well two bad for you, I am not rich and I cannot pay for everyone. One of my player does even have a smartphone.

The point is you seem to accuse me...and you seems to forget I am not the only one to not being fan of custom dices.

Well, you don't accept either the fact that I have twice asked you to not speak to me any more and you still do. Are you the kind of guy who harass women on the street when they say no...I wonder, well, there is only one way to shut you off. I will unfollow this thread and I won't be obliged to read your thrash anymore.

8 minutes ago, Athenor said:

I'd argue custom dice are simpler. 4 symbols vs. looking / adding up numbers. But that's just me.

They objectively aren't simpler. The symbols have no inherent meaning, while normal dice requires only basic addition. There is absolutely nothing simpler than basic addition, man. The symbols and what they mean and how can they be spent must all be learnt, while the numbers are an automatic process for any human being that learned how to read.

1 hour ago, malcolm_merlyn said:

R&K has worked for 4 edition, why change it ?

if it's not broken, don't fix it

Actually the d10 R&K system has had a large number of reoccurring flaws since 1e.

2 minutes ago, Mirumoto Saito said:

They objectively aren't simpler. The symbols have no inherent meaning, while normal dice requires only basic addition. There is absolutely nothing simpler than basic addition, man. The symbols and what they mean and how can they be spent must all be learnt, while the numbers are an automatic process for any human being that learned how to read.

Not to be pedantic, but there totally is something simpler than addition.

Coin flip for yes/no. 0 maths needed.

"mmh... this thread is full of anger and provocation. I feel at h ome !"

Fu Leng.

1 hour ago, VaeVictis said:

Yeah, not making the app a trial seems foolish. Either that, or they don't actually care if anyone tests it

I don't think they need the app tested. it's just a reskin of their Star Wars app, isn't it? no major coding changed.

12 minutes ago, RandomJC said:

I don't think they need the app tested. it's just a reskin of their Star Wars app, isn't it? no major coding changed.

Frankly, if it weren't for Star Wars licensing/skins, I would expect them to come out with a generic roller system. In fact, I suspect this is the direction they are going to go.

One app for rolling Runewars Minis, Genesys (reskinned star wars), L5R, and generic dice like the SW dice app has. Throw in support for fudge dice and a "generic" version of some of their older systems, and you'd have a ton of bang for your buck out of $5.

1 hour ago, Jennkryst said:

Not to be pedantic, but there totally is something simpler than addition.

Coin flip for yes/no. 0 maths needed.

Well, you had me there, sir.

I'm never sure about these arguments. I mean.. you had to buy special dice to play dnd (who really had a d20 dice set lying around otherwise), you have to buy a special dice set to play old l5r ( I don't know anyone who had a fist full of d10s hanging around for no reason) this is just a new system that requires a different investment. Just like when you started gaming or tried new game systems before.

49 minutes ago, mortthepirate said:

I'm never sure about these arguments. I mean.. you had to buy special dice to play dnd (who really had a d20 dice set lying around otherwise), you have to buy a special dice set to play old l5r ( I don't know anyone who had a fist full of d10s hanging around for no reason) this is just a new system that requires a different investment. Just like when you started gaming or tried new game systems before.

I agree but unlike the custom dice for FFG's L5R, you can use those other dice with other systems with out trouble.

For exmple

World of Darkness: d10s

Legend of the Five Rings R&K: d10s

Shadowrun 5th Edition: d6s

Game of Thrones: d6s

D&D 5th Edition: d20 set

Pathfinder: d20 set

SW Sega Edition: d20 set

etc, etc, etc.

I feel that's the main issue here as far as custom dice for L5R are concern, that it can only be use for one game... L5R.

I particularly don't like how they are forcing it on us. Oh you want to play you need to buy these dice that only we make. I particularly don't like how for a free beta they are making us pay them in order to play it properly. Yeah we sure we can print the icons and plaster them on our current dice, but one that makes me ruin a good set of d12's and d6's that I will then need to replace, also known as buy new ones. Also some of us are on an extreme budget, we don't have the extra money to throw at a $5 app (which is a ridiculous price for what it does), or even to print this crap out onto paper (ink and paper aint free, and the sticker paper is expensive). They could have done the same thing with normal dice which would have allowed more of us to jump in as we have already purchased said dice over the years (plus some of us really really like our clan dice).

Are we ignoring the handy conversion chart that makes buying the dice unnecessary or do we not know about it? Cuz you don't have to pay or do arts and crafts, you can simply roll and consult a chart, though I'd recommend like poker chips so you can keep track of which symbols you rolled. That's what my group did when we first tried edge of the Empire. A little slow until someone commits the chart to memory.

You seriously do not have to pay any money for the beta. It just speeds things up if you do.

But .. how forced is it when you can just make them your self for free? *shrugs* just seems like for all the reasons there are to be disappointed in an rpg system the type of dice used rates extremely low on the list.

15 minutes ago, llamaman88 said:

Are we ignoring the handy conversion chart that makes buying the dice unnecessary or do we not know about it? Cuz you don't have to pay or do arts and crafts, you can simply roll and consult a chart, though I'd recommend like poker chips so you can keep track of which symbols you rolled. That's what my group did when we first tried edge of the Empire. A little slow until someone commits the chart to memory.

You seriously do not have to pay any money for the beta. It just speeds things up if you do.

Constantly consulting a chart every time I do something is the reason why I stopped playing Rifts.

13 minutes ago, Darksyde said:

But .. how forced is it when you can just make them your self for free? *shrugs* just seems like for all the reasons there are to be disappointed in an rpg system the type of dice used rates extremely low on the list.

And it's not free. You still need to buy the ink and the paper. Some people have extremely tight budgets that do not allow for such things

So wait for the free unofficial dice apps to start showing up. Tons of new rules to read anyways.

I have literally no income right now and still fail to see how this custom dice and $5 app thing stops the beta from being free and accessible.

I mean no disrespect, but to be blunt... if you're unwilling to learn or refer to a simple conversion chart to use regular dice (because apparently you won't need to refer to anything else for how this brand new system works), and your budget is so tight that you can't set aside a bit of money to pick up the custom dice or the app, or print off the labels to put on some cheap dice you bought (or can buy) in bulk on the cheap, how were you planning to play at release? Even without a custom dice system, you'd still need the rulebook, that costs money too unless you're bumming off someone else. And if that's the case, there's nothing stopping you from doing the same now, not like you're playing this solo, right? And if no one in your game group is able to do any of the above, well... stick to your current games, then. No shame in that, not every game is the right fit for every person.

I quite like the custom dice, in Star Wars the dice can determine success or failure, the degree of success or failure and provide little narrative hooks. Further, they give a framework for the players to build their own narrative from the results. This makes a game feel more like a team effort than a normal adversarial RPG where the GM puts danger in front of the players, the players can if you think about it put the danger in front of themselves. So they can make the danger, risks and reward far more personal. From what I have read of L5R-RPG they seem to be trying for a similar end result but with a slightly different mechanic to get there, perhaps improving on the Star Wars RPG System.

In general the games I have played with special dice run smoother for the dice as the remove the look up tables for the most part at the expense of a small learning curve to figure out what all the symbols and such do.

So, I think just for the sake of the dice you may be choosing not to play a very good game in a setting you seem to love.

Though I understand that there is a degree of personal preference here if you and your players don't like "strange dice" then this game will not work for you.

I do want to ask a question though, cost aside, what is it mechanically that you don't like about the dice system?

58 minutes ago, Zesu Shadaban said:

I mean no disrespect, but to be blunt... if you're unwilling to learn or refer to a simple conversion chart to use regular dice (because apparently you won't need to refer to anything else for how this brand new system works), and your budget is so tight that you can't set aside a bit of money to pick up the custom dice or the app, or print off the labels to put on some cheap dice you bought (or can buy) in bulk on the cheap, how were you planning to play at release? Even without a custom dice system, you'd still need the rulebook, that costs money too unless you're bumming off someone else. And if that's the case, there's nothing stopping you from doing the same now, not like you're playing this solo, right? And if no one in your game group is able to do any of the above, well... stick to your current games, then. No shame in that, not every game is the right fit for every person.

Never said was going to be able to pick it up at release, was going to use the beta as a measuring stick to see if it was worth saving up for,.

6 hours ago, malcolm_merlyn said:

R&K has worked for 4 edition, why change it ?

Because they may not have the rights to the old R&K system. Even John Wick (who pretty much came up with it) had to use an alternative method for 7th Sea's 2nd edition.

Plus, as cynical as it may seem, custom dice is an opportunity for FFG to make money, which they're going to want to do as they are a for-profit company.

I'm not thrilled with the "yet more custom dice" aspect of this new version, but I don't totally begrudge FFG for wanting to make money and so stay in business.

Granted, I'm really not that impressed with the system thus far myself, and more likely than not will be sticking with either 4e, 7th Sea: Khitai, or Tianxia FATE for my eastern RPG playing needs.

5 hours ago, Ultimatecalibur said:

Actually the d10 R&K system has had a large number of reoccurring flaws since 1e.

That can be said for all dice rolling systems. None of them are perfect, and they've all got flaws.

For instance, d20 (especially the 3.X iteration) can have characters built in such a way that it's virtually impossible to fail certain skill checks unless the DCs are astronomically high, which can make it impossible for less specialized PCs to succeed at such tasks.

FFG's Star Wars (and by extension Genesys) have dice that are very swingy in their results, making it possible that a PC should fail checks they on paper should ace without a sweat, or succeed on checks they've got no business passing.

White Wolf's Storyteller system had the interesting quirk that the more d10's you rolled on a test, the more likely you were to botch rather than just simply fail.

I will also go out on a limb here (and in the other thread) and mention that if you are playing online, be it MUSH, chat-game, or PBP, you are dice-free! FREEEE!

11 hours ago, Mirumoto Saito said:

They objectively aren't simpler. The symbols have no inherent meaning, while normal dice requires only basic addition. There is absolutely nothing simpler than basic addition, man. The symbols and what they mean and how can they be spent must all be learnt, while the numbers are an automatic process for any human being that learned how to read.

9 hours ago, BlindSamurai13 said:

I agree but unlike the custom dice for FFG's L5R, you can use those other dice with other systems with out trouble.

For exmple

World of Darkness: d10s

Legend of the Five Rings R&K: d10s

Shadowrun 5th Edition: d6s

Game of Thrones: d6s

D&D 5th Edition: d20 set

Pathfinder: d20 set

SW Sega Edition: d20 set

etc, etc, etc.

I feel that's the main issue here as far as custom dice for L5R are concern, that it can only be use for one game... L5R.

8 hours ago, Mirumoto Seiichiro said:

I particularly don't like how they are forcing it on us. Oh you want to play you need to buy these dice that only we make. I particularly don't like how for a free beta they are making us pay them in order to play it properly. Yeah we sure we can print the icons and plaster them on our current dice, but one that makes me ruin a good set of d12's and d6's that I will then need to replace, also known as buy new ones. Also some of us are on an extreme budget, we don't have the extra money to throw at a $5 app (which is a ridiculous price for what it does), or even to print this crap out onto paper (ink and paper aint free, and the sticker paper is expensive). They could have done the same thing with normal dice which would have allowed more of us to jump in as we have already purchased said dice over the years (plus some of us really really like our clan dice).

8 hours ago, Mirumoto Seiichiro said:

Constantly consulting a chart every time I do something is the reason why I stopped playing Rifts.

And it's not free. You still need to buy the ink and the paper. Some people have extremely tight budgets that do not allow for such things

These posters have perfectly summed up my arguments.

6 hours ago, Mirumoto Seiichiro said:

Never said was going to be able to pick it up at release, was going to use the beta as a measuring stick to see if it was worth saving up for,.

exactly.

6 hours ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

Because they may not have the rights to the old R&K system. Even John Wick (who pretty much came up with it) had to use an alternative method for 7th Sea's 2nd edition.

Yes, I do have this game. It uses regular d10 dices and the mechanic is simple.

I am naturally adverse to custom dice and was approaching this game with false optimism as in my heart I expected to hate the dice mechanic... however I believe they have got it right to the point that this could be their best iteration of it.

By fusing their dice with the roll/keep mechanic they have definitely improved on their old custom dice mechanics. In the past their custom dice have resulted in scenes becoming a confusion of random events that makes combat more like a Benny Hill sketch. By rolling and keeping you can filter out dice to tailor your results better, even resulting in tactical considerations like having to deliberately fail to avoid Strife.

I'm not conceptually adverse to custom dice, simply because I realise that all a normal die is, is a polygon with some symbols on it (these symbols happen to correspond with numbers). Once you get over that mental hurdle and realise that all your life you've gamed with a polygon with a shape on it that means something, you'll realise that disliking them on principle is pretty superficial.