The Mating Grounds looks great! Kudos!

I'm not sure I understand the point of the attack/attacked thing in your next three cards.

If I understand correctly, when enemies are "on the attack", they attack you, which is what they do anyway, and when they are attacked, you attack them (or not).

So are these spaces mostly ways to avoid attacking enemies? If so, what is the point of Tanglewoods?

JCHendee said:

Wow, firstly, amazing job! Sorry but only briefly dipping in now and again. v.v. busy

What I meant was that I was still thinking about standard sized cards being easily mixed up with adventure cards

and (for my money) needed some way to stand out.

Then I thought about stand up rather than stand out

and maybe the expansion cards could use the character discs a-la 1st/2nd edition - that your character on the board used

to make them stand up.

so that the expansion cards were vertical rather than flat on the board and thus differentiate from the adventure cards.

Of course, in that case you might want them to be double-sided and no back.

Black Dawn said:

Contrary to some misinterpretations, the adventurer is not always the attacker.

The Enemy is on the attack when:

1. you draw an Enemy for the first time,
2. you roll one off of a die table, or
3. one somehow is moved on to your current space and can engage you in that same turn.

You are on the attack when:

1. you land on an Enemy already in play,
2. have some spell, item, or follower advantage to do so, or
3. willfully (somehow) lure/summon/bring one to your space.

Attack vs attacked can affect some special abilities, use of some spells, etc. Keeping this in mind, read how two of the three cards tweak the attack vs. attack status.

For the Tanglewoods, Enemies are always on the attack... period. These woods are so dense that even if you know an Enemy is waiting there... it is waiting and can jump you while you search for it. [in stituations of "cover", the waiter always has the advantage over the searcher.] This also hints at some of the other attributes of that terrain/space altering card. You can hide there from the a-typical PvP crap of even a Troll with a couple of Craft boosting items slinging a spell clear across the land. But of course, it is slightly dangerous place to hide.

The old 2E version of the Assasin (vs the 4ER one that is being nerf / de-evolved by a lot of groups) could only assassinate when he attacks and not when he was attacked. If he enters the Tanglewood, he can forget about sneaking up on anything to backstab it. On the other hand, certain characters can evade or be safe in the Woods, in the Tanglewoods, at least for one turn, they might take a breather amid a moment's limited invulnerability. (I have always preferred cards that are two edge and other tactical choices... or just choices period... if a player is sharp enough to see such.)

The Savanna works the other way; you are always on the attack, even when you just drew an Enemy or one is generated by another card or moved on to your space to attack you. You can see it coming a long way off... but it can also see you and all you have with you... from a long way off. The weak ones will think twice about getting anywhere near you if you look too tough (or just gaudy with gear and followers). But those enemies merely evade (there is not instruction to discard them). This makes a space that is hard to pick up easy trophies if you're powered up, but those easy pickings stay around for the weaker characters to go after and level up.

Or at least those were the basic notions I had in mind.

BanthaFodder said:

That's why I through together a unique card front design. There is no way some could ever view them as an adventure, purchase, or spell card. And their motif actually implies "space" rather than "card."

BanthaFodder said:

AH HA! [smacks himself in the forehead] I get it now, and you could certainly try it. Since these are cards you make at home, you could print the front on both sides and forget about the back. But I'm not certain how many other players would be comfortable with that approach, especially those of use who prefer standees to figurines. You could end up with quite a forest of standing cards on that board.

The review package is now ready. You can download it HERE (3.6mb). Within three days I will be removing all display graphics in this topic which are being fed by my private site.

If you find something amiss in the packages content, or have suggestions for improvement in any way, please post herein so all involved are kept up to speed. If no one has any input after a three days, I will consider the package ready to toss into the wild.

Great stuff J.C. Only had a quick look but seems a great expansion.

Just a small thing, you have "The Mating Grounds" twice.

Once with a filename of "Dragons Den".

Oh darn! Thanks for catching that. And it means the count is also 29 and not 30.

ADDENDUM: Archive Update with changes.

ADDITIONAL: An off forum reviewer also asked if the Tanglewoods still counted as a Woods space (and likewise for other cards related to Hills and Plains). The answer is of course YES. The manual has been updated to reflect this, since I forgot to put it in. The archive above has been updated again.

NOTE: any updating I do will always be to the same archive, so it can be (re)downloaded via any link throughout this topic.

Jon, if you're still out there... I realized I forgot to include the Horse & Cart, Mule, and possibly a Riding Horse in the archive. I also didn't mention them in the manual. I'm assuming we should still include them for the sake the Horse Trader. Is the anything concerning this that should be mentioned in the manual?

Are there other cards that should/could/might be included to go with other Space Expanders? Anyone?

Well, as I mentioned in the original version of the Horse Trader, I would only have added two Purchase cards for the Horse & Cart and two for the Riding Horse (or Horse as I call it!) I think there is enough going on in the Adventure deck for those plus the existence of Mules means that extras are not really needed. Think of it as limiting the equine economy!

I have a couple of ideas for some additional Expander cards but at a 29 card count this expansion should provide lots of new playing options. I think we should stick a fork in it and call it done. I think that if the 29 cards are finalized and it sounds like they are , we should get them hosted on Talisman Island and the new Hale Gaming site. So hopefully we'll see the finished expansion soon after the Horse Trader is finalized which sounds like it will be completed before long.

If new ideas and cards are posted that would be great and if there are enough new ones then we could eventually add them to this finished expansion and call it version 2. But in the mean time, let's get this one done before we add new cards. If we keep adding new cards, then this expansion will always be a work in progress. Plus I imagine JC could use a break after all of his hard work in designing these cards.

But by all means if you have an idea for a new card, keep them coming. I'll post in a few days some of my other ideas.

talismanisland said:

Got it... so do the H&C and Horse exist as Purchase cards yet in 4ER? If not, then ones have to be made up (unless you have them). Either of us could slap them together and perhaps take pricing from 2E or 3E for now. Prices could even be put directly on the cards.

jondee986 said:

Agreed, and that's where we're headed. Once things are settle for any support cards needed for an SE card, it goes up for download.

jondee986 said:

It's certainly a possibility, though we've already got quite a few cards for some spaces. I think the City alone picked up 5. And indeed, I need some time to get some other things done... like outlining another novel. Also finishing off a rework of In The Balance, which has been in process for about 3+ months now.

There's still the possibility to simply put out the template in some form so people can make whatever SE card they want.

Space Expanders

FINAL ARCHIVE AVAILABLE (4.4mb)

This package now includes 8 Purchase cards for optional use to support certain Space Expanders that offer them. The manual has been updated to reflect their use. If anyone later finds any errors, typos or other anomalies, let me know. I will simply do another edit for a package update. The expansion will be hosted at Talisman Island and Hale Gaming, and once that is confirmed, the link here will soon be no longer be valid. All images in this topic will be removed.

That's all for this one... for now.

Done...

http://www.talismanisland.com/expansions.htm

Thanks again, Jon!

JCHendee said:

So is the last final archive that you uploaded to me?

[Elric]

Well... you check my sig you'll find the links to where it is now.