Does Harvey Walters' ability apply to the cost of casting spells (does he reduce the casting cost by one, essentially casting spells with a cost of 1 or less for free)?

Thanks in advance for the help!

carolina_bryan said:

No. There's a rules distinction between costs and losses. Spells are a sanity cost, not a sanity loss.

Heh... I remember back when I used to think he could spellcast for free ;') I used to have much more respect for him then.

Of course, "they" then later decided that there should be an investigator that not only reads books saner than Harvey but can also cast 1 Sanity spells every turn for FREE !!!

(yes, my hate is strong)

Thanks for the replies guys.

If its not too much trouble, could you point me in the right direction of a rules cite? I was playing with a group last night, and Harvey casting spells for free "felt" overpowered. If we play again, I'd like to be able to point to a specific rule explaining why we were doing it wrong.

Thanks again!

FAQ (p. 4):

Investigator Abilities

Q: Does the Strong Mind ability (reduce all Sanity loss
by 1) of the professor, Harvey Walters, apply to the casting
of spells?

A: No. The professor’s ability works on losses, not costs.
The same distinction applies to the gangster, Michael
McGlen, and his ability to reduce Stamina losses.

(holy bleeping crap these forums HATE copy-paste)

First of all, I love Daisy, even though she's grotesquely overpowered ;'D Librarian power!

Second... Harvey is a disappointment if you think of him as a spellcaster— he's not. Not one bit. What he is, is a sanity tank. Crank his fight up to three, avoid direct combats (except when you're surprised), and just absorb the occasional sanity damage from random horror checks (if they come up). He's really like a character with 10 or 11 sanity, and considering that that's what you're most likely to lose in this game ::shrug:: Starting off with two unique items isn't bad either, (And lets not forget the two spells— which he probably should give to another ally rather than cast himself, his sanity is worth more than theirs). His lore luck stats are also very good. 3/4 Lore/Luck makes him very effective in most encounters. I really think the trick to playing him right is not using him for combat, but not fearing combat either. I haven't randomly drawn him for a long time though, so I haven't tested this theory yet :') Heh... Having Harvey even makes getting Duke a delight.

uh...Harvey is awesome with spells...you know cause 6 lore one of the highest in the game and 7 sanity to pay from!

MrsGamura said:

I didn't say he can't cast them, but if you read my post on him carefully, you'll realize why it's actually a waste of resources to use him as your spellcaster (unless it's absolutely necessary).

Every time you cast a spell with him, you're basically throwing away a sanity point... An extra one, I mean.

Avi_dreader said:

That's it, I'm doing a Doppleganger-check on Avi! No way the real Avi dissed anything in his precious KH expansion .

Dam said:

You fail your lore check. We eat you :')

Well, it depends on the spell, of course. Harvey's one of the best investigators for Storm of Spirits and if you really need a spell to be cast, he's the one to do it. I actually prefer him as a monster hunter if he's got a strong weapon, as he doesn't fear Sanity loss so much.

Avi_dreader said:

Last game I played, I had Harvey as one of the 4 investigators. By luck of the draw, we ended up with several Elder Crystals (I think that's the item - anyway - three of the things that allow you to put sanity tokens on them instead of costing sanity to cast spells.

Cthulu was the AO, which normally leads to a loss or at least an extremely close game. With Harvey running around with all the cool spells, a flame thrower and a sword of glory, rarely having to pay sanity for anything, and the rest of the investigators mopping up whatever he couldn't handle (bad luck left him with necrophilia because of an encounter early in the game), we actually got a seal vicotry with two or three spots left on the doom track.

Harvey has always been one of my favorite investigators, and with lucky draws like we had in the last game, he can be alocomotive.

Avi_dreader said:

Exactly the reason Walter's is good at casting spells because usually he will have the Sanity to pay for them due to his resistance to losing Sanity to random game events vs. Drake who usually will not be able to cast his spells due to lack of Sanity thanks to failed Horror Checks and random encounters.

MrsGamura said:

Erch. Again. No. If you spend Harvey's sanity, you're wasting a double resource for a single effect. Yeah. If you have to you have to, but if you can avoid it, avoid it.

I'm not saying that Harvey is *bad* at casting spells. I'm just saying you're better off casting spells with someone else— his sanity is worth more than theirs.

I get it Walter's Sanity is a valuable resource that should be saved because of his Strong Mind ability and this whole time I've been using him to cast spells with his lore of 6 and always having the Sanity to pay for that spell because of his Strong Mind protecting his Sanity from failed Horror checks and Arkham Encounters.

I'm going to use him only for moving around the board with 3 movements and evading all monster collecting clue tokens.

I get it every time you cast a spell for example Dread Curse sanity cost 2 is like a sanity cost of 4 on Walter’s so your overpaying by 2 and that’s stupid (sarcasm) but what good is all his sanity if your not going to use it (besides not going insane but that can be said for any investigator)?

MrsGamura said:

Good point he is good at using Tomes that do sanity damage but sadly he only has 3 movement to spend so he's not going far after reading that Tome.

Vs. Color maybe a little help from some clue tokens thanks to his 3 fight.

He's best played with the guy who comes with the motorcycle.

... You send him into other worlds with blue in them (more likely to inflict sanity damage), you take out a few two or three sanity inflicting monsters with him (particularly ones with difficult horror checks), and whatever you do, you don't cast Dread Curse of Azathoth, one of the worst spells in the game... I've cast it maybe twice, and only then in desperate emergencies... What a waste of sanity, AND it has a high failure rate, and you're better off just collecting two +4 weapons. Ugh. I hate that spell.

If you really think it's a good idea to be limping harvey around the board to cast spells with his three movement, go ahead, but I think the best use for him is gate sealing and the occasional horrifying monster take down (if they're in convenient range and are threatening to other investigators).

Avi_dreader said:

Crap, I don't want to agree with Avi, it feels all wrong and dirty (and not the good kind either ), but I tend to cringe whenever I draw Dread Curse. Maybe, if I had the Skill to reroll failed spell checks AND +1 Lore skill with a 5+ max Lore char, I might not totally hate it.

I tend to agree with jhaelen and Avi: Harvey is an excellent Tome reader, and with the proper equipment, a surprisingly efficient street sweeper. I would also agree that Harvey is an excellent Spellcaster, but I usually use him for BIG spells, like Greater Banishment and Arcane Insight; as Avi said, it's like Harvey has 10-11 Sanity, so the Sanity he saves from Horror Checks can be used sparingly on such spells. (There ARE better Investigators for the smaller daily-use spells.) Personal Fluff: Anyone can toss a low-rent Wither or wind themselves with a Find Gate, but it takes an experienced professor of the occult to pull off a Ritual.

But this got me thinking how many times an Investigator ends up playing against his "profession". The Professors in Lovecraft tend to be spellweavers, but Harvey can be played as brilliantly as Michael the Gangster as a Monster Slayer. (Age matters not.)

Mark the Soldier comes loaded for death with a flamethrower, but is painfully ineffective at actually getting to use it on the huge beasts that need such a weapon because he can't attempt the Horror Checks safely. However, Mark is an superb Explorer, able to bypass potentially game-killing stalls, especially in Kingsport and off-world, where delayed s fall like rain.

Dexter the Magician is a lousy spellcaster, not having as much Lore as you'd wish for Checks, or enough Sanity to spend for costs. But he is an excellent Spell GATHERER: combined with a true Caster like Carolyn or Daisy, he becomes the Supply Sergeant to make his teammate the powerhouse that Dam hates so much.

Anyone else?

jgt7771 said:

I don't think the ***** needs any help becoming a powerhouse, given the "choose any spell you want, any spell, pick a spell" starting item. Although I don't see how Dexter has not as much Lore as you'd wish when his max is 5, same as Carolyn or Daisy. On the sanity part I'm in agreement with. Also, poor Carolyn, unable to cast 2x Voice of Ra, 2x Alchemical Process and 2x Shrivelling in 1 turn for 0 sanity cost !!!

Dam said:

Awww, I think Dam is secretly jealous that he doesn't have access to the ***** goddess of the universe. He claims it's contempt, but it's really twue wuv!