On 29/09/2017 at 10:27 AM, Tabris2k said:

This reminded me of this old Penny Arcade strip (which is as valid now as it was then)

the assumption that then a new edition is out, people have to adapt or cling to their drowning way is stupid.

When 3rd Mutants & Masterminds edition was out, some people complained that their 2nd edition was perfect and they were going to still play with it and not buy the 3rd. I did not understand them at this era because what I read about 3rd edition pleased me a lot.

Now that I am on the other side, I don't like at all being considered an old moron who cling to the "old" edition L5R more than this thing with custom dices...and I realised, both sides are completely right : if you want to keep to your previous edition, that is fine, no one should be shamed because now there is a new thing and the old thing has become "obsolete" no one should be discriminated on his/her choice of game, I don't like custom dices ? That's my choice and it's valid, you like them, that's your choice and it's valid too.

I share the feeling. My first contact with the beta made me think: Wtf have they done to my L5R . But they did nothing to it, My L5R still lives within me .

Then I decided to try to open to the change. It's hard when you are the old Moron indeed . But from then I'm looking at 5e with open mind, trying to find what it is, not what it should have been for me.

live and let live... I'll give the new dice a try, and if I'm not convince, well no biggie and back to 4e. With maybe homebrewed elements from 5e.

the only point I'd stick on is that the app dice roller should have been a very basic free app for the beta, even with ads. If successful, then make a fancy paying one. And most of all don't charge 5 bucks for it. **** you see full games for less than three fiddy on app store. Dev costs of a dice roller ain't that high. That was a greedy move.

I like being open to change, keep moving forward. I like to try new systems.
It's not really simple, sometime you just say a new version of what you like/are used to, and discover you like more the older one. It's ok.

But i like the idea of going forward, to explore new things and try newer version of something i use(d)

I know people who are still playing ADnD 2nd edition. Yes. It is. I can't blame them: if they have fun, why they whould change?
But i hanged out with girls younger than this game. If i can, i always try newer versions, because the time are changing, and i'm changing with them; what was "omg really cool woot" when i was a teenager, maybe it's not really cool for me now, or maybe i got tired and i'm searching for something different.

That attitude made me trying SW EotE Beta, and i disliked the dice mechanics; i got my hand on a beta book from a friend after the beta period ended and we used standard dice and a comparison table to check the results. We all disliked it.
Than i got AoR Beginner game (and core rulebook too) as a birthday gift a couple years ago, and we gave it a second try. Using real dice worked and even if there is someone who after 2 years can't discern between advantage and success, everyone learned how to spent the them and create narrative. After a SW WEG campaign gone to a hiatus after almost 20 years of (not really) continuous playing, i really did'nt hope to be so happy with this new system (1)

Back in L5R: i was a long time player of 1ed. We played for a while and we stopped for no game reason.
One month ago a friend of mine asked me if i would know L5R and if could play an adventure, so we grabbed some 4th edition books and i started reading it. When i read about this beta i was excited and i subscribed it.
I whanna try it and even if something does'nt ring right in my ear, i would like to be proven wrong. Besides i'm very confident with custom dice who add different layers, and also think the roll&keep mechanics will let you overcome the fact you can end up with a lot of success when you need opportunity, and viceversa Also, the ring approaches looks very interesting and probably a good way to get the feeling of the 5 elements on the game

However i think i'll wait a bit more before testing it; at the moment the 4rth looks more complete and honestly the lack of a free app to test properly the custom dice mechanics (as i discussed here ) are a great Kaiu wall in front of the beta testing. I'd like to play an 5th edition beta just after the adventure at 4th edition, so we can thoroughly compare them.(2)

(1) i'm not really "omg that's the best system ever", there are something i don't like and something i think are done really bad, but in the end it is a good product and we all agree is way better than everything we could hope after first beta testing
(2) that's jut an hope... probably will be a miracle if we can manage to play just one of them but hey, what's wrong with dreaming?

2 hours ago, kelpie said:

However i think i'll wait a bit more before testing it; at the moment the 4rth looks more complete and honestly the lack of a free app to test properly the custom dice mechanics (as i discussed here ) are a great Kaiu wall in front of the beta testing. I'd like to play an 5th edition beta just after the adventure at 4th edition, so we can thoroughly compare them.(2)

I'm just curious, why do you feel you have to use the app to properly test the dice mechanics?

It would be very cool to hear a back to back comparison of 4th edition adventure to the new starter adventure. I hope you go a head and give that a shot. I'm sure a lot of folks would be interested in a live table top comparison instead of just rules to rules. Actually playing a game always changes things a bit. Some stuff works better, some worse, it is hard to gauge some times with just written rules to go by.

I have taken more time to read the beta because I did not want to pass for someone who judges hastily.. Still I have not completely read it and I have focused my reading on three axes : the background part, the mechanical part and the character creation part.

I found the background part nice and I have even learnt some things which were not on the previous edition like why Geishas are considered Hinin for instance.

About the mechanical part, like I said previously, I dislike custom dices RPG but I must admit that does not look as complicated as I thought initially. There is only 4 types of symboles and two types of dices and it seems manageable. I like the Strife Mechanic.

The school trees reminds me of the latests 40K games (Only War and DH2)

I still dislike custom dices but I may test the game IF I can convince my players (and that's not the easy part)

14 hours ago, Darksyde said:

I'm just curious, why do you feel you have to use the app to properly test the dice mechanics?

Because there is no dice yet

As i said before (but maybe in a different topic.. being a bit schizophrenic here with all those topics ) i tried Star Wars in Beta using adhesive etiquette on normal dice and it was plain awful; we all disliked the game. Then i bought the game and standard dice and we accostument to new dice mechanics and symbols very quickly, before the end of the first game session we already where spending advantage and calculating success...

The tool you use to play will influence your judgement, so with a dice roller app there will be no donwtime: you roll, it says exactly what's the result and no brain spent on understanding the mechanics and calculating strange symbols, and you can focus on mechanics
The setting is a rebrand of 1st edition (and that's the best part ) and feeling is the same old so i guess is not really an issue here

I talked with a mate and he too was very interested in play an adventure with 4th and one with 5th edition just to compare things. So in the end maybe we will do it. Probably not because there is not really time to do it, but we can still hope...

One of my friend and the one other L5R GM we have in our group has read himself the beta and here is his point of view :

Quote

I flew over the rules which are still very indigestible at one time. I checked also the dice application : it is the bare minimum (and does not justify its price in my opinion) and it will require practice to play dice quickly.

There is quite good ideas, but I feel that it could have been implemented much more simply. Some aspects (especially opportunities) will not please those who do not like to describe themselves the result of their actions.*

At the background level it is finally very light: we find the usual major clans (but not the Mantis which has become a minor clan). At the level of the families it resembles what one knew, for the schools the beta finally proposes only a little bit (there is not the bushi mirumoto for example!) But it is also not surprising .

At this first partial reading I did not find what made me like the 4th. I think we will have to wait for the definitive base book to get an idea.**

I do not know if the game really worth it at this step : the system ask for much time investment and we already have a lot of other things to do at this time.***

*two of my players don't like describing themselves the results of their actions, it's one of the reason we did not choose Prowlers & Paragons for an upcoming supehero campaign.

** he means that our group will probably wait the definitive core book when it will be out

*** : my D&D 5 campaign, his L5R 4th campaign, the second part of a one-shot of his own RPG we have to finish, my upcoming Durandal Super Hero campaign (with Mutants & Masterminds), yes that's a lot of work so learning the new L5R at this time seems to be preposterous.

I think my friend is right, our group has a lot to do and it's not the time for me or him to make a beta one-shot of the new L5R. Still, when the final game will be out and if I find it in France, I think I will have a look at it or maybe buy a PDF version if FFG made one and see, the final version may change my mind about FFG's L5R, who knows