2 minutes ago, ScoutTrooperV said:

@Degenerate Mind There was a post months back that talked about different house rules used by others to attempt to balance their tables further beyond the RAW. There was a mention about how Auto-fire is OP. So to counter it. Instead of the cost always being 2 advantages for another target or another application of the damage. It costs an additional advantage beyond the first. 2,3,4,...etc.

The same player I mention above could literally clear rooms of minion level baddies. If they rolled the highest Initiative, nobody else really had to do anything.

Well, here's to hoping I don't have to worry about implementing that houserule any time soon! One of my less OP players might decide they like the sound of shooting three people in one round sometime.

@Degenerate Mind Oh don't get me wrong, it did allow the other players to relax and stop thinking they have to prep for survival in combat. It just really got me, when he blew two Inquisitors down even after me spending strain and penciling in "Improved Reflect" to try and keep them up for another round.

Just now, ScoutTrooperV said:

@Degenerate Mind Oh don't get me wrong, it did allow the other players to relax and stop thinking they have to prep for survival in combat. It just really got me, when he blew two Inquisitors down even after me spending strain and penciling in "Improved Reflect" to try and keep them up for another round.

Holy crap. That's some crazy ****, right there. I bet the Rebels wish they had a dozen of him.

11 minutes ago, ScoutTrooperV said:

If they rolled the highest Initiative, nobody else really had to do anything.

This could be fixed equally with some delicate encounter design rather than house rules. Mr. Big Guns™ wants to lay waste to minions, great! But there should be something else for the rest of the group instead of just standing around trading blows. Someone has to stop that timer on the self-destruct. Someone has to open the blast doors so the group can flee. Someone has to keep a lookout for and deal with enemy sharpshooters outside Mr. Big Guns™' range. These are just examples, but they illustrate an interesting encounter beyond what damage is dealt and gives the non-combat PCs important elements to contribute.

@themensch Exactly what I was talking about. His actions did allow the other players to start thinking of other things to do. Especially when I did trap them on a Nebulon-B that was under heavy bombardment followed up by boarding parties of Imperials. Or they had to escape the prison atop an unfinished spire in Coruscant. Or they were on foot in a desert when snipers from unseen locations began lighting them up.

See we had recently converted from Saga, so everyone was still sorta combat orientated anytime blasters started going off.

5 hours ago, Grimmerling said:

Less combat! More of the interesting stuff!

This, entirely. Combat does not need to be a major part of the game. Give them some missions where combat just won't accomplish the goal.

Blackmail a governor; steal information from an imperial base (if they know the info was stolen, it's no good); track down & locate (but do not engage) a fugitive/spy/ex-wife; assassinate someone (without hurting guards) and blame it on a criminal syndicate.

Now to address the combat itself, because you don't want to just stop having fights altogether. First, this isn't that tanky - he's not actually all that impossible to hit. It isn't terribly hard to build incredibly effective combat monsters. Soak 5-6 isn't all that hard to get, really. Even soak 11-12 is well within reasonable numbers. Breach/Pierce help, but cortosis is a thing too.

Lets look at the numbers: 4-5 upgrades and 3 defense don't make things impossible either. Lets assume 5 upgrades, 3 defense - that's three red die and three black die on a short ranged attack. Give a squad of bad guys 5 agility, 4 ranks in ranged (whatever), and superior disruptor rifles. A few test attacks and I think you should be hitting about half the time, with a quarter of the attacks activating crits. The attacks usually hit for 11-15 damage, which should drain strain rapidly. Alternatively, the same stats using static ssb pistols are fun too - "ok, you managed to stop the darts, but the massive electrical charge numbs your arms; take 8 strain (plus whatever got taken for dodge/reflect)." Either option will down the character fairly quickly. Make sure to track strain - 3 strain a round from using dodge, added to 3 strain for every reflected attack will add up very quickly, and can easily down a character all by itself.

Look for weapons with active qualities - those usually aren't reflectable. Active stun, ensnare, blast, and burn aren't reflectable.

Also, give him escort missions. A client needs to escape, he needs to hold the door. Just killing and surviving bad guys isn't always a win - he has to keep them off other people too. If the princess dies, then you don't get your reward.

This doesn't even consider the possibilities of just having tie-fighters strafe him or missile tubes bombard him.

Finally, get a white board and make a character chart, listing wounds and strain for every character and make it clear and visible to everyone. This both minimizes cheating and provides an easy reference so the support types in the party know who needs help. In my experience, when rule-lawyers get combined with munchkins cheating happens. The more public things are the harder they are to deal with.

(Note: Not talking about the rules lawyering bit, that's a different issue and well addressed).

Something I didn't realize till I did for in-game reasons is how much shooting at Jedi with Stun weapons nerfs reflect. The massive advantage to reflect is the ability to take small amounts of strain to reduce incoming damage. When you take small amounts of strain to reduce incoming strain, your bang for your buck is much smaller.

Its obvious in retrospect, but I didn't see it until I had security guards in a crowded street using stun setting to limit bystander casualties.

I sympathise.

The more I see posts like this I *facepalm* and think 'What happened to role playing for s**** & giggles, getting together with your mates, socialising with fellow SW geeks/nerds/fanboysgirls while chugging beer (if old enough) or eating zero nutritional value crap like sweets/candy, crisps/chips, party sausages, antipasta, stuffed olives, Christmas mini cheeseboards, pizza (and wait for it... occasionally fruit and/or fruit juice!!!)

I remember one player who for every OWoD character, regardless of supernatural origin, wanted a cellar/basement full of military hardware, not just weaponry... *facepalm*. The GM eventually asked us all to ramp up our characters therefore levelling the field...

.... we would regularly get the **** kicked out of us. The player eventually came around to gaming instead of powergaming

On 10/4/2017 at 6:39 AM, HistoryGuy said:

I do like this idea because a some of the players have told me that they feel kinda useless because he is trying to make himself so good at everything. I even had a player leave and another threatening to leave because of him. I do have support from a couple other players and the one that left to start a new group.

If you've gotten to this point it's time to have a frank talk about the social contract, that everyone present has an obligation to ensure everyone has a good time, and that he is spoiling the broth and souring people on the game. These kinds of conversations are hard to have, but if your players are pushing for a new venue without him and you find him unpleasant at the table? It's already past the optimum time to act. It's not on the other players to quit. It's on him to shape up or gracefully bow out. That doesn't mean there can't be some compromise, or that he can't have some pro from dover moments of glory, but truth be told life is too short for unhappy sessions. And, in my experience, argumentative power-gaming rules lawyers are control-freaks who are almost impossible to talk to and tend to make horrible players and worse game-masters. If he'll listen and make a good faith effort, great, but if he won't it's time for the rest of you to hop into your chartreuse minibus, break into hymns, and move on.

On 4.10.2017 at 3:07 PM, HistoryGuy said:

In my group I have a player that looks for ways to break the game. He will find all the combinations necessary to make his character unbeatable. Just to land a single ranged attack an NPC has to get through a soak of like 5 or 6, two red dice because of sense, a ranged defence of 2, and 2 ranks of reflect and improved reflect. Melee attack are just as difficult with a melee defence of 3 and a rank or two in perry. He will usually come out of a session with a damage or two if not unscathed.

How do I overcome this and make it challenging to him without killing all my other PCs who, even with the same XP total, get seriously hurt in the session. I could focus fire on him the whole session but that doesn't seen fair either. I think his only real challenge left is my Inquisitor one on one or Darth Vader.

That is a pretty standard, maybe even weak character with a few points of XP. And he is an melee on top, so unless the rest of the group have the tactical finesse of a Maginot Line, they should be not as close as the lightsaber dude and his sense ability merely compensates for being so close to enemy targets. Being that close marks him as well as prime target to shoot first which is good, because it makes him the tank of the group ;-)

On 4.10.2017 at 3:39 PM, HistoryGuy said:

I do like this idea because a some of the players have told me that they feel kinda useless because he is trying to make himself so good at everything. I even had a player leave and another threatening to leave because of him. I do have support from a couple other players and the one that left to start a new group.

Combine a rather standard combat character with this above quote and I get the feeling that people who mentioned that you should do less combat and more other stuff are right on point.

No offense, but if one guy builds a combat character and the rest of the group focus on non-combat characters than the solution is not harder combats or removing the combat character from the game, but having less combat and more stuff that is about the strengths of the other party members. The AoR duty system especially encourages this even by triggering adventures focus on certain aspects of characters. Similar can be said about morality and obligations. A GM can make ANY character feel useless, it a question of adventure and encounter design mostly. Know your players and know their characters. This alone should tell you enough about how you can present interesting content for them.

On 10/7/2017 at 4:42 PM, SEApocalypse said:

That is a pretty standard, maybe even weak character with a few points of XP. And he is an melee on top, so unless the rest of the group have the tactical finesse of a Maginot Line, they should be not as close as the lightsaber dude and this his sense ability merely compensates for being so close to enemy targets. Being that close marks him as well as prime target to shoot first which is good, because it makes him the tank of the group ;-)

I know he is weak compared to people who have played for a while, but compared to my other PCs he is a tank. He seems to be advancing faster than most of my other players. He was the first to get a rank in dedication.

I will start targeting him more in combat, but he'll probability fight me on that too. Lol

1 hour ago, HistoryGuy said:

I will start targeting him more in combat, but he'll probability fight me on that too. Lol

Lightsaber users are a cause for panic when they're coming at you. That makes them the primary target in-story.

Making a combat-focused character is telling the GM that you want to focus on combat. That is the out-of-story reason they're the primary target.

Really, they only have themselves to blame.

4 hours ago, HistoryGuy said:

I know he is weak compared to people who have played for a while, but compared to my other PCs he is a tank. He seems to be advancing faster than most of my other players. He was the first to get a rank in dedication.

I will start targeting him more in combat, but he'll probability fight me on that too. Lol

This suggests that he is more focused on were to spend XP. Someone who has a plan for his character development. If people start spreading out there XP more they will have a "power low" in their character development while getting later quite good in multiple things and a lot of variability. Meanwhile someone who specialises first and spread outs later does not run into this issue as he first builds up a leg to stand on. I assume here that everyone gets roughly equal xp and that you did not make the mistake to hand out extra XP for combat success.

Now if the player starts fighting the GM, we might have indeed a problem, especially when it is on something as simple as focusing down the most dangerous person in the group.

On 10/4/2017 at 6:07 AM, HistoryGuy said:

In my group I have a player that looks for ways to break the game.

Easy. Tell him that S won't fly at your table and to knock it off.

On 10/4/2017 at 6:07 AM, HistoryGuy said:

How do I overcome this and make it challenging to him without killing all my other PCs

Easy. Send them to a planet that respects the strength of a Warrior, that the people there will ONLY deal with someone proficient in combat, and not even acknowledge the others in the group. And then make him do all the social stuff in the game. He has to strike deals, wear a tuxedo and be charming at a dinner party, do computery stuff and otherwise do stuff that the character is not built to deal with.

On 10/4/2017 at 6:13 AM, HistoryGuy said:

I should also say this player like to fight me on every single ruling I make that he doesn't like. There have been times I have to stop the session for a few minutes just to look up the rules and show him the RAW. And even then he'll still complain.

"This is not an appropreate time to discuss this. My ruling stands. If you feel the ruling is wrong, then we can discuss after the game. Now, about those stormtroopers. . . ."

I'm a noob yet to play my first session, but I can definitely say that I admire your patience.

I have a Droideka with 5 Agility wielding a T-7 and currently rolling 4 yellow 1 green. He one shot two seperate Nuuno. They died, not because they took a ton of damage but because he crit each 4 times.

I've got a player with a 7 Brawn Clone Trooper in power armor wielding 2 T-7's (so he can alternate each round and keep firing). He's got... like 37 wounds right now, 14 strain and 10 soak with the armor. Rolls 4 yellow on his Gunnery checks.

A lot of my players are pretty beefy, we're at 825 earned xp and towards the end of the campaign. That clone is by far the toughest of the group (better than the group's Wookiee Assassin), so to challenge them requires making some difficult encounters.

They just recently avoided getting spaced out of their own space station, thanks to a PC who counter-sliced a spy in their base who opened the blast doors and shut off the shield in the hangar. The roll was like 5 red 1 purple or something like that (opposed Computers v Computers) and he got like a double-triumph in addition to succeeding.

They may not be heroic (they are straight eeeeeevil) but man are they good at what they do.

4 minutes ago, GroggyGolem said:

I've got a player with a 7 Brawn Clone Trooper in power armor wielding 2 T-7's (so he can alternate each round and keep firing). He's got... like 37 wounds right now, 14 strain and 10 soak with the armor. Rolls 4 yellow on his Gunnery checks.

A lot of my players are pretty beefy, we're at 825 earned xp and towards the end of the campaign. That clone is by far the toughest of the group (better than the group's Wookiee Assassin), so to challenge them requires making some difficult encounters.

They just recently avoided getting spaced out of their own space station, thanks to a PC who counter-sliced a spy in their base who opened the blast doors and shut off the shield in the hangar. The roll was like 5 red 1 purple or something like that (opposed Computers v Computers) and he got like a double-triumph in addition to succeeding.

They may not be heroic (they are straight eeeeeevil) but man are they good at what they do.

Not sure how you get 7 brawn and Roll 4 yellows (True aim?). I assume you mean Ranged Heavy because T-7 is Ranged Heavy.

How do you keep your player from 1 shotting everything? Mine will roll 6 advantage and spends them on 3 crits.

4 minutes ago, _Thriven_ said:

Not sure how you get 7 brawn and Roll 4 yellows (True aim?). I assume you mean Ranged Heavy because T-7 is Ranged Heavy.

How do you keep your player from 1 shotting everything? Mine will roll 6 advantage and spends them on 3 crits.

7 brawn. For this character, got his brawn to 5, wears power armor that increases brawn and has a cybernetic arm enhancing his brawn (cybernetics raise the cap to 7).

Brawn would be unrelated to his ranged attacks since those go off of agility i was just mentioning the brawn to show how tough he made his character.

Yes I meant ranged-heavy and you can have 4 agility and 4 ranks in ranged heavy to get 4 yellows that's relatively easy to do with some xp.

He one-shot a Rathtar (first time I used those creatures) because of rolling 160+ on the crit. It was pretty epic and was really the first time he used the rifle. He didn't aquire this until the last couple sessions because we're heading into the end of the campaign aka "use everything you have because the GM is pulling no punches this time."

Last session they had a combat against the end-boss a little early and on their turf... they managed to deal a total of like 8 wounds to 'em and he was pretty much alone (combat went for 3 rounds before i resolved it narratively and we moved on).

Thank goodness for Coordination Dodge, 5 ranks in Coordination, 10 soak with Cortosis weave armor, etc...

12 minutes ago, _Thriven_ said:

How do you keep your player from 1 shotting everything? Mine will roll 6 advantage and spends them on 3 crits.

Also, you can only crit one time per hit on an attack roll, and every activation after that just adds +10 to the roll. So your player should have spent the first 2 advantage to activate a crit and the other 4 could be spent to add +20 to the roll.

1 minute ago, GroggyGolem said:

Also, you can only crit one time per hit on an attack roll, so your player should have spent the first 2 advantage to activate a crit and the other 4 could be spent to add +20 to the roll.

It's also vicious 6 which adds 60 to their role.

Add lethal blows (my player has 2 which adds 20).

If he gets 2-6 advantage you'll add 10-30 crit rating.

Average is another 50 from a dice roll and my player is averaging a 130-160 crit shot.

151+ is death.

My player back to back shot 2 Nuuno (Mask of the Pirate Queen) for and Crit death both of them.

Yeah that's one of those weapons that shouldn't ever have been written into the game in that way. However, it presents a fun challenge for us as GM's to find a way of getting rid of that monstrosity of a weapon. My player nearly lost one to airlock last session, hoping I'll get one to break entirely soon. Just gotta roll that double triumph. You have to start giving your NPCs the Durable talent & more wounds if you want them to survive a hit or two from the T-7. That or just send wayyyyy more enemies at the PC's because they've essentially got a de-atomizer in their hands. To use NPCs with run of the mill blaster rifles their way just isn't going to cut it in terms of challenging them, the PCs currently have the combat stacked in their favor.

I've found Thermal Detonators to be very effective against PCs.

3 hours ago, GroggyGolem said:

Yeah that's one of those weapons that shouldn't ever have been written into the game in that way. However, it presents a fun challenge for us as GM's to find a way of getting rid of that monstrosity of a weapon. My player nearly lost one to airlock last session, hoping I'll get one to break entirely soon. Just gotta roll that double triumph. You have to start giving your NPCs the Durable talent & more wounds if you want them to survive a hit or two from the T-7. That or just send wayyyyy more enemies at the PC's because they've essentially got a de-atomizer in their hands. To use NPCs with run of the mill blaster rifles their way just isn't going to cut it in terms of challenging them, the PCs currently have the combat stacked in their favor.

I've found Thermal Detonators to be very effective against PCs.

Dunno how its a challenge: NO.

gotten rid of the problem.

You are the GM. The NPC could be naked and have a hold out blaster. Little do the players know that the hold out has an long range, accurate 100 blast 50 damage 50, and that the guy has 100 boost dice to every roll. NPCs arent PCs and dont use the same rules. If they player is giving you a headache you ask nicely for them to stop and if they dont you show them they wont win that argument in game.

1 minute ago, korjik said:

Dunno how its a challenge: NO.

gotten rid of the problem.

You are the GM. The NPC could be naked and have a hold out blaster. Little do the players know that the hold out has an long range, accurate 100 blast 50 damage 50, and that the guy has 100 boost dice to every roll. NPCs arent PCs and dont use the same rules. If they player is giving you a headache you ask nicely for them to stop and if they dont you show them they wont win that argument in game.

You misunderstand. I enjoy the challenge of trying to find a way to make their encounters both challenging as well as balanced. Thermal Detonators are already statted up in the game and have seen very effective use against them in the past. Rather than use GM Fiat to make a peashooter into "The Cricket" from Men in Black, I like finding ways of challenging them within reason and with already statted items. Certainly I could have an enemy just kamikaze their ship into the group and kill them all or introduce a 50 would adversary 8 inquisitor wielding a fully modded double bladed lightsaber with 10 ranks of parry and reflect but that's only fun for me and an awful time for them.

Yup. I am quite a noob in EotE, but my players complained when I started using sensible tactics (sometimes learned form them) against them. Still, now they enjoy combat encounters much more. Kobolds can be dangerous when fighting in their home ground, you know. The same in SW.