Really both Strife and Outburst could do with better names, unfortunately they seem to be the closest thing.

Strife can also be exuberance, nerves, excitement, frustration, disappointment. It really is a measure of how composed your character is, how controlled and measured their approach, exactly as the threshold is named. There's really not a word in the English language to describe everything that the number is tracking.

Outbutburst has the same problem, it indicates the character has lost composure but tries to use a single word to do it. It probably is better than Strife in that regard since Outbursts can be "an Outburst of Joy." But it suffers from trying to describ a complex mechanic with a single word

13 minutes ago, Richardbuxton said:

Strife can also be exuberance, nerves, excitement, frustration, disappointment. It really is a measure of how composed your character is, how controlled and measured their approach, exactly as the threshold is named. There's really not a word in the English language to describe everything that the number is tracking.

How about the word Agitation ?

14 minutes ago, Drudenfusz said:

How about the word Agitation ?

Good, but it still feels negative, composure is a neutral term in that it refers to all kinds of emotions even if loosing composure is a bad thing.

If the system counted downward (for wounds and composure) then Composure would be the word. "You need to loose composure to get that success" makes a lot of sense.

I understand why they don't want to do that, the way it stands everything in the system counts upwards and thus makes sense. But for this instance I would propose a change.

3 minutes ago, Richardbuxton said:

Good, but it still feels negative, composure is a neutral term in that it refers to all kinds of emotions even if loosing composure is a bad thing.

If the system counted downward (for wounds and composure) then Composure would be the word. "You need to loose composure to get that success" makes a lot of sense.

I understand why they don't want to do that, the way it stands everything in the system counts upwards and thus makes sense. But for this instance I would propose a change.

I don't mind it that they did it that way. I think of it as a stress system which eventually geads to a breakdown. Sure, the outburst can be that the character starts laughing, but it is in essence an emotional outburst that has build up. And well, they use the word composure is the threshold to show when one loses the composure through being agitated enough. It is honestly exactly how I would do it (and actually do in the stress system for my own game I am working on, so maybe I am biased in that regard).

I should clarify... I love the mechanics, the choice a player is forced to make. My concern is with using 3 different terms to refer to the same part of the mechanics:

You gain Strife until you exceed your Composure and have an Outburst. (This sentence would be good to have in chapter 1 somewhere!)

I would prefer if the wording was:

You loose Composure, when you have no Composure you have an Outburst.

5 minutes ago, Richardbuxton said:

I should clarify... I love the mechanics, the choice a player is forced to make. My concern is with using 3 different terms to refer to the same part of the mechanics:

You gain Strife until you exceed your Composure and have an Outburst. (This sentence would be good to have in chapter 1 somewhere!)

I would prefer if the wording was:

You loose Composure, when you have no Composure you have an Outburst.

From a technical writting apporach I would say it is good that they did not decided to go with your suggestion, since that having the same word for the capacity and the units that get measured would be very bad and only creates econfusion. I mean, in your version they would have to add to all instances where one regains composure then to make clear that it only goes to the maximum of the charcater that was established at teh beginning, without having a separate name for it, and eveny time they would forget to make that clear one could assume that they can get beyond the starting value. It would be a design nightmare. I might not always be happy with how FFG approaches things, but I can say that I think they are very good at designing clear and concise rules.

5 minutes ago, Drudenfusz said:

From a technical writting apporach I would say it is good that they did not decided to go with your suggestion, since that having the same word for the capacity and the units that get measured would be very bad and only creates econfusion. I mean, in your version they would have to add to all instances where one regains composure then to make clear that it only goes to the maximum of the charcater that was established at teh beginning, without having a separate name for it, and eveny time they would forget to make that clear one could assume that they can get beyond the starting value. It would be a design nightmare. I might not always be happy with how FFG approaches things, but I can say that I think they are very good at designing clear and concise rules.

And I agree here with you. Their rules often require a lot of page flipping but it's uncommon to find a loophole. Perhaps making the clear statement early in the book would help. Like I said I think it's a great system, just its presentation needs improvement.

Just now, Richardbuxton said:

And I agree here with you. Their rules often require a lot of page flipping but it's uncommon to find a loophole. Perhaps making the clear statement early in the book would help. Like I said I think it's a great system, just its presentation needs improvement.

Yeah, there are a few things that I hope get better established in the final product, like the small reference to each character reducing their strife by the water ring at teh end of a scene, that should be directly in the rules about the ring as well as in the chapter that talks about scenes. Which reminds me, I have to open a few more threads in the proofreading section... but that is what a beta is for!

3 hours ago, Richardbuxton said:

Really both Strife and Outburst could do with better names, unfortunately they seem to be the closest thing.

Strife can also be exuberance, nerves, excitement, frustration, disappointment. It really is a measure of how composed your character is, how controlled and measured their approach, exactly as the threshold is named. There's really not a word in the English language to describe everything that the number is tracking.

Outbutburst has the same problem, it indicates the character has lost composure but tries to use a single word to do it. It probably is better than Strife in that regard since Outbursts can be "an Outburst of Joy." But it suffers from trying to describ a complex mechanic with a single word

You know what else could use a new word? Skulduggery. Every time I read this I don't think "low skills" or "dishonorable things," I think "pirates." Artifice would fit well, but it might not be as recognized... could just call it fraud.

1 hour ago, Drudenfusz said:

From a technical writting apporach I would say it is good that they did not decided to go with your suggestion, since that having the same word for the capacity and the units that get measured would be very bad and only creates econfusion. I mean, in your version they would have to add to all instances where one regains composure then to make clear that it only goes to the maximum of the charcater that was established at teh beginning, without having a separate name for it, and eveny time they would forget to make that clear one could assume that they can get beyond the starting value. It would be a design nightmare. I might not always be happy with how FFG approaches things, but I can say that I think they are very good at designing clear and concise rules.

Yes and no - I like the idea of changing it from Outburst to Losing Composure. I feel this feels much better when I explain to a player what it means. Same with Strife, I think calling it stress might be better. You get stressed, you lose your composure. These sound great. What they need to do is change the units from composure to something else like temperament or disposition.

One to add...

Outbursts have to be over the top : Your character is simply exhibiting a break in their standard samurai stoicism. Outbursts can be a simple betrayal of that stoicism, such as letting slip a smirk at a funeral that other characters (PCs and/or NPCs) notice. That would be a far more likely narrative explanation as well, compared to (for example) busting out into a full gut, fall on your bum, belly laugh in the middle of the funeral.

1 hour ago, shosuko said:

You know what else could use a new word? Skulduggery. Every time I read this I don't think "low skills" or "dishonorable things," I think "pirates." Artifice would fit well, but it might not be as recognized... could just call it fraud.

The word you are looking for is "subterfuge" .

By the way, I'm also thinking a lot about revamping the Strife/Compusure/Outburst system, and so far I have this:

• Strife is renamed to Tension. It is no longer internal stress but the situation getting... well... tense for internal and/or external reasons. The line is crossed, the bets are called, the air is starting to vibrate. Something is up and the character can either harness it or fold under it.
• Composure is replaced with Conviction. It is the character's ability to control Tension. It runs from 1 to 5, with 6+ being high-end (like with Rings and Skills), and it is derived from Honor somehow.
• If the amount of kept Tension results you keep is lower than your Conviction then you can exchange the results for something positive . Your character reigns on the situation, and either becomes awesome or his cool makes others fold. There is a table with effects themed after the five Rings and the four mystical aspects (Mushin, Zanshin, Shosin, Gaman), and six differently costed (1-5 and 1+) effect for each theme.
• If the amount of kept Tension results is equal to your Conviction the nothing happens. It is a pass, a moment of perplexion and idleness as your character gets his act together and figures out what the **** is happening.
• If the amount of kept Tension results is higher than your Conviction then you must exchange the results for something negative . Your character slips and/or folds, and either does something stupid or embarrasses himself. Effects are arranged similarly than for the positive ones, with themes running between the five Rings and the Three Sins (Desire, Fear, Regret), and having six cost bands (1-6).
• Unlike Strife, Tension never "stays" unless reserved and works more like a kind of swingy Opportunity rather than "mental wounds". Most characters will have Conviction 2, so a player can always have something positively interesting by keeping a Tension result and have his character engage in some minor awesomesauce. Tension can be also played around to make for more interesting situations (for example, the GM can handwave unconventional and/or extreme player actions by adding Tension to their checks).

That's pretty much my rough idea. We can have the cookie and eat it too.

On ‎07‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 6:51 PM, The Grand Falloon said:

This is a feature, not a flaw. If a die face had Strife and nothing else, it would always get dropped, there's no choice to make. Remember, you don't have to keep any dice. If your choice is to either fail or take Strife, that's when you have do decide which is more important.

Exactly so. A success every time you roll dice shouldn't be assumed, and "can I cope with the emotional strain" is part of the judgement you have to make. you always had the option to stay in control of yourself by not giving in to a wild angry swing (skirmish)/keeping your mouth shut (intrigue).

It's the same in a duel; both sides are continuously ratcheting the tension until one side 'snaps'. The snap need not be one side going raaargh! or spontaneously developing tourettes; all it takes is a little wobble in your guard and it's finishing-blow-bugger-where-did-my-arm-go time .

On 10/8/2017 at 3:36 PM, Richardbuxton said:

Good, but it still feels negative, composure is a neutral term in that it refers to all kinds of emotions even if loosing composure is a bad thing.

If the system counted downward (for wounds and composure) then Composure would be the word. "You need to loose composure to get that success" makes a lot of sense.

I understand why they don't want to do that, the way it stands everything in the system counts upwards and thus makes sense. But for this instance I would propose a change.

You know? This makes a lot more sense to me.

This is a great thread. I noticed on certain platforms that there is quite a bit of pushback against Strife and Outburst, but to me the concept just seemed superbly fitting for the samurai fantasy where things like composure and what happens when it breaks is one of the major themes of genre stories.

As I just downloaded the beta rules yesterday I have not yet fully absorbed them, but I'm glad to see that, apparently, this mechanic works the way I would have hoped it to, rather than what some detractors claim with varying degrees of noticeable hyperbole.

I hope to be able to use it as an RP tool kinda the other way round, particularly in non combat situations. It was always a toss up for me to know when it fit to have a in character outburst of anger/frustration/emotion from my ever so stoic samurai. I feel that, potentially, this gives me as a role player another tool to gauge my in character reactions to things. By choosing to take those extra bonuses in an argument, negotiation, etc. I have some mechanics to help my own decision making which /may/ be useful. I won't know unless I get a chance to play but from what I can theory craft at the moment I see strife and outburst as a tool and less of a mechanic at the moment.