The only "gotcha" thing I play with is Insidious, and it's not because I'm waiting to spring the trap. The try to kill Demo and forget I have Insidious on the Glad that is at medium range. Very rarely do I get to use Insidious as I want to anyway.

29 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

The only "gotcha" thing I play with is Insidious, and it's not because I'm waiting to spring the trap. The try to kill Demo and forget I have Insidious on the Glad that is at medium range. Very rarely do I get to use Insidious as I want to anyway.

I feel like a tactical surprise like this is different from a game mechanic "gotcha"; I couldn't tell you how I'd define the difference, though.

I have a bit of an argument with your article on tourney prep. You say go to have fun....lol. I'm going to a tourney to do my level best to crush my opposition as fast and efficiently as possible. That, to me, is fun. Wether it's fun for them is irrelevant....lol. I do agree with the rest of your article. Btw, I'm impossible to tilt.

37 minutes ago, Darth Lupine said:

Btw, I'm impossible to tilt.

I've updated the following articles with links:

Nebulon-B Frigate
CR90 Corvette
Assault Frigate MkII
GR-75 Medium Transports

I also added a section to the Assault Frigate article about how it's been unfairly maligned. Take a read below!

Unfairly Maligned
Is the Assault Frigate bad? No. It's received an impression in the greater Armada community that it's not a good ship, for various reasons. Some of that might be the fact that it's quite generalist, some that it's trying to straddle the line between a Small CR90 and an (actual) Large HMC80 . The main issue that I will agree with is that you can't take or even use Leading Shots on it. Leading Shots is one of the main ways that you get efficacy out of your Large ships and their attack batteries, but you can't equip it here. You're entirely at the mercy of how your red dice roll, which is NOT easy to deal with. In a time of chimpanzees I was a monkey TRCs on CR90s , H9s on MC30s , and Defiance/Quad Battery Turrets on an HMC80 , having to accept the dice as you roll them is NOT an easy proposition. You can equip Dual Turbolaser Turrets onto your Assault Frigate, and that's not a bad way of fixing one of your red dice rolls. It costs the same as Veteran Gunners, but it will do more and better work for you.

It does exist in that range (between CR90 and HMC80 ), and I think that is its major issue. No one expects the CR90 to one shot another ship, but a well equipped Raider can. An ISD or an HMC80 will explode any small ship that wanders into close range of it. An Assault Frigate generally DOESN'T have that reputation. It also doesn't last long against Demolisher. I have been losing Assault Frigates to Demolisher attacks for 6 waves now, and it has sucked EVERY TIME. For the same cost as an Assault Frigate, you can get an Admonition MC30 that will put more damage into your opponent's ship faster and harder. Here comes 5 damage from an External Racks front and another 5-6 from my side pew pew pew! The Assault Frigate can't compete with that (realistically, I'm aware red dice have 2 damage sides) alone.

But what the Assault Frigate has that MC30s don't is consistency. Not consistent damage, mind you, but consistent attacks against the same targets. Let's pull up my image from before about how to navigate it.

Take THAT, VSD !

The faded Frigate can hit that VSD in the face, as can its new position. Those side arcs are quite decent-sized and have very good range. You aren't getting 5-6 damage at a time, but 2-3 followed by 2-3 next turn help a LOT. Try not to throw damage at things with significant Evade tokens ( CR90s , Raiders ) and you'll get more work out of it. Or if you DO choose to throw damage at those things, put an Intel Officer on your Frigate to ensure you start spending those FASTER.

The thing about the Assault Frigate is that it loves friends. It would love a second Assault Frigate nearby to help target whatever ship it's throwing red dice at. 3 red dice aren't great, but 2 shots of 3 dice are. Failing that, keep a CR90 or Nebulon B firing on the same ship. The MC30 can go off on its lonesome and get work done, but the Assault Frigate is part of a fleet and it needs the rest of the fleet to help it actually get work done. You can't deploy it by its lonesome and hope it'll win you the game, otherwise you're wasting 72 points plus. Similarly, you can't deploy your HMC80 by itself and expect it to win you the game, so treat the Assault Frigate similarly. Supplement its damage with a friend, and potentially even some fighters, too.

Relatedly, the other thing about the Assault Frigate is that it's the only ship in the Rebellion that can viably take and use Flight Controllers . Hammerheads don't push enough squadrons, LMC80s want Gunnery Team , and MC30s want Ordnance Experts (and don't push enough squadrons, either). If you want to win the squadron battle fast with a solid attack, the Assault Frigate is the way to do it. When you finish off whatever squadrons your opponent brought, you can then start bombing your opponent's ship, making up for your potentially less than stellar red dice attack rolls.

It can still get work done under Ackbar with Gunnery Teams (5 red dice, 5 red dice? SOUNDS GOOD TO ME!), and it does well as a squadron bunker (see above Gallant Haven title) and finisher (never underestimate an X-wing or 3 throwing 5 blue dice at squadrons). It's very flexible in it's build and role, though, which is NICE. I can recommend putting ECM or Gunnery Team on it (like I did above), but really, it's a matter of whatever you WANT to put on it. Whatever else you do to build your Assault Frigate, though, make sure to fill that Weapons Team slot.

On 10/21/2017 at 3:38 AM, Snipafist said:

When in doubt, this routine will apparently make you superhuman .

Man, I got as far as here then paused to watch the show again. . .

6 hours ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:

Man, I got as far as here then paused to watch the show again. . .

Despite some references lately in articles, I want to make it clear that overall I don't watch much anime (a lot of it is... bad), but the good stuff is worth watching. One Punch Man was surprisingly good, despite a premise that seems like it would get dull.

More articles! More squadron related articles! It's time for FIGHTING FLEETS AND FIGHT FIGHTERS!

https://cannotgetyourshipout.blogspot.com/2017/10/squadrons-encyclopedia-8-fighting_24.html

Squadrons Encyclopedia 8: Fighting (Squadron Heavy) Fleets

So, we wind up this latest series of squadron articles and this part of the Squadrons Encyclopedia with our Fighting Fleets article: taking out a squadron-heavy fleet.

"There's too many of them!" Better not be referring to the number of articles in my squadron series

I've spent this series telling you how to move your squadrons, how to kill your opponent's squadrons, how to use Intel to get bombers where they need to be, who to shoot, what to shoot, when to shoot, etc etc etc. I've talked a lot about a lot of topics, but I've mainly focused on:

1) Building a squadron group of your own (Chapters 1 , 2 , 3 , and 4 )
2) Using that squadron group to attack your opponent's squadron group (Chapters 5 and 6 )
3) How to use your squadron group to attack your opponent's ships (Chapter 7 )

If you'll notice there, I never actually address what your SHIPS should be doing (to fight squadrons). I gloss over it occasionally and mention ships in those chapters, but it's not a significant portion of those. The point of those articles are the reasons stated above.

However, as we all know, a squadron heavy fleet isn't just 134 points of squadrons. Toryn Farr , Admiral Chiraneu , Dodonna / Sloane , everything involved with the Yavaris , Quasars with Flight Controllers , Relay squadrons, Boosted Comms , everything in an Imperial Flying Circus of Aces ( Howlrunner / Mauler / Dengar / Soontir ), Gallant Haven , Independence , Adar Tallon , Corrupter ..... I could CONTINUE to go on and on. A squadron heavy fleet has multiple upgrades in its fleet that are designed around getting those squadrons where they need to be and killing what they need to kill. Those upgrades often come at the cost of other upgrades that would keep the ship itself alive and hitting as hard as it could with its own dice (Your Assault Frigate can equip either Gunnery Team or Flight Controllers , but not both). The Yavaris has its standard build, and it's great, but none of those things keep the Yavaris alive or shooting its own anti-ship batteries better. So most of the time, your non-squadron fleet is going to be putting out more damage from its ships that won't be as easily prevented by your opponent.

How do we fight Fighters? Well, let's look at some tips below this completely not-forced in joke!

Never trust Bill Cypher. NEVER.

1) Don't go on tilt when squadrons seem to blow your stuff up.
Yes, your ships are likely going to be putting out more damage than your opponent's ships. HOWEVER, their squadrons are likely going to blow SOMETHING up, barring terrible rolls or bad movement/squadron use on their part. Don't get mad when you lose a ship to squadrons. There was a time when I would take a squadron fleet to a game and my opponent would immediately rage-quit when my squadrons blew up a ship or two of his. As I've said before, no one gets rage-quitty when an ISD kills two of your ships in one turn. Why are you so mad when my B-wings do it? If it makes you sad that my 14 points blew up your 51 points of Raider , well it wasn't JUST my 14 points. It was 2 B-wings (so 28) plus a Yavaris (68 standard build) for a total of 96 points. I spent twice as many points on my end to kill your ship, what's your anger coming from?

The best advice is to reread Eric's tilting article , linked to again HERE .

2) Realize that you need a plan to fight squadrons. Expecting them to NOT show up is a dumb plan that will result in you getting screwed over right when you didn't need to.
Heck, this one nearly bit ME in the butt at our local Store Tournament this year. I had a note in my " Fleet Build " article that I was like "No one will bring squadrons, I'll be fine." What's my second opponent? Squadron heavy.

For some reason, this seems like an appropriate picture of my "brilliance."

Eric's point about asking someone in your meta to play as something you don't normally have/practice against is good. We don't normally have squadron heavy fleets here in Chicago, and I plan on asking several friends to try them out against me and my eventual Regionals plans. You NEED to get some practice against squadron heavy fleets so you can see what to do, how to fight them, and how to counter them, so you don't end up learning about "new" cards the day of the tournament. I've brought Yavaris the last two times I've played my buddy Nick, and he now knows what its capable of. If you don't know what it can do, you might just ignore it to concentrate on the MC30 nearby instead, and that can doom you.

Someone WILL show up to your tournament with a squadron fleet, either coming from out of town or from a different meta or across the country, whatever. Failing to have a plan is planning to fail.

"Until you learn to master your rage-" "My rage will be my master? Is that what you were going to say?"

So, let's talk a few types of squadron fleets
Cracken swarm with 7-8 Rogues
As we discussed in the LFC article , the squadrons usually seen here are trying to kill all of your squadrons quickly so they can go start attacking your ships right after. The "fun" of this fleet is that not only are you fighting an opposing swarm, you're also fighting a squadron fleet.

Rebel 2+3
3 flotillas and the remaining 2 ships are some combination of MC30 , Assault Frigate , Yavaris , or Pelta . This list is trying to outlast you; killing 3 flotillas in a game is not necessarily an easy proposition, and it's not any easier when multiple squadrons are attacking your ships each turn. The benefit of this build is that if I can keep at least one flotilla alive and most of my squadrons, provided I kill enough of your ships I can pull out a 4-7 or even 5-6 loss on my end. Still a loss, but I also got some decent points out of it.

Sloane Aces
Similar to the Cracken Swarm above, the squadrons are attempting to end your squadrons as fast as possible (A Flight Controllers -equipped Quasar is commonly seen here) so that way her squadrons can then start pinging your ships and hopefully spending your defense tokens.

They're all going for different things, but thanks to the Rhymer nerf, everything has to get into close range in order to hit your ships. Which means you can flak them.

3) Flak. Flak hard. Flak everyone.

Gary Oldman understands

Squadron lists are based around doing substantial damage to you from their squadrons. Option one is to kill those squadrons, and you kill their ability to wage war. How do you kill squadrons?

Sarcasm is always helpful

So weird, all ships have this image printed on their card in various colors! Use it. I've seen players NOT flak the opponent's fighters/not flak them substantially enough such that the fighters just stomp the opponent's ships and then you have a big sad. It may not seem like much, given that you might only do one damage to a Y-wing , but when you combine it with your own squadrons and multiple ships flakking , you CAN take them out. I've heard people use the excuse that they had to throw damage at my ship instead of flakking my fighters, and thanks to defense token mitigation, my ship took minimal damage and my fighters remain unharmed.

The alternative option:

4) Go for the carriers.
You can either flak their squadrons and use your own squadrons to counter theirs, hitting them with as many dice as you can, making the carriers unable to push anything. The carriers then become dependent on their OWN ability to do damage to your ships, which, as previously stated, is generally bad. The other option, if you're fast enough, is to have your ships streak across the field, trying to hit their carriers FAST before they can get more than one turn of squadron pushing off. This option usually involves speed 3 and 4 ships running across the board. You may lose a ship or two, but if you can trade one of your ships for 2-3 of theirs, then it's a matter of mopping up quickly after that and getting the heck out of dodge. MC30s with H9s can make for some sad times for flotillas, Peltas , and Quasars .

The idea behind this plan is that by going so fast, you've both outstripped my squadron's ability to hit you and my ability to command them to come back and hit you next turn. If I push my B-wings out of range of command turn X in order to hit your ships, you move away and hit my carriers back turn X+1 in close range. I can't get my squadrons back to attack you fast enough before my carriers explode, leaving my squadrons STILL stranded in the middle of nowhere.

"I'm all alone, all by myself. There's no one here besides me."

However, recognize that a smart carrier player is going to stay in the back as much as possible. If you DO go hard for the carriers, you need to realize that you could be opening yourself up to get shot by squadrons on the way in (and possibly after you move closer to attack me). It doesn't help you to just throw everything forward to get me NEXT turn if I spend THIS one blowing your ship apart. Everything with Boosted Comms is going to be staying as far away from you as possible. With that caveat said, you need to realize what your ship is capable of both surviving and getting to. Your VSD can throw dice at me at long range, but it's not going to be able to quickly get into close range with my Yavaris , so I'll be Evading dice you throw. Similarly, your LMC80 can get all up in my grill turn 1 or 2 and wreck flotilla lives, but it's also REALLY not happy to have B-wings shooting it in the face for more than one turn (it will explode, I can promise having both done it and having had it done to me).

I can't tell you what the right answer is, for how fast to move and where to get to and all. Evaluate your ships and their speed capabilities to determine whether you should be attacking my squadrons or my carriers with your ships (potentially one this turn, one the next?). Have a plan for what you're going to do.

5) Related to THAT, recognize the threat.
Does Yavaris have 3 B-wings , Luke , Nym , and Jan Ors nearby? Try not to wander your ship anywhere within range 1 of that, because the Yavaris will just push them with Fighter Coordination Team and then attack you twice. Is the threat multiple Y-wings or TIE bombers getting pushed from a Expanded Hangar Bays Pelta / Quasar ? Figure out how you're going to destroy that before it can start significantly killing your ships.

Squadrons have the benefit that they can go any direction they want when they're activated, but you can measure their range of movement at any time. You can see WHERE that blob of B-wings is going to end up, and try to plan for them in a turn or two (or next turn, if you need to).

Squadrons will ruin your life if you let them. Yavaris activated B-wings WILL end your main ship if you focus on other things and ignore them to let them attack your ship. You can be a Motti ISD with Reinforced Blast Doors , but 17 health will still drop with enough proton torpedoes into it.

Hit/Crit for Structural, Hit/Crit for Structural, why didn't you use your Contain token again?

6) Bring a squadron presence of your own
There ARE players and builds that know how to run without squadrons. This article is for people who are either just starting out slash have not had substantial experience playing against a squadron heavy fleet. If you are feeling adventurous and ever wish to try it, I can point you towards builds on the forums, but I'm not going to recommend them to you. As I said above, you'll need to have a plan for dealing with a squadron heavy fleet, and the answer probably involves going for their carriers QUICKLY. You're likely going to lose some ships if you don't know what you're doing, and you may potentially get stomped quickly and repeatedly until you figure out the way to handle squadron lists without squadrons of your own. I have no intention of writing an article about how to play that way; it's a skew list that you need to learn how to play yourself. I personally have no desire to try it out....again...(I went 1-1 at Adepticon with it last year). 4 TIEs cost 32 points, Tycho and Shara are 33. What upgrades/build do you NEED that you can't cram one of those into your list?

However! If you bring a squadron presence of your own, I can point you towards several other articles ( Chapters 2 / Imp 2 , 3 , and 5 , for instance) I have written in order to detail HOW to handle heavy squadron groups. When crafting your Small Fighter Coverage group, add in parts to it that will handle enemy squadrons more than those that do damage to ships; Mauler Mithel is better than Rhymer , Shara is better than Norra , you know what I mean?

I hate just referencing what I've written before, but the longer answer for how to create and use those squadron groups is in those linked articles.

7) Are there upgrades you can add to your ships that help against squadrons?
The answer is technically yes, but in reality not really. Let's hit a few of the most well-known.

Admiral Sloane is a way of countering a heavy squadron fleet.... with her own heavy squadron fleet. General Rieekan will let you keep one thing the squadrons kill alive for a turn, but that also forces you into list/commander choices. Those commanders have their upsides and downsides, and it's dumb of me to say that the best way to counter a squadron list is to bring a specific commander/list designed to fight a squadron list.... when there are several other fleet types commonly seen!

So upgrades though? Point Defense Reroute remains bad. Quad Laser Turrets MIGHT be workable IF you have Toryn Farr nearby and bring your own squadron presence to supplement your counter-1. Maybe. Potentially. It "doesn't work" against Rhymer at close range but not range 1, but my argument against that is that it's not easy to fit bombers into that specific zone where they are NOT in range 1 but ARE in close so they can bomb your ship in the same hull zone.

I still question its use, but there IS an argument you could make for it (not a GOOD one, mind you). If you're feeling crazy, Point-Defense Reroute and Quad Laser Turrets can BOTH go an ISD-I . I don't know what the rest of your list is, and you can't fit Boarding Troopers in there (so no Avenger ), but it IS an option (not a good one, mind you). You can't just count on that to solve all your squadron problems, mind you, but I don't think QLT is actually as bad as we've all attributed it to be. Eric's article states that bringing more and better fighters that you command is the smarter option. And I agree. But if you wanted to try something out to keep your Large ship alive against squadrons? It's worth a game or two, I suppose, if you have 5 points to spare and nothing to do with them.

Advanced Projectors is good against squadrons, as it forces them to take out ALL your shields before you die. The counter to it is the fact that it is nearly USELESS against XI7s and takes up the slot ECM normally sits in. If an ISD hits you and locks down your Brace token with an Accuracy, Advanced Projectors HELPS, mind you, but you still have to eat the full damage. And potentially explode. So, it's not seen often, but it does still work against squadron heavy fleets.

My thoughts on Cluster Bombs are well known (it is bad, do not use it). I know people have had SOME success with it, but I have no major interest in trying it out, personally. As my old math textbooks would say, "the rest of the proof is left as an exercise to the reader."

How Konstantine wins games

Agent Kallus targets named squadrons ( Gold , Saber , Dagger , Gamma , Shara Bey , or Soontir Fel , for example) for an extra dice, but doesn't help you against regular squadrons. So regular B-wings are still hitting your ship and hurting it badly. He can get work done, especially against Rieekan Ace Hole lists, but it's up to you if that's important.

Damage Control Officer CAN turn off Norra's crit ability, if you're facing a lot of Rebel squadrons. However, unless she's on an Interdictor or the MC-75, you've only got 2 uses of the Contain token before they start wiping shields anyway. She also doesn't help stop the squadrons from bombing you, she just makes it so you take less damage from them. She's more useful against APTs and ACMs , but she IS worth pointing out.

Ruthless Strategists actually works better than you would think, especially on a Quasar . If you're willing to trade your squadron's health for more damage to my squadrons (and anything with 5-6 health should make that trade), it's a GREAT upgrade, and it can't be Scattered away. They just eat the damage. If you have the open Weapons Team slot....

In my opinion though, the best upgrade you can add to your fleet? An actual squadron presence of your own to defend against your opponent's squadrons. Make sure, of course, that you actually push and activate your squadrons, otherwise you just made a poor speed bump that gives your opponent more points. It's that time again, let's quote the First Law!

I need to read I, Robot at some point. Ah, all that time I don't have!

Squadrons activated by squadron commands > Rogue squadrons > Unactivated regular squadrons

I've spent some time every post I write in this series letting you know you need to push your squadrons or use Rogues. I'm not going to stop until people stop throwing TIEs into a squadron blob and then quit commanding them after that. Eric will also help me yell at you for disobeying his commandments.

Eric'll beat you with those stone tablets until you start to listen, I've seen him do it!

8) Know when to RUN
So you've killed a few of your opponent's ships, and you've lost some yourself. Luckily, you've got the upper hand on points right now. It's at this point that you need to look at what you have left and what your opponent has left. Can you LEGITIMATELY kill it before the game ends on turn 6? If not, get out, run, go long, speed up, RUN AWAY. Nothing wrong with admitting you've won and blasting off to take your win and go. You may not get the MOST tournament points, but you also won't LOSE much more.

This isn't me saying "Kill one thing and run" so much as me saying "Unless you can kill all his ships, your opponent will get points for keeping his living squadrons alive." Tournaments are usually around 3 rounds, and if you can get some good scores in your other 2 rounds, you don't need a 10-1 against your squadron opponent. You just want a win, which means killing more of his stuff than he can kill of yours. If that requires you to run some of your stuff away after it killed a ship or two, well a win is a win.

Other than that, I can't really tell you specifics. If you brought MC30s or Gladiators , get in close like black dice ships like to do. If you have red dice and Ackbar , long range bombs. You should by now know how to use your list and what you can do with it against other ships. As I said above, your opponent's squadron list won't have many upgrades built around helping the ships damage you better, so you don't necessarily need to fear their dice as much. The Quasar or Yavaris's strength is in its fighter coverage, not its own dice. Respect it, and what it can do (Red dice DO have double hits on them!) but don't fear THAT aspect of it as much as the Salvation or an ISD , for example.

Oh, full art Neb, you must be mine. I needs you so badly...

9) Good objective choice
Oftentimes, it's hard for fighter lists to have a substantial bid. I COULD have a 7 point bid with my fleet, but why not upgrade an X-wing into Luke Skywalker or a B-wing into Nym or add in a Z95 ? You may see a list with a 4-point bid if it's the Good Ol' Rieekan Ace Hole list, but they likely may have nothing. Which might mean you go first! Select a good objective that you CAN play, which is the nice way of saying "Don't pick Fighter Ambush if you have Shara and Tycho only" as you'll have one heck of a bad time. Don't choose Precision Strike if you've built your black dice crits around ACMs , for example. Bring good objectives of your own that might make things difficult for your opponent slash realize that squadron lists might see your objective choices and find the easy out that you didn't expect (take that into consideration when choosing them BTW). You can't always expect to go first, so think things through, you'll be alright.

And with that, we conclude this installment. If there's anything you have questions on, as always, please let me know.

15 hours ago, Snipafist said:

Despite some references lately in articles, I want to make it clear that overall I don't watch much anime (a lot of it is... bad), but the good stuff is worth watching. One Punch Man was surprisingly good, despite a premise that seems like it would get dull.

I watch far less of it than my siblings and concur with this point. What I'm waiting for out of you two is a reference to the (hilariously underappreciated) Kung Fu Panda movies. If Jack Black isn't your thing, well that's a crying shame, because these movies are great. (As is Gary Oldman as a villainous peacock in KFP 2.) On the anime note, overly simplistic as I've come to realize it can be as an adult, I hold a dear place in my heart for Steamboy (which is also **** hard to find on the Internet for free), multiple flagrant historical misplays notwithstanding.

Just now, GiledPallaeon said:

I watch far less of it than my siblings and concur with this point. What I'm waiting for out of you two is a reference to the (hilariously underappreciated) Kung Fu Panda movies. If Jack Black isn't your thing, well that's a crying shame, because these movies are great. (As is Gary Oldman as a villainous peacock in KFP 2.) On the anime note, overly simplistic as I've come to realize it can be as an adult, I hold a dear place in my heart for Steamboy (which is also **** hard to find on the Internet for free), multiple flagrant historical misplays notwithstanding.

I did JUST make a Gary Oldman joke 2 minutes ago, haha. And i enjoyed the Kung Fu Panda movies, but not necessarily enough to reference them (I barely remember 2 for some reason, but I liked 1 and 3). Nothing against them, just that my humor is more foundational from Mel Brooks, Muppets, and 80s/90s movies.

The Mel Brooks and Muppets does explain the inordinate amount of puns, though.

Just now, geek19 said:

I did JUST make a Gary Oldman joke 2 minutes ago, haha. And i enjoyed the Kung Fu Panda movies, but not necessarily enough to reference them (I barely remember 2 for some reason, but I liked 1 and 3). Nothing against them, just that my humor is more foundational from Mel Brooks, Muppets, and 80s/90s movies.

The Mel Brooks and Muppets does explain the inordinate amount of puns, though.

You posted as I was posting. I think you should rewatch 2, but that's a personal opinion, and it's mostly founded on that I think 2's villain is easily the best (worst?) of the lot. I can also see the Muppets now; I too have seen almost every episode of the original run.

Regarding fighting squadrons, I have two notes. First, Kallus works on QLTs, so if you have 8 points and the appropriate slots, it can be funny. Additionally, and more majorly, you skipped a ship, specifically the Raider . If there's any ship in this game that's totally fine with flakking all game (provided it has first player/squad cover), it's the Raider , and when those Flechettes go off, the results are devastating. They're hard as all getout to pull off, and they're decently reliant on first player, but I've had, and I know I'm not alone in, significant success using them as the brute firepower in solving the anti-squadron problem. The trick of course is finding the durability for them/a way around how few bomber attacks it takes to blow them to ****.

5 minutes ago, GiledPallaeon said:

You posted as I was posting. I think you should rewatch 2, but that's a personal opinion, and it's mostly founded on that I think 2's villain is easily the best (worst?) of the lot. I can also see the Muppets now; I too have seen almost every episode of the original run.

Regarding fighting squadrons, I have two notes. First, Kallus works on QLTs, so if you have 8 points and the appropriate slots, it can be funny. Additionally, and more majorly, you skipped a ship, specifically the Raider . If there's any ship in this game that's totally fine with flakking all game (provided it has first player/squad cover), it's the Raider , and when those Flechettes go off, the results are devastating. They're hard as all getout to pull off, and they're decently reliant on first player, but I've had, and I know I'm not alone in, significant success using them as the brute firepower in solving the anti-squadron problem. The trick of course is finding the durability for them/a way around how few bomber attacks it takes to blow them to ****.

I'll add the Kallus thing into the QLT plan tomorrow, but you're right, it is funny. Combo it with Leading Shots and you sorta have a weird answer to fighting squadrons. Not sure it's the RIGHT answer, but it is AN answer.

And yeah, i didnt mention the Raider. I was more trying for a generalist approach (slash i only Rebel, haha, so i forgot it existed for other players to take, since i CAN'T), but it might be worth pointing out, yeah. Eric womped my Regionals fleet in Milwaukee with Flechette Raiders, so I'm trying not to relive THAT nightmare again, but you're right in that it IS worth mentioning, as would be the Assault Frigate A/Escort Neb (anything with 2 flak dice that can be buffed by Toryn). Again, I can add that part in tomorrow.

1 minute ago, geek19 said:

I'll add the Kallus thing into the QLT plan tomorrow, but you're right, it is funny. Combo it with Leading Shots and you sorta have a weird answer to fighting squadrons. Not sure it's the RIGHT answer, but it is AN answer.

And yeah, i didnt mention the Raider. I was more trying for a generalist approach (slash i only Rebel, haha, so i forgot it existed for other players to take, since i CAN'T), but it might be worth pointing out, yeah. Eric womped my Regionals fleet in Milwaukee with Flechette Raiders, so I'm trying not to relive THAT nightmare again, but you're right in that it IS worth mentioning, as would be the Assault Frigate A/Escort Neb (anything with 2 flak dice that can be buffed by Toryn). Again, I can add that part in tomorrow.

The Rebel dual blues with Toryn are effectively the Rebel answer to FT Raider s in damage output. You're not quite as consistent as dual black OE, but you get a lot more targets (and often more shots on said targets as they move through the danger zone) in exchange. It was mentioned more than once to me by local pilots of variants on the Acehole theme that they brought AF2-As just for the improved ASq firepower to help get the bombers through to the target. And it's been cited as a boon to the fact only one of the two Neb variants is worth putting Yavaris on.

22 hours ago, GiledPallaeon said:

The Rebel dual blues with Toryn are effectively the Rebel answer to FT Raider s in damage output. You're not quite as consistent as dual black OE, but you get a lot more targets (and often more shots on said targets as they move through the danger zone) in exchange. It was mentioned more than once to me by local pilots of variants on the Acehole theme that they brought AF2-As just for the improved ASq firepower to help get the bombers through to the target. And it's been cited as a boon to the fact only one of the two Neb variants is worth putting Yavaris on.

Updated and added in some of those examples. I also made a dumb Raiders pun that I'm more proud of then I probably should be, haha.

Inspired by @Green Knight 's original comment in that other thread I started, let's do this:

DOES YAVARIS NEED A NERF?

I'm just pasting the link here because there's bound to be disagreements and anger, as much as I don't want it. But this is an article I've been thinking about for a few days, and it's time to write my thoughts down. Hit the link for the reading, as I name drop 4-5 different people on this forum.

39 minutes ago, geek19 said:

Inspired by @Green Knight 's original comment in that other thread I started, let's do this:

DOES YAVARIS NEED A NERF?

I'm just pasting the link here because there's bound to be disagreements and anger, as much as I don't want it. But this is an article I've been thinking about for a few days, and it's time to write my thoughts down. Hit the link for the reading, as I name drop 4-5 different people on this forum.

Wrapping up with my favorite Star Wars picture--nice.

Personally, I don't really think Yavaris needs an errata. It's not nearly sufficiently overrepresented to warrant such a heavy handed response. That said, I could see a soft nerf that wouldn't require any errata: just FAQ-rule a broad interpretation of the movement restriction. If it has moved during this ship activation, it can't double tap. I'm not saying it reads that way currently, but plenty of people have thought it did on a naive reading of the text. It's not an outrageous reinterpretation, and dialing back the threat range would do a lot to hamper it.

That said, I much prefer the approach of introducing alternatives. Independence had potential, but has been superseded, and was really too expensive for most carrier lists. RBD Peltas are great, but they really fill GH's bomber-protection/delivery role more than the offense-amplification role of Yavaris.

I could maybe see a title that was Flight Controllers for battery armament, but for bombers... or maybe even exclusively for non-bombers, depending on platform and cost (that would've been a great Pelta title to incentivize A-wing+Pelta builds).

Whatever it is, it's going to have to apply to squadrons that that ship activates, not just be an aoe improvement, otherwise it's just the next "X" in "Yavaris+X."

16 minutes ago, Ardaedhel said:

Wrapping up with my favorite Star Wars picture--nice.

Personally, I don't really think Yavaris needs an errata. It's not nearly sufficiently overrepresented to warrant such a heavy handed response. That said, I could see a soft nerf that wouldn't require any errata: just FAQ-rule a broad interpretation of the movement restriction. If it has moved during this ship activation, it can't double tap. I'm not saying it reads that way currently, but plenty of people have thought it did on a naive reading of the text. It's not an outrageous reinterpretation, and dialing back the threat range would do a lot to hamper it.

That said, I much prefer the approach of introducing alternatives. Independence had potential, but has been superseded, and was really too expensive for most carrier lists. RBD Peltas are great, but they really fill GH's bomber-protection/delivery role more than the offense-amplification role of Yavaris.

I could maybe see a title that was Flight Controllers for battery armament, but for bombers... or maybe even exclusively for non-bombers, depending on platform and cost (that would've been a great Pelta title to incentivize A-wing+Pelta builds).

Whatever it is, it's going to have to apply to squadrons that that ship activates, not just be an aoe improvement, otherwise it's just the next "X" in "Yavaris+X."

I've blathered at length about how I'd love to see extra titles for things, making that the next Corellian Conflict and all (give me more MC30 titles, legit CR90 ones (my dumb Tantive IV plans excepted), make a VSD title that's worth it, etc). I'd be down for something that was like flight controllers for non-bombers... but then you go down the rabbit hole of Toryn plus X and blah blah blah. For all my wave I complaining about how Imp squadrons were more synergistic, it's certainly not that way NOW.

RLB Peltas are.... ships. My problem with them is that they work when your opponent doesn't know about them. "This combo works when my opponent is dumb" isn't a good combo in my mind. With Raddus, I can see RLB working, but i don't know if I personally am going to try it. I'm already going to be points and activation starved by bringing 2 large ships, i'm not sure i want to try commanding B-wings with them all.

As for Independence, I do miss it being viable. I rocked it pretty well my first Adepticon. With Garm it might still be worth considering, actually, but between Dodonna plans, crazy Leia ones with 2 Nebulons, and insane Mon Mothma ones (who needs a flotilla? NOT ME!), I'll likely get to Garm sometime when Wave 8 is announced. And of course, there's the super insane Raddus dropping an Independence RLB in from Hyperspace... but I don't know if even I'm THAT crazy.

If Yavaris needs a nerf the only thing I find reasonable is to say the FCT counts as a move even with Flight commander and thus cant double tap, I dont feel like it needs a nerf I have played againts Yavaris time and time again and its farily easy to play against once you get the hang of it, and i'm not seeing to many Yavaris in my local meta anymore.

51 minutes ago, geek19 said:

And of course, there's the super insane Raddus dropping an Independence RLB in from Hyperspace... but I don't know if even I'm THAT crazy.

Why bother with Indy in that?

9 minutes ago, Ardaedhel said:

Why bother with Indy in that?

To move them AFTER you blow up the ISD. Honestly, it's not a build I would do (i'd rather use an LMC80), but if someone wanted to, I'll address it in my eventual Raddus article. Unrelated to all that, I'm REALLY looking forward to writing it, as I have an amazingly goofy way I plan of writing THAT article. But, that's for a wave 7 release.