Its the way its GOING to go. You don't get to keep the community and enthusiasm built up around a tradition by discarding the tradition.

Edit: I'm not even claiming they should have kept the banzaii chant, im saying that this other one is "new coke" and is going to be received like "new coke"

I'm just glad "USA! USA! USA!" Is not a chant cause I would be blogging up a storm (I'm sure somebody yelled that when the bombs drop at Hiroshima and Nagasaki)

The new chant feels like nerd trying to give himself a cool nickname, way cringier now I think.

Also, proper protest would be to present your wakizashi to your daimyo in silence. Which I would support and encourage players do.

1 minute ago, El_Ganso said:

I'm just glad "USA! USA! USA!" Is not a chance cause I would be blogging up a storm (I'm sure somebody yelled that when the bombs drop at Hiroshima and Nagasaki)

The new chant feels like nerd trying to give himself a cool nickname, way cringier now I think.

Also, proper protest would be to present your wakizashi to your daimyo in silence. Which I would support and encourage players do.

The reality is that protest in the games community eventually just turns into non-participation.

I hope they get rid of drug and beheading references next.
My country has been in a 10+ year war against drug cartels, with over a million human casualties, and I find their use in games really offensive.

That and get rid of the Kaiu Wall.

I mean, it's 2017 people, who needs walls?

lol

8 minutes ago, McDermott said:

The reality is that protest in the games community eventually just turns into non-participation.

That's good, I rather not actively encourage or participate in the current environment of the perpetually offended.

I mean, if 90 year old men can embrace themselves as brothers 70 years after they were literally trying to end each other's life, you would think 3 generations after WWII people would rather celebrate each other for their similarities instead of quarreling about what makes them unique.

Exposing yourself to things that may make you uncomfortable is at the heart of finding common ground. Demanding that everything should be sensitive to my needs goes contrary to finding common ground.

30 minutes ago, BD Flory said:

America isn't Japan, and neither is Rokugan.

The people for whom Banzai was uncomfortable or offensive are the people whose parents or grandparents suffered under Japanese occupation.

Evoking traumatic moments in history is not the greatest way to build a welcoming and inclusive community. I'm glad FFG is trying to be sensitive to the issue.

Caving to the raving of one anti-Japanese bigot is not being inclusive.

Breaking with community traditions so easily does not bode well for the future.

So, they're removing the Utz-Banzai chant because it has bad connotations for those who had family who fought against the Japanese in WW2...

... By replacing it with a chant that sounds like a white supremacist-chant, and which in German will sound like neo-Nazi rally? And it will be chanted in German, as the announcement says it will be "performed in the language of the hosting nation".

Yeah, that's not going to be super-cringy. At all. >_>

Umm, this probably isn’t as important as debating the dropping of the banzai chant, but does anybody know what a modified win is or can point me in the right direction to find out for myself?

This...in every way they'd be wise to just remove chanting entirely if they aren't going to keep the tradition.

12 minutes ago, dysartes said:

Caving to the raving of one anti-Japanese bigot is not being inclusive.

Breaking with community traditions so easily does not bode well for the future.

I'd like to add to this.

Being a Nerd from a young age, I know what bullying looks like.

Hey FFG, you deal with bullies by standing up to them, not by caving in.

As a Japanese descendant born in America. I am highly disappointed by this choice. This was a chance to spread the proper knowledge of my ancestor's history. I was excited to return to L5R and share my feelings of my heritage with new faces.

Yes, uninformed people may feel uncomfortable about something, until they are edjucated and learn the truth. Regardless feeling uncomfortable is a fact of life.

With this information I WILL not be buying L5R and will be boycotting all other FFG products including X-Wing and Legions. As much as it saddens me to not purchase or play those games I will not stand by a portion of my heritage getting swept under the rug, because it is misunderstood.

In closing to the Samurai of Rokugan.

UTZ!

I can't help but feel I read a different article. Where was there even a mention of that chant? Balls to that, I love the chant.

Anyway, super excited for all the gorgeous prizes that are gonna try and get flipped on Ebay for three figures. Fingers crossed that when I attend WarpCon I can get my grubby little mitts on a couple =]

I don't understand the feeling about banzai but I can accept that some people don't like it.

I'm sad to see it go since it's a part of my life for so long.

The new one isn't that great once you translate it in French (in my opinion) and, being Belgian, it's not very intuitive to decide how I should go in my events : using French even tho it's not the native language of some players (Belgium has 3 official langages).

I could use the English version but I'm not comfortable enough with the language to articulate well enough and shout at the same time. Plus not everyone here actually speaks English...

The cool part about the banzai chant was that everyone around the world used the same one. Now my chant will not be the same as the player 300 km away from me. :-/

I don't argue the change. It is what it is. But they should have considered more carefully how they wanted to replace it. :-/

3 minutes ago, Daigotsu Steve said:

I can't help but feel I read a different article. Where was there even a mention of that chant? Balls to that, I love the chant.

Anyway, super excited for all the gorgeous prizes that are gonna try and get flipped on Ebay for three figures. Fingers crossed that when I attend WarpCon I can get my grubby little mitts on a couple =]

Its in the sidebar man

Quote

How they think it will go

Rokugan Chant

Leaders: For Honor!
Competitors: Honor!
Leaders: For Glory!
Competitors: Glory!
Leaders: For Rokugan!
Competitors: Rokugan!

How it will actually go

Quote

Leaders: For Honor!

Competitors: BANZAII!!

Leaders: Thats a warning!

12 minutes ago, BittersweetCocoa said:

As a Japanese descendant born in America. I am highly disappointed by this choice. This was a chance to spread the proper knowledge of my ancestor's history. I was excited to return to L5R and share my feelings of my heritage with new faces.

Yes, uninformed people may feel uncomfortable about something, until they are edjucated and learn the truth. Regardless feeling uncomfortable is a fact of life.

With this information I WILL not be buying L5R and will be boycotting all other FFG products including X-Wing and Legions. As much as it saddens me to not purchase or play those games I will not stand by a portion of my heritage getting swept under the rug, because it is misunderstood.

In closing to the Samurai of Rokugan.

UTZ!

If you feel this way I strongly urge you to contact FFG with a well-worded statement of your concerns.

They do not read the forums but I feel that they should know that there are people that legitimately feel this way.

There is no "correct" choice but FFG should be forced to recognize the consequences of their decision, especially from someone such as yourself whose objection isn't just a knee-jerk tantrum.

Just keep using the old chant. We might even get a cool fiction about it.
We'll definitely be painted as the bad guys, but as you know "every great story needs a good villain"

9 minutes ago, BittersweetCocoa said:

As a Japanese descendant born in America. I am highly disappointed by this choice. This was a chance to spread the proper knowledge of my ancestor's history. I was excited to return to L5R and share my feelings of my heritage with new faces.

Yes, uninformed people may feel uncomfortable about something, until they are edjucated and learn the truth. Regardless feeling uncomfortable is a fact of life.

With this information I WILL not be buying L5R and will be boycotting all other FFG products including X-Wing and Legions. As much as it saddens me to not purchase or play those games I will not stand by a portion of my heritage getting swept under the rug, because it is misunderstood.

In closing to the Samurai of Rokugan.

UTZ!

I am seconding Doji Kuribe in the post above. Do contact FFG with a well-worded statement (I know others are planning to do so). Know that many agree with you.

BANZAI!

#Banzai4eva

1 hour ago, BD Flory said:

America isn't Japan, and neither is Rokugan.

The people for whom Banzai was uncomfortable or offensive are the people whose parents or grandparents suffered under Japanese occupation.

Evoking traumatic moments in history is not the greatest way to build a welcoming and inclusive community. I'm glad FFG is trying to be sensitive to the issue.

Sadly the people for whom the Banzai chant was uncomfortable, or offensive were people who didn't like shouting, and people who have no connection to Japanese atrocities but like to signal how woke they are in blog posts...

It isn't even a case of cultural appropriation. You might as well stop waving the US flag because N Korea is upset by it.

59 minutes ago, BittersweetCocoa said:

UTZ!

BANZAI!!

Getting rid of the chant is whatever, but I'm still scratching my head at the reasoning.

As was previously mentioned, "banzai" is still in use in Japan for a lot of things, most of which are rather mundane. For example, I've seen it used to try to pump people up at large company meetings (no, really) and the Hiroshima baseball team fans literally do three banzais every time their team scores a run. It is a purely American sensibility to associate it only with WWII. They say "the real world historical context" of the phrase in the article, but I feel like they are ignoring most of the real world historical context of the phrase. But, I suppose it is an American game by an American company, so American sensibilities prevailing is not unexpected.

4 minutes ago, Suzume Tomonori said:

Getting rid of the chant is whatever, but I'm still scratching my head at the reasoning.

As was previously mentioned, "banzai" is still in use in Japan for a lot of things, most of which are rather mundane. For example, I've seen it used to try to pump people up at large company meetings (no, really) and the Hiroshima baseball team fans literally do three banzais every time their team scores a run. It is a purely American sensibility to associate it only with WWII. They say "the real world historical context" of the phrase in the article, but I feel like they are ignoring most of the real world historical context of the phrase. But, I suppose it is an American game by an American company, so American sensibilities prevailing is not unexpected.

Its not even american sensibilities. Its a handful of loudmouths with blogs sensiblities.

I don't consider the people who are opposed to the chant to be petty, or that they are trying to spite others, or are just loud, or are just complaining, or a lot of the other negative things/names people are calling them. I believe the people who are opposed to it, and FFG when they chose to stop it, have their hearts in the right place. The reasoning just doesn't seem to me to consider the full context of the phrase.

Just now, Suzume Tomonori said:

I don't consider the people who are opposed to the chant to be petty, or that they are trying to spite others, or are just loud, or are just complaining, or a lot of the other negative things/names people are calling them. I believe the people who are opposed to it, and FFG when they chose to stop it, have their hearts in the right place. The reasoning just doesn't seem to me to consider the full context of the phrase.

I don't.

The louder someone (not actually of a directly oppressed group) is about an issue of justice for an oppressed group (they arent actually part of) the more convinced I am that they have a whole batallion of skeletons in their closet regarding the very issue they're "upset" about because when you're making your voice loudest, it becomes about you, not them. Vocally Intersectional feminist dude guilty of sexually harassing/assaulting women is the 2010's version of anti-gay republican looking for gay sex on the DL.

2 hours ago, BD Flory said:

If that's the way it goes, that'd be too bad.

"FFG: We want to try a version of this that's more inclusive, and sheds some negative associations! Here's a great way to express excitement for the game everyone can get behind!"

"Some Players: Sounds good! I'm enthusiastic for L5R! FFG chant!"

"Other Players: We prefer to be inconsiderate to the feelings of others! Utz! Banzai!"

Just to be clear, there are many countries in Europe where chanting "For Honour" and "For Glory" has plenty of negative associations. Ones much more dangerous (and increasingly influential) than Banzai is.

2 minutes ago, Evilgm said:

Just to be clear, there are many countries in Europe where chanting "For Honour" and "For Glory" has plenty of negative associations. Ones much more dangerous (and increasingly influential) than Banzai is.

This.

This is the kind of chant that will quickly sound like neo-nazism and white supremacy in many places in Europe (heck, even in the US I'd argue that it would feel that way too). It already seems creepily familiar to the SS motto.

If there ever was a clear example of cultural appropriation, this is it

Japanese Person: "Banzai is a joyful cheer in our country!"

White Person in Roseville, Minnesota: "Well, we decided it is not"

Japanese Person: "But it's part of our heritage!"

White Person in Roseville, Minnesota: "Not anymore"