My local meta has a lot of swarminess right now, with Hammerheads and CR90s. I'd like to try out an Ackbar list, just for nostalgia, but I haven't run him in a long time, so I'm not up to date on what tools he has for dealing with mass enemy ships, and I am reliving old nightmares of big ships going down in flames to swarms. So far, I'm thinking of the following...

Man, I was just talking on the front page about how much I love 80/30/30, and here you are making me want to play it again.

I'd swap gunnery team to OE and drop to Torpedo shrimp on both, then aim to split the uprights with them and one-shot two small ships a turn with those sweet sweet Home One accuracies to back up your APTs. Even if you don't get to do it every game, just the threat of it is enough to substantially impact your opponent's play. I'd also suggest moving Lando to Home One, dropping Walex, and using the points saved from him and the MC30s to get Engine Techs+Leading Shots on Home One and probably Skilled First Officer on both shrimp (I haven't done the math on the points swap, but just "down"grading the MC30's is the huge savings so should be good).

I'm loving QBT on the MC80. Engine Techs do make it so much better , though. I've done it once with and ET MC80 and once with an ET Liberty: the engine techs make it that much easier to get where you want to be while keeping the speed on your dial down low enough to threaten QBT shots.

Your Jan ball is a pretty solid squadron wall, and it'll definitely serve you well in that role, but consider A-wings instead. 6 vanilla A-wings can really do a lot to support this fleet, giving you great threatening range both for pinning squadrons and for fire support for the MC30s. They also bump you up to 6 deployments which, while still not great, is much better than 5.

Finally, your objectives. Advanced Gunnery is a great choice. Fleet Ambush is always terrible in every fleet all the time*, switch it to Hyperspace Assault and lap up your opponent's tears as you set up the dreaded Ackbar MC30 double-side arc into the front of his ISD or the side of his Assault Frigate. Alternatively, you could take Contested Outpost and come-at-me-bro it up, but that hurts the shrimps' mobility a bit, which is their greatest strength. Dangerous Territory isn't ideal, but there's little that is-- Solar Corona is where I'd settle for this just to mitigate your rough deployment curve. I used to run Intel Sweep with my own 80-30-30, but that was before the dark times... before Strategic.

*not always , every, or all, but close enough

Yeah, not too much of a coincidence, I was definitely thinking about the MC30 thread when I was writing this.

• I'm intrigued by your Torpedo Frigate idea, and I read about it in the MC30 thread. While 12 points is a nice savings, and the look on an opponent's face to see TRCs on blue/black dice chuckers like you mentioned there would be great, I do also like the options that I get from having a huge threat area with red dice. I guess I've never considered the exact order of operations. Since Ackbar occurs "before a friendly ship's Attack Step," can I declare a long range attack with Torpedo Frigates? Because that would certainly change things.
• Engine Techs makes sense, and at one point I had it. I'll put it back.
• I guess I'm relieved that you didn't question the low activation count more, but it's still a concern. Maybe we're both wrong and 3 is going to hurt.
• I think I've just been luckier than most with my Fleet Ambush experience, because I haven't learned to be scared of it. I was reluctant to ruin my deployment even worse with HA, which was my second choice. But most likely, opponents will turn away from AG and HA, and whatever my blue objective is will be every game. For sheer no-downside potential, I'm leaning toward Dangerous Territory, but for yellow I'm moving back toward Hyperspace Assault.
• Wouldn't six A-Wings be too much to effectively control, short of dialing in a squadron command on every ship? I thought about other squadron configurations, and settled on a classic set of four hardy squadrons so that H1 could run them all.
• I think you're more confident than I am about the ability to line up perfect unicorn shots with both side arcs on the same target. It's a really hard call on Gunnery Teams versus OE. I know OE are standard issue on 30s, but my usual Imperial shenanigans have me obsessed with GT, and I'm tempted to keep them in order to deal with MSU and to multiple the Ackbar bonus. However, there's obvious a reason that people run OE, and it's because you can't trust your dice to win for you.

18 minutes ago, Nostromoid said:

Yeah, not too much of a coincidence, I was definitely thinking about the MC30 thread when I was writing this.

• I'm intrigued by your Torpedo Frigate idea, and I read about it in the MC30 thread. While 12 points is a nice savings, and the look on an opponent's face to see TRCs on blue/black dice chuckers like you mentioned there would be great, I do also like the options that I get from having a huge threat area with red dice. I guess I've never considered the exact order of operations. Since Ackbar occurs "before a friendly ship's Attack Step," can I declare a long range attack with Torpedo Frigates? Because that would certainly change things.

Ackbar is an "add" effect, so you must have some red dice in the pool to being with to attack at long range. With a with the torp you would need Enhanced Armaments.

19 minutes ago, Nostromoid said:

• I think I've just been luckier than most with my Fleet Ambush experience, because I haven't learned to be scared of it. I was reluctant to ruin my deployment even worse with HA, which was my second choice. But most likely, opponents will turn away from AG and HA, and whatever my blue objective is will be every game. For sheer no-downside potential, I'm leaning toward Dangerous Territory, but for yellow I'm moving back toward Hyperspace Assault.

If I'm 1st player and see Fleet Ambush I will always pick it. And it's guaranteed to end badly for the 2nd player. NEVER EVER take this objective (unless you've a very special fleet).

3 hours ago, Green Knight said:

If I'm 1st player and see Fleet Ambush I will always pick it. And it's guaranteed to end badly for the 2nd player. NEVER EVER take this objective (unless you've a very special fleet).

I've had luck with it and Leia, but Fleet Ambush is a very big build around and a very big "you know how to Armada" because there will come a game where someone has 4 Raiders and Demolisher and forces you to move into the kill box and you end up being very very sad.

This is what I dreamed up yesterday. It has a different twist than what you were doing, but seemed appropriate to the conversation. you can blame @Truthiness for the rambo combo in it though. TOTALLY his fault....

ackbar mc80 list
Author: moodswing5537

Faction: Rebel Alliance
Points: 397/400

Commander: Admiral Ackbar

Assault Objective: Advanced Gunnery
Defense Objective: Fire Lanes
Navigation Objective: Solar Corona

[ flagship ] MC80 Command Cruiser (106 points)
- Admiral Ackbar ( 38 points)
- Defiance ( 5 points)
- Damage Control Officer ( 5 points)
- Engine Techs ( 8 points)
- Disposable Capacitors ( 3 points)
- Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points)
- X17 Turbolasers ( 6 points)
- Leading Shots ( 4 points)
= 182 total ship cost

CR90 Corvette A (44 points)
- Jainas Light ( 2 points)
- Leia Organa ( 3 points)
- Turbolaser Reroute Circuits ( 7 points)
= 56 total ship cost

CR90 Corvette B (39 points)
- Engine Techs ( 8 points)
- Reinforced Blast Doors ( 5 points)
= 52 total ship cost

CR90 Corvette B (39 points)
- Engine Techs ( 8 points)
- Reinforced Blast Doors ( 5 points)
= 52 total ship cost

2 A-Wing Squadrons ( 22 points)
1 Tycho Celchu ( 16 points)
1 Shara Bey ( 17 points)

I just like the idea of the CR90 B's getting within blue range, chunking 2 blue and 2 red, then ET ramming something to death. The MSU ships wouldn't survive that....

Plus, the Ackbar 80/90/90 build did pretty well in Marietta regionals last year. 90a's look like AF2's out the side when they ackbar....

5 hours ago, Green Knight said:

Ackbar is an "add" effect, so you must have some red dice in the pool to being with to attack at long range. With a with the torp you would need Enhanced Armaments.

Okay, so my historical understanding of Ackbar's effect was right. You choose to do only left/right attacks before the attack starts (and therefore must have dice in your pool to continue), but you add like normal in the modify step.

8 hours ago, Nostromoid said:

My local meta has a lot of swarminess right now, with Hammerheads and CR90s. I'd like to try out an Ackbar list, just for nostalgia, but I haven't run him in a long time, so I'm not up to date on what tools he has for dealing with mass enemy ships, and I am reliving old nightmares of big ships going down in flames to swarms. So far, I'm thinking of the following...

SHIP: MC80 Command Cruiser 106

Admiral Ackbar 38

Walex Blissex 5

Reinforced Blast Doors 5

Quad Battery Turrets 5

Home One 7

TOTAL POINTS: 166

SHIP: MC30c Scout Frigate 69

Lando Carissian 4

Gunnery Team 7

Assault Proton Torpedoes 5

TOTAL POINTS: 85

SHIP: MC30c Scout Frigate 69

Gunnery Team 7

Assault Proton Torpedoes 5

Admonition 8

TOTAL POINTS: 89

Jan Ors 19

X-wing Squadron × 3 39

TOTAL POINTS: 58

Total Points: 398

Objectives: Advanced Gunnery, Fleet Ambush, Dangerous Territory

With Ackbar and Home One, I'd concentrate more on modifying the Red dice than the blacks. APTs are of very limited use when you're out activated. You're much better off with TRCs. I'm also not really sold on the Gunnery Teams, but that could come down to preference. Personally I would go for TRCs, Ordnance Experts, and External Racks. At a minimum, though, TRCs should be the priority on the MC30s

If you're experiencing a lot of swarms, you can probably go lighter on squadrons as well. Tycho, Shara, and a GR-75 (for commands an activation pad) serve me just fine. They'll almost certain to stick around longer than those X-Wings.

Engine techs on the MC80 would make it much more maneuverable and fast, and with engine techs, it will go places people never even thought of.

TRCs and APT/ER on the 30s' would be great, drop GT and turn it into OE, though keep them as scout frigates.

Derlin/Raymus are GREAT on MC80s. Derlin and Raumus make them that much more tanky, and Raymus makes it more flexible in commands. He is basically a mini Leia Organa.(commander) Walex isn't exactly necessary for the MC80.

A-wings would be better off than x-wings in my opinion. Shara, Tycho, and two generics are 55 pts. Their counter fire can easily repel those TIE and Z95 swarms, with their 3 hull and all. Basically, any TIE or Z95 that shoots Shara is considered Ded. D-E-D. DED. A flotilla would be nice too with that flak, especially against swarms.

Leading shots on the MC80 is vital, because with red dice, you never know.

Close-range intel scan objective could fit this fleet, with two ships having Home One. boosts. Any time you don't need the Home One accuracy, just turn it into free points.

Thous shalt never take MC80H1 wo Engine Tech!

(unless you're doing FCT - or some weird Projection ****)

Just now, Green Knight said:

Thous shalt never take MC80H1 wo Engine Tech!

(unless you're doing FCT - or some weird Projection ****)

WHy?

Bc wo Engine Techs the MC80 is like a big, fat VSD, waiting to be blown apart.

WITH ET you suddenly have a very agile and somewhat unpredictable battleship.

TRC on a medium-range ship... only applicable out the sides bc you need Ackbar to get red dice. And gunnery teams... also (more or less) only applicable out the sides, ie medium-close range. And TRCs being exhaust now.

It will not work.

On ‎10‎/‎6‎/‎2017 at 1:54 AM, Green Knight said:

TRC on a medium-range ship... only applicable out the sides bc you need Ackbar to get red dice. And gunnery teams... also (more or less) only applicable out the sides, ie medium-close range. And TRCs being exhaust now.

It will not work.

Why would TRCs not work? These ships aren't even trying to stay at long range - you get into close/medium like you want to anyway and those TRCs are guaranteed damage increases.

1 minute ago, JauntyChapeau said:

Why would TRCs not work? These ships aren't even trying to stay at long range - you get into close/medium like you want to anyway and those TRCs are guaranteed damage increases.

Does a torpedo frigate have any red dice?

31 minutes ago, Green Knight said:

Does a torpedo frigate have any red dice?

With Ackbar. Yes.

Now the following is compulsary reading.

https://archiveofossus.wordpress.com/2017/04/22/ackbar-mc30-star-destroyers/

I wonder if DTT would be a good fit for Ackbar MC30's now.
Probablynnot, right...?

7 hours ago, Ardaedhel said:

I wonder if DTT would be a good fit for Ackbar MC30's now.
Probablynnot, right...?

With or without OE?

16 hours ago, Green Knight said:

Does a torpedo frigate have any red dice?

You don't need red dice in your ship card battery to gain dice from Ackbar's effect, you just need to be in range to create an attack pool.

5 minutes ago, JauntyChapeau said:

You don't need red dice in your ship card battery to gain dice from Ackbar's effect, you just need to be in range to create an attack pool.

Yes...so you've limited your trc to medium range, same with gunnery teams.

Efficient?

10 minutes ago, Green Knight said:

Yes...so you've limited your trc to medium range, same with gunnery teams.

Efficient?

The counterpoint to that being, "If your primary damage armament is black dice, why are you paying the extra points to upgrade to red dice in the first place, when blue dice are better ACC generators for your black damage?"

The counterpoint to which is: if black is your thing, why no oe and ordnance?

Just now, Green Knight said:

The counterpoint to which is: if black is your thing, why no oe and ordnance?

Yep. Which is why it is a discussion , rather than a no-brainer.

If absolute black is your thing, then Torpedo, OE and Ordnance. Ackbar and TRC will pour that on, too.
If absolute range is your thing, Scout and TRC. Ackbar is a no-brainer add there.

If you want a mid-range compromise........ Torpedo is it... Ackbar and TRC is gravytrain on that.

It is literally a mid-range compromise there.

42 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

Yep. Which is why it is a discussion , rather than a no-brainer.

If absolute black is your thing, then Torpedo, OE and Ordnance. Ackbar and TRC will pour that on, too.
If absolute range is your thing, Scout and TRC. Ackbar is a no-brainer add there.

If you want a mid-range compromise........ Torpedo is it... Ackbar and TRC is gravytrain on that.

It is literally a mid-range compromise there.

Yes. And IMO it's a weaker, less efficient build.

But, I wasn't really concluding. Merely asking - is this efficient?