I must say it's my favorite Star Wars movie to date. Let's see how VIII measures up.

I loved that they killed off the protagonists. I still remembered the Legends version, with Bria Tharen's squad being wiped out completely and wondered if they'd dare to do the same here. Yes, they could have survived, but I really don't see their death as "lazy" storywriting. On the contrary - we've seen about 10 infiltration missions in eight Star Wars movies where a small force goes up against a far larger one and in all but one of them, they make it out alive. This was a new one, a demonstration that the plucky underdog guerilla group may well win, but that doesn't mean they'll survive.

As for Vader... we are talking about the guy who went "I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it further." and "Apology accepted, Captain Needa." three and a half decades earlier, right?

@Banditks
As others have already mentioned: Everyone dies in the end. That's kind of the point of mortality. Whether the journey to get there takes one movie or six and whether they die on- or offscreen. Usually what's more interesting is what happens before that death.

Jyn and Cassian, well a) they're not stopped because everyone is currently in the business of panicking on account of the whole station being in the explosion radius of the death star. b) Even if they had found something to fly away in, there's an imperial fleet in orbit right above them, presumably with standing orders to detain anything coming up from the planet, soo... they would essentially have just traded one death for another, and that's if they had found any spacecraft in walking distance of the archive tower.

And finally Bodi... well, we'll presumably never know if it was "We identified the shuttle the rebels came in. Painting it on your HUD, take it out!", "A shuttle just made a transmission to the rebel fleet. Painting it on your HUD, take it out!" or "I just saw movement in one of the shuttles - could be a rebel. Painting it on your HUD, take it out!"

6 hours ago, Cifer said:

As for Vader... we are talking about the guy who went "I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it further." and "Apology accepted, Captain Needa." three and a half decades earlier, right?

Examples of a dry, sardonic wit, not terrible puns.

1 hour ago, rogue_09 said:

Examples of a dry, sardonic wit, not terrible puns.

Yeah, but puns are the epitome of a sardonic wit; sarcastic puns even more so.

16 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Yeah, but puns are the epitome of a sardonic wit; sarcastic puns even more so.

That doesn't make all puns good puns though. The one they let Vader say was just plain dumb, at least for the character. "Apology accepted" after killing someone, is a classic trope of villains throughout storytelling history. But that "choke on your aspirations", I would expect that from a Rifftrax audio track, not from the actual script dialogue. And while the pun-lover in me can appreciate the double joke for the word choice (aspirations being both related to ambition, and breathing), it doesn't change the fact that it made me groan when I heard it in the theater.

Just now, KungFuFerret said:

That doesn't make all puns good puns though. The one they let Vader say was just plain dumb, at least for the character. "Apology accepted" after killing someone, is a classic trope of villains throughout storytelling history. But that "choke on your aspirations", I would expect that from a Rifftrax audio track, not from the actual script dialogue. And while the pun-lover in me can appreciate the double joke for the word choice (aspirations being both related to ambition, and breathing), it doesn't change the fact that it made me groan when I heard it in the theater.

Well, that's just it, I don't think that line was a "bad" pun anyway, though really, there is no such thing as a "good" pun. Part of the charm of puns is how low-brow they all are. There is a reason why puns are considered the lowest form of humor. It's also why I love them so much.

Just now, Tramp Graphics said:

Well, that's just it, I don't think that line was a "bad" pun anyway, though really, there is no such thing as a "good" pun. Part of the charm of puns is how low-brow they all are. There is a reason why puns are considered the lowest form of humor. It's also why I love them so much.

I love puns too, but that doesn't mean they are appropriate in any scene, or from any character. While I don't have a problem with the idea of Vader having a dark sense of morbid humor, citing the "Apology accepted" scene, it doesn't mean he's quipping left and right, and it doesn't mean that they are always appropriate. All I can say, is that all of the dramatic tension of that scene died a flopping, choking death on the ground, once Vader spoke. It would've been much better, in my opinion, if he'd just kept his back to him, started the choke, and made a general, non-punny threat to him. Once he said that line, I literally felt all of the tension for the scene, and the building menace, just drain out of me. I remember groaning, covering my face, and just shaking my head. I was back to square one with how drab and dull the movie was for me. Which annoyed me, because I remember that scene starting out as a genuinely good scene, for dramatic tension and escalation of consequences....until that joke.

As a side note to an above comment, I'm not sure how "I'm altering the deal, pray I don't alter it any further" is an example of his sardonic humor? It always felt to me more an example of his ruthless nature, changing anything to accomplish his goals, and threatening people with death if they dare to question him.

See, that's where we disagree. I found the line perfectly in character for Vader, and highly appropriate given who he was talking to. It was basically a warning and veiled threat wrapped up in Vader's wry wit.

3 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

See, that's where we disagree. I found the line perfectly in character for Vader, and highly appropriate given who he was talking to. It was basically a warning and veiled threat wrapped up in Vader's wry wit.

I disagree that Vader bothers with veiled threats (he seems to default to just Force Choking a bit** that annoys him), but yeah, to each their own.

13 minutes ago, KungFuFerret said:

I disagree that Vader bothers with veiled threats (he seems to default to just Force Choking a bit** that annoys him), but yeah, to each their own.

He tends to force choke his own subordinates, and only those who fail him. Krennick was neither . He was simply an overly ambitious officer with delusions of grandeur. And yes, Vader has made such veiled threats in the other movies, once to Admiral Piet, and once to Moff Jerjerrod.

3 hours ago, KungFuFerret said:

As a side note to an above comment, I'm not sure how "I'm altering the deal, pray I don't alter it any further" is an example of his sardonic humor? It always felt to me more an example of his ruthless nature, changing anything to accomplish his goals, and threatening people with death if they dare to question him.

I found the humour in the fundamental misunderstanding of what a "deal" is. "We had a deal."-"I am altering the deal." One party shouldn't be able to alter a deal after it has been struck. Vader is simply dictating his whims. The pretense that this is any sort of agreement between two parties is his private joke that Lando is forced to play along with.

18 minutes ago, Cifer said:

I found the humour in the fundamental misunderstanding of what a "deal" is. "We had a deal."-"I am altering the deal." One party shouldn't be able to alter a deal after it has been struck. Vader is simply dictating his whims. The pretense that this is any sort of agreement between two parties is his private joke that Lando is forced to play along with.

*shrugs*

"...and it's key place in history.

Now, in this room, ladies and gentlemen, you will see how nerds can parse the finest nuance of every scene, and still get everything wrong. Don't look too closely, as it may make you dizzy. Those of you with small children may want to hold their hand...there, there little girl, don't cry. Let's move on folks, we can recover in the next room where we will see a fine example of..."

Honestly, I don't understand the dislike so many people have for the characters in this movie. For the amount of time they had to spend on character in the midst of a big adventure story, the characters were well drawn and iconic, like the characters in the best action/adventure movies (Indiana Jones, Die Hard, Terminator). Jones turned in one of the best performances in all of Star Wars.

Rogue One is not the most ambitious movie, but within its limited scope it is almost flawless (though I also thought Vader's quip was lame).

20 hours ago, KungFuFerret said:

That doesn't make all puns good puns though. The one they let Vader say was just plain dumb, at least for the character. "Apology accepted" after killing someone, is a classic trope of villains throughout storytelling history. But that "choke on your aspirations", I would expect that from a Rifftrax audio track, not from the actual script dialogue. And while the pun-lover in me can appreciate the double joke for the word choice (aspirations being both related to ambition, and breathing), it doesn't change the fact that it made me groan when I heard it in the theater.

On the plus side, it made him more like Anakin and less like Vader.
The clone wars lover in me liked that. ;-)

Now I want someone to Vaderize some of Anakin's super lame lines and lay them in over the pun scene.

2 minutes ago, rogue_09 said:

Now I want someone to Vaderize some of Anakin's super lame lines and lay them in over the pun scene.

"I'll try spinning - that's a good trick."

21 hours ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Yeah, but puns are the epitome of a sardonic wit; sarcastic puns even more so.

Highly disagree. Puns are not inherently cynical.

Vader has a dry wit, as evidenced by his other lines many have referenced here. He doesn't make puns. Puns are not intimidating.

5 hours ago, DaverWattra said:

Honestly, I don't understand the dislike so many people have for the characters in this movie. For the amount of time they had to spend on character in the midst of a big adventure story, the characters were well drawn and iconic, like the characters in the best action/adventure movies (Indiana Jones, Die Hard, Terminator). Jones turned in one of the best performances in all of Star Wars.

Rogue One is not the most ambitious movie, but within its limited scope it is almost flawless (though I also thought Vader's quip was lame).

They could have reduced the number of supporting characters and side plots and focused more on a core ensemble. It wasn't that they were lacking time, they didn't use the time they had particularly well.

4 hours ago, rogue_09 said:

Highly disagree. Puns are not inherently cynical.

Vader has a dry wit, as evidenced by his other lines many have referenced here. He doesn't make puns. Puns are not intimidating.

Says who? Puns are most assuredly cynical and "dry" in their humor. And a great many of them are as sarcastic as can be. Like having fun at a Coroner's reunion, and you know how stiff those can be.

5 hours ago, rogue_09 said:

Highly disagree. Puns are not inherently cynical.

Vader has a dry wit, as evidenced by his other lines many have referenced here. He doesn't make puns. Puns are not intimidating.

To be fair: His pun was a direct threat.

27 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Says who? Puns are most assuredly cynical and "dry" in their humor. And a great many of them are as sarcastic as can be. Like having fun at a Coroner's reunion, and you know how stiff those can be.

For the sake of pedantry, I'll concede that they can be used cynically, as can any joke. But a pun is just wordplay.

And your example, while dark humor, isn't really sarcasm. If said in a lighthearted tone by someone who does think coroner's reunions are fun, it's not sarcasm at all.

1 minute ago, SEApocalypse said:

To be fair: His pun was a direct threat.

Fair since that was the intent of the statement, but it's a groan worthy line for the audience and not in character for Vader as we've seen to this point.

But hey, maybe he's more of a lovable goof than we give him credit for. I'd like to think his voice modulator masks tone, not unlike text based communication.

Just now, rogue_09 said:

For the sake of pedantry, I'll concede that they can be used cynically, as can any joke. But a pun is just wordplay.

And your example, while dark humor, isn't really sarcasm. If said in a lighthearted tone by someone who does think coroner's reunions are fun, it's not sarcasm at all.

Fair since that was the intent of the statement, but it's a groan worthy line for the audience and not in character for Vader as we've seen to this point.

But hey, maybe he's more of a lovable goof than we give him credit for. I'd like to think his voice modulator masks tone, not unlike text based communication.

Yes, and wordplay is a hallmark of a "dry", sarcastic wit.

Also, as for Vader's line, while you may have thought it "groan worthy", not everybody shares your viewpoint. The line was perfectly timed and appropriate for the situation.

If you have a dry wit, you may use wordplay. Doesn't mean every pun is automatically sarcasm. Rectangle/Square argument. Imagine your coroner line performed by Fozzie Bear.

11 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Also, as for Vader's line, while you may have thought it "groan worthy", not everybody shares your viewpoint. The line was perfectly timed and appropriate for the situation.

Also, as for Vader's line, not everybody shares your viewpoint. Frankly, the entire scene only serves to establish Vader in the movie before the coda sequence. The Krennic scene doesn't advance the story of the film at all. 20 bucks says it was part of the pickups/reshoots when they got to editing and thought Vader popping in at the end was abrupt.

You underestimate my power.

So have you... grown more
			beautiful, 
			... for a Senator, I mean.

You are a jedi knight. Only a jedi knight carries a laser sword.