turns in the other world. Sometimes it's unlikely or impossible that you'll beat the monster, and sometimes the risk just isn't worth it.

You can't move after fighting. Once you fight, you can't move farther that turn. Consider rereading the manual carefully.

Thank you Avi, your advices are priceless.

On a second note, I was just made aware of another mistake I have been doing.

The monsters in the Dunwich board does not count toward the Monster limit? Oh myyyyyyy....!!!!!!!

Orientalist said:

Right, Dunwich has its own control mechanism. When monsters enter the vortexes, they are removed and the terror level increases by 1 (and a DH token is added).

Orientalist said:

No worries! Just putting that out there. I know for me, personally, the flow charts and turn reference sheets helped to clarify the complex turn sequence. I wish I could link you to the reference I still use on occasion. It includes footnotes for almost every confusing situation that results from shoddy wording or conflicting interpretations. Excellent piece of work. Color coded for each expansion, too.

Orientalist said:

I think this reveals your true problem at the moment: you are trying to use expansions before you've actually learned the basic rules.

My advice is: play at least the first half a dozen games (counting from now that you're playing almost correct, forget all your previous games) with only the basic AH components. Put aside all the other extra stuff (I'd even say take out all the monsters that came with Dunwich) and learn how to understand and play the base game by the book.

Then, after a month or two, you may slowly start adding expansions / optional rules (like changing the amount of encounters you take in Other Worlds, etc).

-Villain

Thanks, Villain!!!

Hey,

I've been following this thread for a while because I think there is a lot of good information for players who start playing AH.
Almost all of my first questions and mistakes are being handled here, by lots of experienced players, so it should be a sticky thread

To Orientalist:

I'm glad you really like the game and I find it very brave to admid you have problems interpreting the rules. As a non native English speaker myself I had also a real struggle sometimes. But I have to agree with all the others who gave advice, to realy try to play the game as it is designed.

But this is an advice because your aditude is actually the best, as long you like the way you play, that's all that counts.

You have to understand that answering questions that interact with your prefered house rules, will be very difficult.
IMHO it's best to play (even solo) as true to the rules as possible, to really grasp all the tiny mechanics that the game are rich.

For others it's more comfortable to know you play everything by the rules when answering questions otherwise it's hard to know where the question is comming from?

Anyway, excellent thread and contributions from you all

Deek said:

Psst, Deek. Try not to think of it as your "first" Other World Encounter, and try to think of it as a "relocation encounter." Like the Library Encounter that sends you to the Dreamlands for one Encounter and return. The only difference is...you aren't getting a free ride back. (And you're leaving a Gate behind.) So that first OW Encounter isn't one of the "official" two Encounters you're required to have; it's kinda replacing the Arkham Encounter you were supposed to have when the Gate interrupted you. You do that first one, be delayed, and THEN have your "first of two" Encounter next turn.

jgt7771 said:

Noooo! I remain indignant!

I suppose that's one way to look at it, though.

I'll come to terms with it. Eventually.

Nephilim said:

::Sigh:: I *wish* that some of the forum participants had the abilities to make sticky threads.

Thank you for the kind words, Nephilim! It feels awesome to be an Arkham Horror newbie. I have more fun being a newbie to a game than a veteran. Difficult to explain.

Speaking of fun, here is another noob fun I had last night.

There were 4 open Gates on the boards.

Jim Culver, the Jazz man extraordinaire, jumped, on purpose, through one of the 4 Gates. Other World Encounter. Pass a Speed - 2 and return back to Arkham. So Jim returns to Arkham at the end of his first Other World Encounter. Since he had a lot of clue tokens, he is trying to seal the Gate. Gulp - he fails. So he remains on the Gate and he will try to seal it next turn.

Next - Mythos Card Phase.

Oh gosh, a monster surge. To keep things easier to explain, a monster appears on the Gate where Jim Culver is. What exactly happens now?

Jim will try to seal once again the Gate next round. He fails once again.

Will he now deal with the Monster on the Gate?

Or he must deal with the Monster before trying to seal the Gate once again?

When Jim returned in Arkham after his Other World Encounter, there were no Monster on the Gate. The Monster appeared because of a Mythos Card and its monster surge text.