Okay... I can buy into all but the last one.

Here I have some suggestions with which you may do as you like JC.

Most of the location cards I have made are dependent upon new purchase items or other goodies I plan to include in the expansion. I assume you want to be able to use the cards as they are with no new stuff required, so I scrapped together some variants of them.

Training Grounds (Castle) - Pay 3G and lose 1 turn then gain 1 Strength.
Notes: contrary to Academy (adventure card) you can only gain strength - and only 1 each visit. This card is play-tested in another context so it may be unbalanced (if so, consider raising the price 1G).

Study (Temple) - Pay 3G and lose 1 turn then gain 1 Craft.
Notes: See above.

Adventurer Guild (Village) - Draw 3 quest cards. You may buy one of them for 1G if you do no already have a quest.
Notes: See this as a billboard for people in need.

Royal Hall (Castle) - Roll 1 die:
1) The King expels you from his kingdom; Go to your starting location and end your turn.
2) Impulsive Knight attacks you with Strength 5.
3) Drawn into a political scheme; change alignment: good to neutral, neutral to evil, evil to good.
4) Ignored.
5) A Wizard offers you to gain one of the following: 1 fate, 1 life, or 1 Spell.
6) Audience at the Court; choose one of the following: gain 1 Strength, gain 1 Craft, gain 2 gold, draw 3 Warlock Quest and choose one to keep, or, choose one character in the middle region that the King expels (see result 1).

Hinnyboy said:

Been there too, though I chickened out on trying to adapt any. All these might well appeal to other players groups. Give me a little time and I'll try to illustrate a few for posting. In the meantime, anyone else can feel free to chime in with suggestions on these or something else entirely. Back later.

Two new space expanders, one from H.B. (with a little extra) and one from me. The latter was spark by H.B.'s mention of expansion cards as ideas; the Herbalist is a replacement Stranger that will be in the In the Balance 2.0 (whenever I finish that). But I think she works as an optional Space Expander as well. Any comments for refinement are welcome for consideration. Both cards are 300 ppi and reduced here; right-click and Save or View to see them full size.

NOTE: Anyone who contributes to a card that ends up in the first Space Expanders pack will of course be noted as a contributor in the included documentation.

That's probably all I'll get to today. I'm headed out to speak at writer's retreat over the weekend come Thursday morning and may be cut off from all internet access. H.B., I'll get to your other card ideas as soon as I can, promise.

As this now seems to be a melting pot, how about using the Horse Trader idea?

Space Expanders seem a better way of doing it than I decided upon. This would leave the space intact and still give Animal Followers an easier way into the game. You'd still need a couple of Purchase cards togo with it though...

Hi

I've been following this thread with interest. I've not had anything to really add in terms of cards (though I would probably edit them in line with my silly group, JC knows the score ).

However, it occurs to me that there is something of a meta idea to be had. Let me explain;

What I mean is, you've got all these locations for certain areas of the board. They either expand on the ideas already on the board or add new things. To me, that's really interesting and certain adds an extra level of variety, which is pretty much what we're seeking for in Talisman these days.

However, I think there's a bit of a missed opportunity. To whit, decision making.

One of the issues I've got with Talisman (and its longevity for me) is that it is a great "easy" game to pick up and play. I mean, it doesn't tax the brain and doesn't require a Ph.D. to play it (which is great for new/non-gamers). But I've got lots of games which I like to play and Talisman can take hours. In fact, the last few games I've played have been very dull for (too many players, not enough stuff happening, dull turns). Part of this is because of the deck consistency (I'll talk more about this on the House Rules section). The other part is the fact that every new expansion adds more of the same and not enough "intrigue" (and I use that term in the sense of interest/engagement).

JC's Quest expansion added elements of decision making. That's great, as far as I am concerned. Talisman needs more of this!

My basic approach to Talisman is that there should always be a decision to make. And for me there should be about how much control you have over your turn. The more control you have, the less dramatic the results but the more likely you get close to the result you want. I'm not sure how to implement that as a concept wholepiece across the game yet (and if I did, it might end up being a different game to Talisman). However, I see an opportunity to implement that idea within the space expander cards.

My thoughts are:

1) Randomise which location cards are in play each game.

2) Each card should have an automatic, do something for a cost (pay a life, gold, miss a turn, what have you).

3) Each card should also have a die roll. You have a choice of rolling 1 die or 2 dice. With really high results yielding something great and really low results yielding something Bad.

E.g.

1DIE 2DIE RESULT

2-3 Lose enough Lives to reduce you to 1

1 4 Lose 1 Life

2 5 Fight a baddy, Str 7

3 6 Fight a baddy, Str 5

4 7 Gain a Gold Coin

5 8-9 Become Good

6 10 Gain a Life

11-12 Replenish all your Fate

Doing a great job here JC.

As for the Shiek, might I suggest changing to Sultan ?

I think, although am probably wrong, that a Sheik is more of an academic and Sultan is more of a ruler and hence more suitable.

Of course, maybe I have Sultan wrong too...possibly got those the wrong way round in case you were right in the first place.

I would also make the sword a bit thicker and more scimitar-like.

Oh if only I had the time to do any of these things...

As for the back, I think it is great - maybe fade the map relief a touch but it should certainly remain.

Looks vaguely Tolkeinesque map style. Like it.

One last thing about the styling - what about changing the shape of the card so it is not the standard dimensions of the Adventure card.

Make it a bit more of a square shape, might help in fitting in extra text as well as helping to distinguish it from the other cards that will be

placed on a space.

BanthaFodder said:

I have a template that I used for alternative Inner Region space expanders. Not sure of their size compared to the corner spaces etc...

Hey there, Bantha

BanthaFodder said:

Nope. The following source isn't deep or thorough but roughly matches my personal resources. Sheik is the proper term in this case as an "assumed" title.

Sheik: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sheik?o=100074
Sultan: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sultan?o=100074

BanthaFodder said:

Though of Persian origin, the shamshir was the more widely used weapon (by configuration, not name) among the desert peoples of the Arabian peninsula. The weapon styles are similar, but the shamshir is lighter and more suitable to nomadic peoples, particularly for horseback. Of course, if something a bit more to the intimidating side would work better, that's fine too. The sword in the image (a small infighting shamshir style) does need work, as does removing the tartan pattern from some of the clothing. I'll try to address this while away at the retreat this weekend.

BanthaFodder said:

Okay, I'll give it shot.

BanthaFodder said:

Great minds think a like! I had thought of that, and even tried it, but a number of issues were pretty evident afterwards.

1. The standard shape fit better on board spaces if players wish to still reveal the space's text.
2. The typical method for making homemade cards is to print fronts and backs and slip them into a sleeve like other cards; there are no square sleeves that I could find. And I didn't want to force people to buy extra sleeves of a different size just fro these cards.
3. Most game owners have worked out how to store their cards, either in boxes or in trays (re)worked for the game box. That storage is based on known standard shapes and sizes.

And now, for the card backs to review. If everyone wants, they can chime in with their 1st, 2nd, and even 3rd choice, referencing by number, 1 through 6. Not all graphics are print resolution; but all are reduced to the same size in display for easier comparison. Further tone, texture, and contrast work can be applied as well to a final choice.

talismanisland said:

Sure, why not? I couldn't come up with enough options to make for wide selection by any one players group, so the melting pot approach seemed best. But a suggestion if I may. If the card is to be in the City (??? I don't remember its placement), then may we call it "The Stables" if need be? We have a pretty good balance of locations and personas, not that this matters with the way these cards work. But either way is okay by me - your card, your call. Send or remind me of the card's content and I'll start on it soon, but...

I will be digging around for a way to illustrate it in my usual manner. I'd like to keep us off using "borrowed" artist's work as much as possible.

And I have always thought the Horse Trader would make a great Stranger by standard encounter in the wild rather than placed! It is kind of the antithesis of the Horse Thief... and you know how I'm into the whole balance thing.

talismanisland said:

Hmmm... yes, that is an issue, though I would hope the Horse & Cart would be reissued as a Purchase card. At least for the base game, your card would put in a standard place for buying Mules. The Market alone is not enough, and never was.

oooo... what a minute! That just sparked another card idea. A Market is always in a City or Town, not a village or in the wild... hmmm! If I go that direction, I will leave out livestock (equines) since they are not sold at such.

If you think we should include some Purchase cards with this SE cards, that's fine... or maybe there are other expansions with equines (even aside from my own), that can be recommended for use with these cards. Heck, we could recommend any number of others in documentation, if there are some cards out there that would interact well with these as resources.

dth said:

I've been following this thread with interest. ...though I would probably edit them in line with my silly group, JC knows the score ).

Heh heh! Wouldn't we all.

dth said:

Okay, but go back and look at my opening post that started this topic. I did something similar to this, though in a motif that had three ways to implement the cards from game to game. Maybe you can make some improvements there or present more options that are in the hands of individual players groups.

dth said:

So every card has a sacrifice for gain option and a die roll option? I suppose for cards intended to replace a space's instructions (see the Darkest Knight or the Temple of Balance) they could lean that way, but for cards that add to a space that already both of these mechanics, wouldn't that be going a bit far? Some of the cards here are:

1. Replacing all space instructions
2. Replacing one space option or instruction
3. Adding a new space option or instruction

What you suggest would work for #1, but overrides giving players cards that are designed to use for #2 and #3. Do you have a specific card concept you can present that helps show us what you have in mind?

Okay, I know I've already posted a whole page worth of posts, but... things are getting a little chaotic, so I'm itemizing cards that I must still illustrate and present for review. Let me know if I missed one that any of you have put in this topic.

Hinnyboy

• Training Grounds (Castle) - Pending; NOTE: Would calling this "the Master at Arms" be okay? That is the title of an individual responsible for training all internal castle forces vs military officers in charge of garrisoned soldiers to be sent into the battle.
• the Study (Temple) - COMPLETED; See "the Athenaeum" - H.B. (or anyone) let me know if this meets with your approval for what was added.
• the Adventurers Guild (Village) - Pending; I would suggest this card with another title might be better suited to the Tavern.... just a thought, and it is your call.
  It gives me the impression of paying for information from some seedy source, since it is still slightly random and not a just choosing a quest. Taverns are now the pop-culture tradition (though cliche) for staring points in fantasy adventures.
• Royal Hall - Pending;

Jon New

• the Horsetrader (City?) - Pending;

JC

• the Market Place (City) - Pending; I was imagining a place where Purchase could be bought except for Follower "animals" and anything sold by the Blacksmith. Then again, for commercial cards, that only leaves water bottles and a raft. Maybe this notion isn't going to work based on just commercial Purchase cards.

I had a bit of time to put together another card, though I didn't find a whole image that was very good (within my restrictions). I chose not to do one of my usual pastiche works, as the time input wouldn't be worth it for the size of image.

H.B., as you can see, there were some problems. The text took over the card. Parts of the roll table wouldn't fit and had to be trimmed. I added one or two tweaks - subject to your approval. Much as I don't personally care for random bonuses to Strength or Craft too often, I think this would still appeal widely to players who land on the Castle and have no need of its standard options. Comments or suggestions anyone?

One additional issue is of course that players need to have expansions with Quest cards for #6 to make sense. Contrary to views around here, not all groups will have those cards/expansions.

Ok, my bad on the Sheik/Sultan thing. Should have done a search first but did it in a hurry during a break. (like this one)

I just knew that was going to be the case with the sword as well... ;-)

Top Middle for the card back for me.

I see where you are coming from with the card size but I think it really would benefict from being a different size.

As they are not having to be mixed-in with existing cards they do not have to match and so do not have to have the same

sleeve. What about plain old laminating ? It is dirt cheap to do anyway. The Royal Court could certain do with it.

If laminating then there is no reason why the template could not fit the square it is replacing exaclty, or, if additional just the image

and leaving the text portion.

In my dreams you ocould actually print them on wooden blocks and form your own board as a jigsaw....

A lot of nice cards there JC.

-
Regarding card back: I would probably vote for upper right card.

-
Regarding Athenaeum:

I like that you added a choice to Athenaeum though I don't get what it do.
I have two possible interpretations:
1) You buy 3 spells and choose 1 for 1G.
2) When you gain 1 spell while you stand on this location you may choose to pay 1G to draw 3 spells instead of 1, and choose 1 to keep. No matter the source of the spell gain (and no matter .

Is any one of my interpretations right? If so I see issues with both.
1) I think it is way to cheap.

2) Wizard, Sage, Prophetess and Warlock are extremely favoured since they gain spells very easy and the rest of the characters have a really hard time gaining spells (since they usually gain spells from cards which you cant get from this location). Another thing is the question if you could use this for every spell you gain or only once. Furthermore I don't like the fact that this effect is not resolved when landing here but when you gain a spell, which could be any time during the round.

A variant could be that you pay 1G for access to the archives or whatever and for each turn you choose to research (lose) you draw 2 spells when you are finished. Choose 1 of these spells to keep. (perhaps with different wording)

-
Regarding Horse Trader: If you have the phrase "if available" you could include prices for a lot of different horses, but since only mules are available in the standard purchase deck you could not buy anything else. It is then up to each one to include other cards if he/she wants. You could still sell riding horses and horse and carts acquired from the adventure deck (from reaper expansion)

-
Regarding Training Grounds: It is absolutely fine if you call the card "the Master at Arms" instead.

-
Regarding the Adventurers Guild: This card actually started as "Gossiper", but I then added more stuff to it and it deviated from a gossiper. But since I have scaled the other stuff away again I suppose some it is better to revert to "gossiper" (or similar).

Talisman is full of clichés so I think the Tavern is an excellent "home" for this rumour spreading creature.

-
Regarding the Royal Hall: I think I prefer a fixed value of strength instead of 2D6 (just like the farmer in tavern, spirit in crags and brigand in forest) and I would skip the part about followers to keep things as simple as possible (in order to gain space at least). I rather like the notion that you could persuade the king to banish another character from the middle region, if anything, remove the quest gaining part (then you avoid the problem of having an expansion as well.

Keep up the excellent work JC

BanthaFodder said:

Personally, I do agree with you. But I try to do what might be best for as many players groups as possible. I've actually tested a few alternative sized cards with some groups I keep touch with abroad. No major objections, but the concerns I raised did originate with them. Granted, a "few groups" is not a big sampling, but still...

BanthaFodder said:

A few of us have toyed with a similar notion. I still have an old project sitting and waiting; creating equal sized mini-boards of one space each so that each space could be drawn randomly and laid out (by region, and not mixed regions) as the game is played. But it'll have to wait a while longer. Jon has had a similar notion in the past using cards to be the spaces, probably playing card sized.

Hinnyboy said:

It looks like my wording isn't working. Some characters can draw a spell wherever they are by special abitlity, a follower, or an object (such as the Wand). That would be the only way this option could be used. Since all multiple option spaces require (by standard rules) that you choose only one option, it is already implied that if you gain a spell by using another option at the Temple, you could not use the Athenaeum for reseach as well.

The 1 Gold is therefore only part of the cost. An adventurer would have to (1) get to the Athenaeum and (2) be ready to draw a spell when landing there. So it is not as cheap as it looks, and definitely not easy to use. It requires a bit of luck and/or tactical choices. You have to have the one gold for basic research versus 3 Gold and missing a turn to gain a Craft (which is a better benefit in the long run, and thereby costs more). But if the research option is not working, or not clearly understood, then it needs to be "tweaked" or completely removed.

Hinnyboy said:

True, and exactly what I thought, and also the reason why prices might be left off or minimal on the card. I have another card that tries to get around this by simply stating purchase by "highest price in the game." But it's not a great solution either.

Hinnyboy said:

Okay, great. I'll try to come up with a title in that vein when I get to that card, subject to your approval when it is produced for review.

Hinnyboy said:

Go it. All changes and reversions you state will be forthcoming in a revision. If space for the illustration increases enough, I will work at making a better illustration.... though that will take more time. I don't mind if I know ahead of time that it will be worth the effort and fit on the card.

Thanks for all the input and back'n'forth on additional ideas. It really helps. I must now pack up for the 4.5 hour drive to the Pacific pennisula rainforest and the writers retreat. I've checked in with people already there, so wireless internet is setup and functioning. I have a busy schedule of meets, greets, and presentations over the next four days, but I'll have time to drop n here as well and possibly doing some simpler card work. I have all my development materials on a portable drive ready to go. Talk to you all soon.

Finally made it to the retreat and just got online before I'm off to dinner and unpacking. A couple of quick notes besides those previously posted.

• Jon - finally got off my lazy butt and just download your Horsetrader, so I am set to do a version. If you have adjustments vs that version for things talked about concerning Purchase cards, let me know herein or via email. Otherwise the SE version will be verbatum.
• Hinnyboy - I'll get on the new version of the Royal Court you described and go back over "research" at the Anthenaeum to potentially offer you something else more in keeping with your notes.
• BanthaFodder - I haven't forgotten the Sheikh, and I will get to refining the artwork
• Dth - I finally understood what you were after on the 1d vs 2d mechanic (I think it just went over my head the first time amid all else happening here). It definitely got me thinking. I may try that on a new version of the Temple of Balance. You can see if I get the mechanics right, and everybody can decide if it's better, worse, or just flat out not worth it.

About the card back, some have liked #2 with the darker background tones and lighter map features. I'll assume others people are okay with that as well. I will work a little more on that latter.

And at the end of the list, I will mock up a fast square card (height and width = height of standard card), present a proportional visual on one a board space, and people can express their individual perspectives. It would afford more room on a card (though less than half of them might need it), but there are counter concerns.

Back tomorrow... JC

Hinnyboy & JC

The Horsetrader on the site has some Purchase cards with it for characters that would like to buy a Horse or a Horse & Cart. I think until those Purchase cards are made available in a future expansion that is the best way to go about it.

This of course gives you the opportunity to sell Adventure card versions of these, but you would only be able to buy Purchase card versions of them!

JC, if you would like to just include the Purchase cards I made for that expansion then please do so. I think just a couple of each would be required for the space expander to be interesting.

Oh, and I think I prefer card back #3. The colours are not as garish it seems, especially the centre one, and it very nicely gives me a sense of the Outer, Middle and Inner regions.

I was thinking the same thing on the Purchase cards once I saw them. I was also thinking of a possible note on the card concerning any other "equines" that end up in a game. But perhaps the second point is something any group would just work out for themselves.

Point noted on your card back preference. I will remember when it's time to produce a final or second range of selections to consider.

I think as it is home brew, it would be just as easy to remake the Horsetrader "space" if any further cards appear in future. It's a good excuse to issue an updated expansion anyway!

talismanisland said:

Okay, that's just as good.

And here are a couple of card updates for people to look at....

On the Royal Court, I have one last more suggestion, though feel free to tell me to knock it off. Most gains of instant Craft and Strength in the game come from magical or theurgical sources. For those that don't, they usually have a cost in Gold and/or Turns. Perhaps something tasty but more mundane would fit a gift from the King and Queen? "Royal Boon! Gain 1 Purchase card of choice, or 3 Gold, or banish another character in the Middle Region (see #1)."

And now, two alternative versions of the old Temple of Balance, one of which uses Dth's new mechanic for choosing number of dice to roll. As you can see, it takes a bit of extra space to get to columns of numbers in there. Give me you best assessment as to whether eitther of these is an improvement or just as problematic as the first version.

Back tomorrow... again... and still hunting for some graphics to use on cards not yet done.

Another brief pitstop; things are busy at the retreat today, so nothing new in cards quite yet. Jon, I have something coming up for the Horse Trader; you'll see it by tomorrow along with potentially another card as well to review.

ADDITIONAL: Dinner was delayed, so I sat in the lounge and finished off a couple of things. Below are the cards for review. JON, the illo for the Horse Trader may need some more work; all content on the card is subject to your corrections and approval.

The Sheriff... is my attempt to address a longstanding snafoo in the game. Back when the City and other corner spaces were still a matter of full choice, no one visited the Enchantress willingly. (Who would?) The later force of choosing an option was a bad choice versus trying to fix space options that never really worked from the beginning. With the Sheriff, if you land on the space you still have an out, for a price. If you have no goid and can't afford to miss a turn, well, the Enchantress still waits for you.

The Shop Square is a weaker card by comparison. It is an attempt to put in something that will allow purchase of Objects without competing with the Horse Trader or the Blacksmith in the village. Among standard cards, that leaves only a Water Bottle and a Raft. But most groups using fan made cards already are accustomed to (or have additional) non-commercial Purchase cards. Let me know what you think.

All cards can be righ-clicked (View or Save) to view at full 300ppi resolution.

As always, I think you are doing a great job JC.

I think research in Athenaeum is much more useful for the majority of characters now, but I wonder if it would be worth it to lose one gold and up to three turns to gain 1 spell (from a choice of up to three cards). It may be to costly.

In the Royal Court, go for your suggested alternative, it is better.

A few suggestions to the other cards you made:

Regarding the Bunkroom: I think this card has great potential but it costs much more than it tastes. I would add a additional benefit to stay here. Perhaps replenish a fate (I know it is strange - but it works I think). Perhaps a character can evade any encounter with other characters while here (though it will not make up for the price I think).

Regarding the Catacombs: I think the prerequisite for rolling on the catacombs table is a bit too complicated (it would add unnecessary bookkeeping in my opinion). It may be dull but I suggest that you stick to losing one life instead, like the graveyard equivalent.

Regarding the Temple of Balance: I vote for the card to the right in the latest post.

Regarding the The Shop Square: Consider renaming it to "market square", in my ears at least, it sounds more medieval. Also I would like to see the the adventurer desperate enough to buy the water bottle for 4G (or more) . I think it is better to include the water bottle and raft on the card itself (like you did with horse trader) for more reasonable prices and then include a similar part as you did with horse trader. E.g. You may buy any object from the purchase deck that is neither an Armour or Weapon at its indicated price (assuming that the price is printed on the card itself).
Also I wouldn't include the part about enemy followers. Simply imagine you leave these outside the city walls. Otherwise you must include the same restriction to about every other place you go to that has human inhabitants for it to make sense. And what about the ghoul and ogre and troll character, are they welcome? No I think it is much better to simply leave these matters be.

Hey H.B.! Lots of good input!!! Don't have a lot of time this morning, as its time to pack up and head for home, but I'll address some things herein just briefly.

Hinnyboy said:

Yeah, like minds. I've had some of the same concern, though since the time I posted that card I realized I got the wording wrong. Here is another updated version.

What actually happens is that for each turn missed an adventurer would draw 2 cards; after missing 3 turns (youch!), 6 cards would be drawn, so there's a lot of chance for a getting a type of spell (if not a specific) that is needed. Stil, I'm not sure it's working well enough, as you've pointed out. It might be best to just make it a straight out 1G, 1 Turn, Draw 3, keep 1. Afterall, its not like it is easy to hit that one space in random movement, and you have to make it into the Middle Region to do so.

Hinnyboy said:

Okay, wanted to check before I did anything more to your card.

Hinnyboy said:

Yeah, agreed... I simply didn't want to make it as potent as standard healing spaces and Adventure cards. It should be more costly and limited compared to those. I also tried to sink in just a bit more verisimilitude, which is the way my group leans. But it may be too much. Most certainly, you should be able to evade all combat while there. And perhaps all spells? That's getting to be a lot for one card's text, but could be worked out.

Hinnyboy said:

Okay, others not on the forum have expressed a similar concern, and Dth has gotten on me for my bookkeeping mechanics as well. A Life it is.... or maybe for the Chapel a Fate point?

Hinnyboy said:

Got it. I'm still wavering on the ToB concept as a whole. I'll wait to see what others might have to say.

Hinnyboy said:

Regarding the The Shop Square: Consider renaming it to "market square", in my ears at least, it sounds more medieval. Also I would like to see the the adventurer desperate enough to buy the water bottle for 4G (or more) . I think it is better to include the water bottle and raft on the card itself (like you did with horse trader) for more reasonable prices and then include a similar part as you did with horse trader. E.g. You may buy any object from the purchase deck that is neither an Armour or Weapon at its indicated price (assuming that the price is printed on the card itself).

Go it on the Title, though the Water Bottle price would be as listed for the Market and not the highest price of all items in the game. I guess that wording needs work; it refers to the potential that some items are actually sold at different prices (or were in past editions) depending on where you buy them. Your other suggestions for pricing are probably good, though I'm not sure about listing specific items. I suppose it wouldn't hurt.

Hinnyboy said:

I have other cards that limit some or all "Enemy" followers in locations or activities. The term "Enemy" is usually there, which thereby excludes Characters even if they match a particular type of Enemy. I don't think most players would try to interpret any Character thereby as an Enemy taken as Follower; a lot of players are far to niggling and greedy and pouty and wouldn't reason themselves into another unwritten limitation.

I like to force adventurers (and thereby Players) to really treat Followers as beings... instead of just "prosthetics" for characters that can't be stolen as easily as Objects. Moreso considering there is no limit on Followers as there is on Objects in the game. I'll have to think about this detail, but I can see your point for groups at large vs how my group and my couple of test groups abroad like to play the game.

Gotta run and pack up for the road. I'll be back with some changed cards and hopefully cards not done yet by late tonight or more likely tomorrow.

The Horsetrade is great JC. I don;t know whether I would add the proviso about newer horse cards, but it is clear enough and saves people printing out a new updated version every time. Nice work.

talismanisland said:

Great! If you want the proviso out, I'll remove it, but as stated it implies what to do for present or future "equines"; I did it mostly based on the three test groups I use, which are all using some of the 4ERR Part 1: Equines cards... so they definitely have more than mules. I'm going to tweak pronoun usage as follows, since the instructions and priviso are contradictory in this. Check the following and make sure it is to your satisfaction.

Here are some further update cards (I'm stuck at the retreat and can't escape showing up at closing ceremonies).