I didn't contribute anything for over a week because I was writing this . Let's talk about swarm/MSU fleets and how to deal with them!
Also I was playing far too much Stellaris.
Edit: I decided not to post the whole article here because it's rather long. I like doing that most of the time, but it would've taken up way too much space.
3 minutes ago, Snipafist said:I didn't contribute anything for over a week because I was writing this . Let's talk about swarm/MSU fleets and how to deal with them!
Also I was playing far too much Stellaris.
An Aquabats song?
I think I love you.
2 minutes ago, Ardaedhel said:An Aquabats song?
I think I love you.
If the typical enemy fleets have 5 activations, isn't the ideal msu number 7?
That way you can keep back TWO hitters, and deny the enemy good forking options while keeping maximum flexibility.
It also retains last/first against 6 ship builds.
Since this is 'anti-msu' one must prepare for that eventuality
Great article btw. Really great.
If I wanted to be needlessly critical I'd say it was a bit light in how to use squadrons vs msu. Be they forward striking, bomber screens or rogues.
44 minutes ago, Green Knight said:If the typical enemy fleets have 5 activations, isn't the ideal msu number 7?
I mean it absolutely helps, but it depends on the meta. So long as you're counting on having one or more activations than most other fleets, I'd qualify it as a swarm/MSU archetype to some degree.
QuoteIf I wanted to be needlessly critical I'd say it was a bit light in how to use squadrons vs msu. Be they forward striking, bomber screens or rogues.
That's fair. I was worried about it being long enough already and with @geek19 having written quite a pile of how-to squadron articles previously, I figured I could touch on it lightly and move on. But the criticism in that regard is fair.
14 minutes ago, Snipafist said:I mean it absolutely helps, but it depends on the meta. So long as you're counting on having one or more activations than most other fleets, I'd qualify it as a swarm/MSU archetype to some degree.
That's fair. I was worried about it being long enough already and with @geek19 having written quite a pile of how-to squadron articles previously, I figured I could touch on it lightly and move on. But the criticism in that regard is fair.
To be fair, most of my squadron articles are about applying my squadron stuff towards fighting other squadrons. Given that I have my Fighting Squadrons article to write, writing the flip side of "how to actually kill with squadrons" is worth exploring too.
Just now, geek19 said:To be fair, most of my squadron articles are about applying my squadron stuff towards fighting other squadrons. Given that I have my Fighting Squadrons article to write, writing the flip side of "how to actually kill with squadrons" is worth exploring too.
I mean if you want to write more on "how to apply bombers to problems," I certainly won't stop you, haha. It's definitely covered a bit in the "how to LFC" article already.
Luckily for you the "how to handle squadrons with other squadrons" part for your next "how to handle X" article has already been written (by you), so you get to skip straight to how to integrate that into a fleet and use flak support, etc.
Sato article updated! How many ways can I say "Get your opponent to move close to you!"? Read it and find out!
http://cannotgetyourshipout.blogspot.com/2017/06/know-your-enemycommanders-corner-jun.html
You CAN turn dice blue for anti flotilla.
Hwks. Where are your hwks?
15 hours ago, Snipafist said:I didn't contribute anything for over a week because I was writing this . Let's talk about swarm/MSU fleets and how to deal with them!
Also I was playing far too much Stellaris.
Edit: I decided not to post the whole article here because it's rather long. I like doing that most of the time, but it would've taken up way too much space.
In the first paragraph, you say swarm fleets are not 'uneatable'.
In the first line of the second paragraph describing how swarms work, you are missing an 'f' in 'off'
Edited by GhostofNobodyInParticular3 hours ago, Ginkapo said:You CAN turn dice blue for anti flotilla.
Hwks. Where are your hwks?
I was writing/updating it yesterday and I realized the blue dice thing for flotillas and said eh, people will realize. I'll edit it tonight after work for that. And I'll add the Hwks in too, then.
1 hour ago, geek19 said:I was writing/updating it yesterday and I realized the blue dice thing for flotillas and said eh, people will realize. I'll edit it tonight after work for that. And I'll add the Hwks in too, then.
You also get blue dice crits. But overload pulse mon karren is really expensive.
21 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:You also get blue dice crits. But overload pulse mon karren is really expensive.
Eh, Overload Pulse isn't good though. SW7 Mon Karren might be worth it though.
I bet you could have guessed what I'm going to say.
Sato is **** if you're trying to proc crits as your means of winning. You're basically hoping they don't have Evades, and by doing so, adding a handicap to your list. More importantly, you can't run a lot of crit effects and run squads unless you take HHs, in which case you don't have the dice to trigger crits in any meaningful way. 1-2 black dice and hoping you'll get a crit? No way.
Sato should be used to make your dice more consistent and allow flexibility in your attacks. I like Paragon and OE with Sato because it let's my main ship hit very, very hard. It's just raw damage. Follow up with some supporting shots from a Scout HH with RS, who is there to kill squads, it turns unreliable red dice into reliable black dice. And CR90As also enjoy Sato. By cutting TRC, I save 7/14 points which can go back into my squads. I'm not losing a ton of efficiency because I have a higher chance to roll 2 damage.
I'm still not sold on Sato with any other build except squad MSU. The more dice you can change, the move value you will get from him.
1 minute ago, Undeadguy said:I bet you could have guessed what I'm going to say.
Sato is **** if you're trying to proc crits as your means of winning. You're basically hoping they don't have Evades, and by doing so, adding a handicap to your list. More importantly, you can't run a lot of crit effects and run squads unless you take HHs, in which case you don't have the dice to trigger crits in any meaningful way. 1-2 black dice and hoping you'll get a crit? No way.
Sato should be used to make your dice more consistent and allow flexibility in your attacks. I like Paragon and OE with Sato because it let's my main ship hit very, very hard. It's just raw damage. Follow up with some supporting shots from a Scout HH with RS, who is there to kill squads, it turns unreliable red dice into reliable black dice. And CR90As also enjoy Sato. By cutting TRC, I save 7/14 points which can go back into my squads. I'm not losing a ton of efficiency because I have a higher chance to roll 2 damage.
I'm still not sold on Sato with any other build except squad MSU. The more dice you can change, the move value you will get from him.
I covered a lot of the crit to win plan in there, I feel. I can expand on it, but I said a lot of stuff about getting them closer so Evades stop working. I ran CR90s at Adepticon last year and I was not sold on them naked under Sato. Their inability to reroll is crippling in some circumstances.
There's an undercurrent to the article that also somewhat comes down to "he's a flying circus you need to make work." Personally, I've had some fun games with him, but not enough for me to spend weeks of my life developing him into my tournament commander. I'd rather spend that time improving my Leia list, if I'm playing high MSU with hammerheads.
The article is more of a "you want to try him? Do this" than anything. Will I revisit him in wave 7? Maybe, but I have dumb Raddus lists to try. Will I revisit him before I care about trying Cracken again? Most definitely. But that's because I don't care about playing Cracken more than anything. I don't think he's a BAD commander like @Snipafist and Tagge/Konstantine, I just have like four other lists I'd rather play instead of him.
2 hours ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:In the first paragraph, you say swarm fleets are not 'uneatable'.
In the first line of the second paragraph describing how swarms work, you are missing an 'f' in 'off'
Good catch on the first one, that's been fixed.
Second one is "consisting of," where it should be "of" and not "off."
8 minutes ago, Snipafist said:Good catch on the first one, that's been fixed.
Second one is "consisting of," where it should be "of" and not "off."
No, I mean here: ' pull of a "last+first'
Just now, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:No, I mean here: ' pull of a "last+first'
Aha, I misunderstood you. That's also been fixed. Thanks!
38 minutes ago, geek19 said:I covered a lot of the crit to win plan in there, I feel. I can expand on it, but I said a lot of stuff about getting them closer so Evades stop working. I ran CR90s at Adepticon last year and I was not sold on them naked under Sato. Their inability to reroll is crippling in some circumstances.
There's an undercurrent to the article that also somewhat comes down to "he's a flying circus you need to make work." Personally, I've had some fun games with him, but not enough for me to spend weeks of my life developing him into my tournament commander. I'd rather spend that time improving my Leia list, if I'm playing high MSU with hammerheads.
The article is more of a "you want to try him? Do this" than anything. Will I revisit him in wave 7? Maybe, but I have dumb Raddus lists to try. Will I revisit him before I care about trying Cracken again? Most definitely. But that's because I don't care about playing Cracken more than anything. I don't think he's a BAD commander like @Snipafist and Tagge/Konstantine, I just have like four other lists I'd rather play instead of him.
I want to expand a bit so I'm not poo-pooing all over you. I had a meeting so I had to cut my rant short.
If you're good at running ER HH, taking APT HH with Sato is a good choice. It's not for the long range crit aspect, but more about the "I'm familiar with this ship and Sato let's it hit harder" game play. I'm pretty sure that is Gink's play with his version of Sato with 2 ACM MC30s. Sure, you can use ACM at long range, but that is not the purpose of the list. That's not your strategy to win. Rather, you are converting your non-black dice to black so you are now throwing 8 blacks with a double arc. The idea with Sato is more reliable and more powerful dice. Crit effects just add to the value.
I don't like running HH because their side arc is medium or close, which is why I prefer the CR90. I don't always have to run straight at my target because my side arc is long range. Literally the only reason I'd take a naked CR90 over a HH.
Because of the skill required to run Sato, I'd consider him to be an experienced player commander. Your first instinct is to take long range crit effects with him, which is the fastest way to disappointment, but also one of the most satisfying attacks you'll have with Sato.
Otherwise, good article.
That's a fair assessment of the use of why CR90s. I will admit that I based some of my strategy off of @Ginkapo and his plan for running his list. The main thing I think with regards to everything about him is that you need to realize that a large portion of the ships in game have Evades. Whatever you throw out, you can't count on the crits unless you overwhelm your opponent or you're fighting a Thrawn 3 ISD fleet. Which has its own issues of course.
My own personal issue is that I like squadrons and consistent squadron damage too much, so it then becomes a matter of "why didn't you (John, personally) just do this better with Dodonna?" Sato is very enjoyable (APT crits at red range on LMC80S are quite fun) but it's not the most enjoyable for ME (I can stop chasing Norra crits with b wings any time, I'm not addicted you are).
And thanks. I'll likely include your and ginks advice in there when I finish the edits tonight, considering Ive run him based on your guys' recommendation every time I DO run him.
On 10/2/2017 at 3:10 PM, Snipafist said:
Also I was playing far too much Stellaris.
Mmmm stellaris.
1 hour ago, chr335 said:Mmmm stellaris.
My engineering lizardmen and their droid friends are trying to peacefully explore the galaxy but I seem to be surrounded by authoritarian slaving jerkwads so there's been a lot of wars declared against me (which I end up winning). Leave me alone, jerkfaces!
Anyways, relevant to the blog itself,
I updated the Imperial starter fleet article to include an option for going squadron heavy
.
With the release of the Quasar, some new cost-effective options are now available for the Empire and I know some folks want to go squadron-heavier right out of the gate. With that said, I added an option #2 to the
Imperial starter fleet article
, which is copy-pasted below:
There is a second option if you'd prefer to start off more squadron-heavy and that requires buying:
Which comes out to $220. The fleet build is below.
Faction:
Galactic Empire
Points:
399/400
Commander:
Moff Jerjerrod
Assault Objective:
Most Wanted
Defense Objective:
Contested Outpost
Navigation Objective:
Superior Positions
[ flagship ]
Victory II-Class Star Destroyer
(85 points)
- Moff Jerjerrod ( 23 points)
- Minister Tua ( 2 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Disposable Capacitors ( 3 points)
- Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points)
- Quad Battery Turrets ( 5 points)
=
132
total ship cost
Gozanti-class Cruisers
(23 points)
- Comms Net ( 2 points)
=
25
total ship cost
Quasar Fire I-class Cruiser-Carrier
(54 points)
-
Pursuant
( 2 points)
- Wulff Yularen ( 7 points)
- Expanded Hangar Bay ( 5 points)
=
68
total ship cost
Arquitens-class Light Cruiser
(54 points)
- Dual Turbolaser Turrets ( 5 points)
=
59
total ship cost
1
"Mauler" Mithel
( 15 points)
4
TIE Fighter Squadrons
( 32 points)
1
Morna Kee
( 27 points)
1
Colonel Jendon
( 20 points)
1
Maarek Steele
( 21 points)
Card view
link
I still went with Jerry, but there is a free point there if you'd prefer to try out Sloane. The main difference is we dropped the black dice ships in favor of a
Quasar
and better squadron coverage and some Disposable Capacitors for the VSD-II (from the Quasar box). The main goal of this fleet is longer-ranged dice salvos backed up with some bomber damage.
Mauler Mithel
and the TIE Fighters endeavor to mop up most enemy squadrons while
Jendon
,
Morna Kee
, and
Maarek
try to gang up on enemy ships. If necessary, they can also beat up on enemy squadrons and do pretty well there, too.
Early game try to get the Quasar a squadron and navigate token so Wulff can keep refreshing one of those for you. You can activate 6 squadrons in one go with a squadron dial, Wulff's infinite squadron token, and the Expanded Hangar Bays, so try to do that if possible.
This is a really cool budget starter list!
On 10/4/2017 at 9:48 AM, Snipafist said:Mauler Mithel and the TIE Fighters endeavor to mop up most enemy squadrons while Jendon , Morna Kee , and Maarek try to gang up on enemy ships. If necessary, they can also beat up on enemy squadrons and do pretty well there, too.
I really like this fleet, it's a great starter idea, can I ask why you chose Mauler over Howlrunner? With no means to move Mauler and howlrunner being only 1 point more serving to grant 4 extra blue dice it seemed a better fit in my mind. I'm just curious if I'm missing some synergy here. lol
3 minutes ago, Darth Sanguis said:I really like this fleet, it's a great starter idea, can I ask why you chose Mauler over Howlrunner? With no means to move Mauler and howlrunner being only 1 point more serving to grant 4 extra blue dice it seemed a better fit in my mind. I'm just curious if I'm missing some synergy here. lol
Its less synergy, its more guarantee.
4 extra Blue dice on an alpha is approx 3 damage with Swarm being involved on that reroll.
If Mauler hits 3 models once , he's matched that.
Of course, Howlrunner has the potential to escalate beyond that... But careful maneuver of Mauler (and killing targets) does the same for him.
Its just, Roll the Dice vs Get the damage, really.