Let me put this another way, by measuring from Dengar to the Decimator, from closest point to closest point, did he not also, by doing so, establish that the target was outside of arc? Did he therefore not fullfill what you are asking for:

- Measured range (for a turret)

- Measure arc: he is outside of arc.

He might not have answered the question of whether a shot in arc is in range 3, but he is not required to.

58 minutes ago, dotswarlock said:

Let me put this another way, by measuring from Dengar to the Decimator, from closest point to closest point, did he not also, by doing so, establish that the target was outside of arc? Did he therefore not fullfill what you are asking for:

- Measured range (for a turret)

- Measure arc: he is outside of arc.

He might not have answered the question of whether a shot in arc is in range 3, but he is not required to.

I’m not sure I understand what you mean by that. I argue that part of the process of measuring to the ship you declare as your target is measuring if it’s in your arc or not.

But the shortest line that you draw between an attacking turret ship and the defender doesn’t necessarily reveal if it’s in arc or not.

(Also, Dengar’s revenge shot measures range from the closest point, not closest point in arc if that’s what you’re suggesting)

10 minutes ago, Yearfire said:

I’m not sure I understand what you mean by that. I argue that part of the process of measuring to the ship you declare as your target is measuring if it’s in your arc or not.

But the shortest line that you draw between an attacking turret ship and the defender doesn’t necessarily reveal if it’s in arc or not.

(Also, Dengar’s revenge shot measures range from the closest point, not closest point in arc if that’s what you’re suggesting)

Rules reference, page 16, "Range":

"If attacking with a turret primary weapon or a secondary weapon that may target a ship outside the attacker’s firing arc, the attacker must measure to the closest point of the target ship even if that point is outside its firing arc."

The bold part is actually in bold in the rules reference (I'm not the one adding it). The rules specifically say how you must measure and it specifically ignores the arc.

1 hour ago, dotswarlock said:

Rules reference, page 16, "Range":

"If attacking with a turret primary weapon or a secondary weapon that may target a ship outside the attacker’s firing arc, the attacker must measure to the closest point of the target ship even if that point is outside its firing arc."

The bold part is actually in bold in the rules reference (I'm not the one adding it). The rules specifically say how you must measure and it specifically ignores the arc.

I didn’t catch that one. But I’m still not fully convinced that it’s relevant, because the problem we’re arguing about happens before a weapon is chosen, and even if you don’t have more than one weapon, they are two different steps.

10 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

Nowhere does that say you must measure range or arc to any ship.

The information produced by measuring range and arc is undeniably public, I've not suggested otherwise.

Put it this way:

Oicunn has Vader in front of him, OL at about 45 degrees, maybe in arc, maybe not, and vessery behind him.

He chooses to shoot vessery, so he doesn't measure range or arc to either other potential tartget. He's in no way required to.

Vessery has already shot Oicunn, and it was at range 2, so Oicunn has no need to measure range to vessery either.

Why should OL be able to find out if he's in Oicunn's arc or not?

Things are measured when they're required to be measured. The fact that there's a step to check range and arc for the attack doesn't mean that's the only time you can measure things.

It seems there is a misunderstanding and that you may not have actually read my earlier post/question.

When you get the chance to measure before making attacks I certainly can agree that you do NOT need to make the measurements and arc checks to any potential targets although that then excludes them from being valid targets for your attack. Whatever you DO choose to target must be checked although I can certainly see where there are two different ways to see if an attack is "in arc" or not: one way is to look in the arc to see if the target is there while the second is to show that the target can not possibly be in arc although I'm not sure there's anything in the game rules that specifies which method must be used.

Another question:

I have a ps10 ship against Dengar, and it places itself after a barrel roll in a place that at first glance may or may not be in Dengar's arc.

When this ship activates in the combat Phase, is it allowed to check if it is inside Dengar's arc to avoid its revenge shot?

1 hour ago, Arma Quattro said:

Another question:

I have a ps10 ship against Dengar, and it places itself after a barrel roll in a place that at first glance may or may not be in Dengar's arc.

When this ship activates in the combat Phase, is it allowed to check if it is inside Dengar's arc to avoid its revenge shot?

No. You can measure to see if Dengar is in your arc for the purpose of making an attack; but you can't check to see if the revenge shot will work. You've got to eyeball it and take a punt.

2 hours ago, Arma Quattro said:

Another question:

I have a ps10 ship against Dengar, and it places itself after a barrel roll in a place that at first glance may or may not be in Dengar's arc.

When this ship activates in the combat Phase, is it allowed to check if it is inside Dengar's arc to avoid its revenge shot?

As Dr Zoidberg said, you can't measure from his arc, only yours. Page 4 of the rulebook.

Quote

1. Declare Target: The attacker may measure range to any number of enemy ships and check which enemy ships are inside his firing arc. Then the attacker chooses one of his weapons to attack with. Then he chooses one enemy ship to be the target and pays any costs required for the attack.

okay thank you.

pls nerf ?