This match was a close one! Not a Rieekan list in sight - this is Ackbar vs Sloane and the game was very close indeed! The game also features full commentary throughout the match. Lists are in the description of the video.

Thanks for posting!

In case anyone wanted to know, 3rd place list was an ackbar fleet with 2x assault frigates with intel officer + TRC, 3 flotillas, and something like 8 a-wings and 6 z-95s or something, and 4th place list was the Rieekan Gallant Haven aces list.

7 minutes ago, GalacticFister said:

In case anyone wanted to know, 3rd place list was an ackbar fleet with 2x assault frigates with intel officer + TRC, 3 flotillas, and something like 8 a-wings and 6 z-95s or something,

Hmm . i have considered somethin VERY similar.. so you have more details on that list?

13 minutes ago, GilmoreDK said:

Hmm . i have considered somethin VERY similar.. so you have more details on that list?

My friend ran it and I actually really like the list because it's so simple but really effective, it's actually pretty much what I said, plus or minus a comms net or some small insignificant upgrade.

Assault Frigate II B: Ackbar, Intel Officer, TRC

Assault Frigate II B: Intel Officer, TRC

GR-75: Hondo I think

GR-75: comms net?

GR-75: comms net?

Fighter wing was 8 A-wings and 6 Z-95s, objectives were most wanted, ion cannon, and salvage run. I might edit this later to key in the flotilla upgrades once he responds to me, but they aren't super important. His list was good against Sloane lists but he ended up facing like two Gallant Haven lists which kinda countered him, otherwise I think he would had a really good chance of winning the whole thing.

54 minutes ago, GalacticFister said:

His list was good against Sloane lists

Did you get to watch his games such that you can elaborate? I was just sitting here thinking "yeah, that looks great, unless you're up against Sloane," so I'm really curious how he dealt with them (and what he faced--there's a pretty big difference between various players' squadron components and how you address them*).

He has 130 points invested in anti-squadron, so yes, it's going to do pretty well against certain types of squadron list. On the other hand, Howl+FC Interceptors will one-shot the Z-95s with about 75% reliability, and the A-wings with about 50%--and the ones they don't one-shot, they'll usually (about 95%) put enough damage on it that the Interceptor's counter and/or Mauler will finish the job. That's an awful lot of attrition to eat upfront, even with 14 squadrons.

I think it's very much going to come down to whose squadron play is better--from the list build, I could see it swinging either way. If Sloane's squadrons jump him under cover of his overlapping flak, yeah, they're going to suffer for it. On the other hand, he doesn't really give them a super strong reason to do so, with no substantial alpha strike capability either anti-squadron or anti-ship, so Sloane's fighters can just wait out the Rebels while going ship-to-ship with whatever their supporting ships are.

He will pretty much always have squadron-phase activation advantage, though, which is pretty nice with that many A-wings in there. Makes their threat range basically the board.

*examples of very different Sloane squadron makeups:

@Tokra:

@GiledPallaeon:

Me:

8 minutes ago, Ardaedhel said:

... so Sloane's fighters can just wait out the Rebels while going ship-to-ship with whatever their supporting ships are.

I agree with pretty much everything you said, but I disagree a bit here. For background, I played in the tournament and helped the person who had this list refine it and also watched a practice game the night before between a competent Sloane player (with relatively the same list as Norm) and this list; this list came out on top in that practice game. I also played against 3 variants of the Sloane list throughout the tournament myself. This Ackbar assault frigate list is weird and the pilot of it is particularly good at playing against Sloane lists with it, so maybe that's it. I could be wrong about my analysis, especially since I lost against Sloane almost every time, but I'll give a shot at explaining my thoughts.

I will make the assumption that on average with 1-2 concentrate fires, the victory will die from a total of 4 volleys while a gladiator will die from 3 volleys. If Ackbar is second, Sloane has to come play in the assault frigate's deadly long range or get a 5 and and risk getting knocked out of the tournament. If Ackbar is first the assault frigates get to be aggressive against Sloane's ships, and since the frigates are more maneuverable and have the first strike of the round Sloane ships will lose the ship war, although...

This is all assuming the squadron war doesn't have an meaningful impact on the ship war, which is the most likely outcome considering: 1. The majority of Sloane players at the tournament did not have intel, and we knew this; 2. ~134 points vs. ~134 points typically results in squadron deadlock until at least turn 4; 3. A-wings are speed 5 and can cover the Assault Frigate's various speeds. Ackbar will definitely lose the squadron war, but if the As and Zs can take half of the Sloane force with them and delay the Sloane squadron force from bombing until round 5/6 there is a really good chance the Ackbar player can pull out the win if he can leverage his ship firepower correctly and kill the Gladiator/Victory and some flotillas. The points for killing the ships and some Sloane squads is usually more than the number of As and Zs and the odd flotilla you lose.

2 minutes ago, GalacticFister said:

the victory will die from a total of 4 volleys while a gladiator will die from 3 volleys.

the Ackbar player can pull out the win if he can leverage his ship firepower correctly and kill the Gladiator/Victory and some flotillas.

Ah, maybe this is the disconnect. I've not seen a VSD/GSD/flotilla Sloane build that I liked, and I agree: VSDs crumple to Ackbar, so I can definitely see this list doing well against that setup.

My thinking was predicated on my own ISD2/QF/Goz setup, which I think has a much better shot at winning the ship-to-ship fight.

Thanks for the explanation, though! Definitely an interesting build. @Matt Antilles is flying something comparable in the Vassal Tournament right now and doing pretty well with it. Weird to see the 2x AF2 + squadrons becoming an archetype again 5 waves later...

9 minutes ago, GalacticFister said:

I agree with pretty much everything you said, but I disagree a bit here. For background, I played in the tournament and helped the person who had this list refine it and also watched a practice game the night before between a competent Sloane player (with relatively the same list as Norm) and this list; this list came out on top in that practice game. I also played against 3 variants of the Sloane list throughout the tournament myself. This Ackbar assault frigate list is weird and the pilot of it is particularly good at playing against Sloane lists with it, so maybe that's it. I could be wrong about my analysis, especially since I lost against Sloane almost every time, but I'll give a shot at explaining my thoughts.

I will make the assumption that on average with 1-2 concentrate fires, the victory will die from a total of 4 volleys while a gladiator will die from 3 volleys. If Ackbar is second, Sloane has to come play in the assault frigate's deadly long range or get a 5 and and risk getting knocked out of the tournament. If Ackbar is first the assault frigates get to be aggressive against Sloane's ships, and since the frigates are more maneuverable and have the first strike of the round Sloane ships will lose the ship war, although...

This is all assuming the squadron war doesn't have an meaningful impact on the ship war, which is the most likely outcome considering: 1. The majority of Sloane players at the tournament did not have intel, and we knew this; 2. ~134 points vs. ~134 points typically results in squadron deadlock until at least turn 4; 3. A-wings are speed 5 and can cover the Assault Frigate's various speeds. Ackbar will definitely lose the squadron war, but if the As and Zs can take half of the Sloane force with them and delay the Sloane squadron force from bombing until round 5/6 there is a really good chance the Ackbar player can pull out the win if he can leverage his ship firepower correctly and kill the Gladiator/Victory and some flotillas. The points for killing the ships and some Sloane squads is usually more than the number of As and Zs and the odd flotilla you lose.

Well. When i see the list, i have to say the squadrons are annoying. The 8 A-Wings can deal great damage against ships while the Z-95 can deal with the enemy squadrons (against minor squadron lists). But fighting against these will cost time. The list itself, with 5 ships, is good as well. But the Mark II have a big problem against the ISD. They can die in one attack.

And against Sloane, i would say it will really depend on the squadron skill of the players. 14+5 deployments are at least really good. The A-Wings can hide with their speed 5. But this could mean that Sloane just kill the ships, and the activation of the squadrons will be a problem.
And i would pick first against this list (the list has 400 points, so no bid and nearly no chance to choose). And with these missions the list has, it will not such a big problem. Even Most Wanted could be taken (risky, but the list has only two ships that can profit of the extra die, and the ISD can be hidden well enough from the Mark II until the squadron fight is over).
5 ships vs. 5 ships. This means the ISD can go last and sending in 5-6 squadrons. After this maybe a Mark II with 4 squadrons can react. And on next turn the ISD activate first again and do another alpha with the squadrons. This means either the enemy squadrons are gone or one Mark II is dead. 11-12 attacks with squadrons, with only a max of 4 A-Wings that can counterattack? This will be deadly. And if done right from the Sloane player, the A-Wings will not even be able to kill a single enemy squadron. No matter how good he rolls. The Z-95 are to slow, they will not be able to attack or be dead already from the first alpha strike.

I would not say the list is made for play against Sloane. And as well not made to stand against a rebel ace squadron list with Ten Numb. It is more made to fight against the BTA ISD. Or to fight other lists with or without squadrons.
It must be really great against a non squadron list with MC80. The A-Wings will just shred through it.

3 minutes ago, Tokra said:

But the Mark II have a big problem against the ISD

I agree with this. However, the prime assumption for the tournament before building the list was that the majority of Sloane lists will run the VSD/Glad/3 Gozantis, which was correct. In the top 8 all but one of the Sloane lists (there were a grand total of 4) had the VSD/Glad/3 Gozanti composition. I know there was at least one Sloane list with ISD2, Quasar, 2 flotillas, but it placed below all the others.

4 minutes ago, Tokra said:

And i would pick first against this list ... 5 ships vs. 5 ships. This means the ISD can go last and sending in 5-6 squadrons. After this maybe a Mark II with 4 squadrons can react. And on next turn the ISD activate first again

If you are going first and both players have 5 ships then you cannot do the last-first technique.

6 minutes ago, Tokra said:

And as well not made to stand against a rebel ace squadron list with Ten Numb.

Yea the player who ran the list really did not want to face any list with Ten Numb, i.e. the Gallant Haven lists. He went against two!

4 minutes ago, GalacticFister said:

If you are going first and both players have 5 ships then you cannot do the last-first technique.

This is not what i have said. I said ISD as last imperial ship. Than the Mark II as last rebel ship (react with max. 4 A-Wings). And ISD again in the next turn.

But the Mark II can only activate a max of 4 A-Wings. This is not really enough compared to 11-12 TIEs.

And just to add, there was already a discussion about the nagionals

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/259317-canadian-nationals-final-stream-2017/

The video during this time was on twitch. But you can read some about the match over there.

16 hours ago, Ardaedhel said:

Ah, maybe this is the disconnect. I've not seen a VSD/GSD/flotilla Sloane build that I liked, and I agree: VSDs crumple to Ackbar, so I can definitely see this list doing well against that setup.

My thinking was predicated on my own ISD2/QF/Goz setup, which I think has a much better shot at winning the ship-to-ship fight.

Thanks for the explanation, though! Definitely an interesting build. @Matt Antilles is flying something comparable in the Vassal Tournament right now and doing pretty well with it. Weird to see the 2x AF2 + squadrons becoming an archetype again 5 waves later...

As a fellow user of the I-2/QF/Goz setup, I'm less threatened by that list than a version using a VSD might be. I'm not sure if my squadrons would fare the worst, since I have the least number and each loss is proportionally more of my firepower, but mine are generally tougher, so each loss requires more investment from the other guy. I would also *probably* take first player just to give myself alpha strike, since if I have second player I still don't avoid both Assault Frigate activations. I would also be fairly willing to play chicken with a single Assault Frigate and try to use the Defenders to blow off a brace or redirect if the squadrons don't offer themselves as a target. It would be a challenging battle, and would probably come down to squadron play, but I'm confident I could avoid a disaster if I don't do anything stupid.

Ya that double assault frigate Ackbar list looked scary. I had a Vic ii/Glad ii/3 gozantis Sloane list, would have been a tough match up for me. I would still prefer to face that than these token farming Super Pickle lists.

25 minutes ago, Kristjan said:

Ya that double assault frigate Ackbar list looked scary. I had a Vic ii/Glad ii/3 gozantis Sloane list, would have been a tough match up for me. I would still prefer to face that than these token farming Super Pickle lists.

You sound bitter about those super pickles for some reason, Kristjan.

The double AFMKII Akbar list is legit. Generic fighter screen behind a jamming field is the remedy to Sloane Ace lists. The remedy to generic fighter screens is all ship and msu. Thus, we begin a turn Armada's meta wheel anew.

I was handily beaten by that AFMKII TRC list. Great player and a good sport.

26 minutes ago, Norboats said:

You sound bitter about those super pickles for some reason, Kristjan.

Ya, that Super Pickle is my white whale. I did win my game against the Pickle, but really only because he had Intel Sweep instead of Sensor Net.

20 minutes ago, Kristjan said:

Ya, that Super Pickle is my white whale. I did win my game against the Pickle, but really only because he had Intel Sweep instead of Sensor Net.

It's funny because the Vic/Glad/3 Gozanti Sloane lists are my white whale. I can't seem to win against Sloane lists with my super pickle, I lost against Jordan's Sloane list in practice, yours, and then Norms. I feel like an absolute dolt because I seem to not learn how to play against them.

11 minutes ago, GalacticFister said:

It's funny because the Vic/Glad/3 Gozanti Sloane lists are my white whale. I can't seem to win against Sloane lists with my super pickle, I lost against Jordan's Sloane list in practice, yours, and then Norms. I feel like an absolute dolt because I seem to not learn how to play against them.

The weak spot is Intel Sweep. 75 points isn't too high of a price when my plan is to nickel and dime your fleet.

I was also expecting your MC80 to barrel down the board after the Demo's fake hard stop.

1 hour ago, Norboats said:

The remedy to generic fighter screens is all ship and msu. Thus, we begin a turn Armada's meta wheel anew.

Did someone mention all-ship MSU?

13 minutes ago, Norboats said:

The weak spot is Intel Sweep. 75 points isn't too high of a price when my plan is to nickel and dime your fleet.

I was also expecting your MC80 to barrel down the board after the Demo's fake hard stop.

Yea it was really a toss-up between choosing sweep and sensor net. In the last game I think the most egregious error was turning for a shot on the Gladiator; this was foolish and greedy considering it would've taken a minimum of two shots to kill and the fact he had first player. There was a flotilla heading towards the corner that I could've easily have cornered and killed in one shot, which would have cemented my lead. That whole game I was getting lucky with my rolls though, Norm was definitely the better player that game.

11 minutes ago, GalacticFister said:

Yea it was really a toss-up between choosing sweep and sensor net. In the last game I think the most egregious error was turning for a shot on the Gladiator; this was foolish and greedy considering it would've taken a minimum of two shots to kill and the fact he had first player. There was a flotilla heading towards the corner that I could've easily have cornered and killed in one shot, which would have cemented my lead. That whole game I was getting lucky with my rolls though, Norm was definitely the better player that game.

I'll be salty about you killing my Howl and Mauler for months. Returning the favor on your GR75 felt so good.

1 minute ago, Norboats said:

I'll be salty about you killing my Howl and Mauler for months. Returning the favor on your GR75 felt so good.

The look on your face when that happened. Casino dice...

/yawn. The mc80 4 flotillas list again?

5 activations. 1 that's actually interesting xD

21 minutes ago, Sybreed said:

/yawn. The mc80 4 flotillas list again?

5 activations. 1 that's actually interesting xD

Amateur. It's 5 floatillas and a Super Pickle.