Why does it say (if able) when they have already made it clear that you can pick zero as an option. I pick something like remove a die but none are in the pool. You have to pick zero and still resolve it, as far as I understand the zero option that they push.

Yesterday I used Coercion on my opponent, and the only events he had in hand were 'Spot a Red character' events. His only red character had died the previous round. I suppose that's why it says 'if able' - if I'd picked Logistics, and he couldn't spot a Red character, then he'd be caught in some weird fugue state until I eventually passed. Unfortunately, it means sometimes you try to coerce someone, only to find you don't have enough leverage to actually force them to do anything.

2 hours ago, Ajones47 said:

Yesterday I used Coercion on my opponent, and the only events he had in hand were 'Spot a Red character' events. His only red character had died the previous round. I suppose that's why it says 'if able' - if I'd picked Logistics, and he couldn't spot a Red character, then he'd be caught in some weird fugue state until I eventually passed. Unfortunately, it means sometimes you try to coerce someone, only to find you don't have enough leverage to actually force them to do anything.

You actually are allowed to play spot events when you can't spot whatever you'd need to - the card simply does nothing. On events, spot is a cost for the effect to resolve, but not a play restriction. (it's in the rules reference, in the section about spotting)

If able is there to make sure I'm not coercing you to play an event that costs more resources than you have.

5 hours ago, ozmodon said:

Why does it say (if able) when they have already made it clear that you can pick zero as an option. I pick something like remove a die but none are in the pool. You have to pick zero and still resolve it, as far as I understand the zero option that they push.

Its a failsafe for futher expansions and interactions.... they do it right one time and people still ask why, lol
And there are events that explicitly say "play only if something".

4 hours ago, Ajones47 said:

Yesterday I used Coercion on my opponent, and the only events he had in hand were 'Spot a Red character' events. His only red character had died the previous round. I suppose that's why it says 'if able' - if I'd picked Logistics, and he couldn't spot a Red character, then he'd be caught in some weird fugue state until I eventually passed. Unfortunately, it means sometimes you try to coerce someone, only to find you don't have enough leverage to actually force them to do anything.

If fact from what im aware - "spot" is legal to play without this character - it just does not do anything if you cannot spot it.

This is why Coercion is extremely strong at this moment. 99% of events are legal to play, if you can afford it. Here is a few example of legit event played:

-Isolation without any die in play Won't remove anything)

-Tactical mastery without red character (Since you cant spot red, you do not gain action)

-Price of failure, with all character ready

-Recless reentry without vehicle in play.

etc.

Exeample of cannot be played:

-Friends in high place (Text clearly states: "Play only if..."

-Any event with a cost you cannot afford (You have 2, endless rank cost 5)

Chak

7 hours ago, Vitalis said:

Its a failsafe for futher expansions and interactions.... they do it right one time and people still ask why, lol
And there are events that explicitly say "play only if something".

If fact from what im aware - "spot" is legal to play without this character - it just does not do anything if you cannot spot it.

Ayyy that's excellent news.

20 hours ago, Chakan99939 said:

This is why Coercion is extremely strong at this moment. 99% of events are legal to play, if you can afford it. Here is a few example of legit event played:

-Isolation without any die in play Won't remove anything)

-Tactical mastery without red character (Since you cant spot red, you do not gain action)

-Price of failure, with all character ready

-Recless reentry without vehicle in play.

etc.

Exeample of cannot be played:

-Friends in high place (Text clearly states: "Play only if..."

-Any event with a cost you cannot afford (You have 2, endless rank cost 5)

Chak

Exacly - Coertion, aside from maybe Price of Failure is just delaying your turn not ruining it, people are just somehow scared of it.
You point isolation without any dice? Cool ill just wait.
Tactical Mastery? Ok 1 resource wasted.
Reentry? Ok 1 action wasted.

Lets face it - if you included that event in your deck you probably want to use it as some point anyway.

The only thing that prevent Coercion from being the strongest card ever is its color and allingment resteiction (Yellow villain).

Player underrestimate its potential to just destroy opponent ressources. In some match, i had to think twice between passing (And eventually lose my turn) or playing an event that wasted my ressources.

It's funny to play that card against someone that never played against it.

Btw, i'm playing coercion in every (Yellow villain) of my decks now, even if it does'nt fit with the theme, it's just too strong.

Chak

3 hours ago, Chakan99939 said:

The only thing that prevent Coercion from being the strongest card ever is its color and allingment resteiction (Yellow villain).

Player underrestimate its potential to just destroy opponent ressources. In some match, i had to think twice between passing (And eventually lose my turn) or playing an event that wasted my ressources.

It's funny to play that card against someone that never played against it.

Btw, i'm playing coercion in every (Yellow villain) of my decks now, even if it does'nt fit with the theme, it's just too strong.

Chak

It's not as strong as you think. Passing isn't an action so your opponent could pass until an optimal time to play the card you selected is presented to them or the round ends.

If you couldn't pass, it would be potentially the strongest card in the game. The Price of Failure or Noble Sacrifice would otherwise be nearly unplayable cards.

As it is, Coercion is a powerful 1 control card that every Yellow villain deck should be playing with.

The if able part is clearly so something like "i play coersion and force you to play rise again while you only have 2 resources" doesn't work

Also if you hit the right event like price of failure or quick escape forcing someone to live in pass city for 1 is huge.

In my opinion, Coersion is meant to be run with the guy shown on the card (Cad Bane), or other decks like him. It’s basically anti-dice control. I played against Cad Bane with my Quinlan/Ventress deck, and he used Coersion as the first action of the game to look at my hand and see what kind of dice control I had and then pick one and force me to either waste it or sit there passing until he’d rolled out and done all he wanted to (which is not what Ventress wants to do at all - she wants Quinlan to roll out and get some discards to prevent rerolls).

I also played against it earlier with my Mace Windu deck, and then I think we were unaware of the “pass isn’t an action” rule because it’s not spelled out very well in the rules reference (and sometimes if you assume that something is implied by the rules it’s actually not), so perhaps it’s not as powerful as it seemed when the Set first came out. But I think that it certainly has a place as being the yellow villain’s form of Hit and Run - basically a way to mess with your opponent’s timing and avoid dice control.

41 minutes ago, Kieransi said:

In my opinion, Coersion is meant to be run with the guy shown on the card (Cad Bane), or other decks like him. It’s basically anti-dice control. I played against Cad Bane with my Quinlan/Ventress deck, and he used Coersion as the first action of the game to look at my hand and see what kind of dice control I had and then pick one and force me to either waste it or sit there passing until he’d rolled out and done all he wanted to (which is not what Ventress wants to do at all - she wants Quinlan to roll out and get some discards to prevent rerolls).

I also played against it earlier with my Mace Windu deck, and then I think we were unaware of the “pass isn’t an action” rule because it’s not spelled out very well in the rules reference (and sometimes if you assume that something is implied by the rules it’s actually not), so perhaps it’s not as powerful as it seemed when the Set first came out. But I think that it certainly has a place as being the yellow villain’s form of Hit and Run - basically a way to mess with your opponent’s timing and avoid dice control.

I don't know, if you're playing Cad Bane right they aren't going to have an opportunity to remove your best dice anyway because you use his Action to play an Ambush weapon on him and hopefully resolve them before they get a chance to. I'd rather just play Friends in Low Place for free to see what they have and remove anything troublesome.

Given the ability to pass and wait, choosing removal isn't that great, IMO. You've basically just spent 1 resource, a card and an action, to have them do something they were likely going to do anyways, remove your best die.

The best cards to hit are Noble Sacrifice or Price of Failure, because they most likely have to pass for the rest of the round. It really seems like a wasted slot and resource in an aggressive deck like Cad Bane. It was way stronger before we realized you could pass (forcing my opponents to Electroshock their own dice was pretty good), but I've taken it out since then. Maybe I'm wrong though...

2 minutes ago, netherspirit1982 said:

It really seems like a wasted slot and resource in an aggressive deck like Cad Bane. It was way stronger before we realized you could pass (forcing my opponents to Electroshock their own dice was pretty good), but I've taken it out since then. Maybe I'm wrong though...

You’re probably right. As I said, the one time it really messed with me was my Mace Windu deck, which was before we knew the pass rule (and I wouldn’t have wanted to have to argue that anyway). I never said it was your best option for anti-dice control, I just think that’s probably its best use. Noble Sacrifice and Price of Failure are terrible cards, and I don’t ever play them. It’s almost impossible to set up, and you never draw those cards when you actually need them - they always get used as discards. And like you said, Coersion further kills those cards. I think that this is going to be one of those cases where you have two gimmicky but relatively weak cards that counter each other, and thus simultaneously push each other out of the meta.

2 hours ago, kingbobb said:

If you couldn't pass, it would be potentially the strongest card in the game. The Price of Failure or Noble Sacrifice would otherwise be nearly unplayable cards.

As it is, Coercion is a powerful 1 control card that every Yellow villain deck should be playing with.

1 hour ago, Kieransi said:

You’re probably right. As I said, the one time it really messed with me was my Mace Windu deck, which was before we knew the pass rule (and I wouldn’t have wanted to have to argue that anyway). I never said it was your best option for anti-dice control, I just think that’s probably its best use. Noble Sacrifice and Price of Failure are terrible cards, and I don’t ever play them. It’s almost impossible to set up, and you never draw those cards when you actually need them - they always get used as discards. And like you said, Coersion further kills those cards. I think that this is going to be one of those cases where you have two gimmicky but relatively weak cards that counter each other, and thus simultaneously push each other out of the meta.

Coercion is 100% counter vs price of failure or noble sacrifice:

-Play coercion

-Opponent skips entire turn unless he / she wants to kill a character

I know, I know, opponent could wait until you do some damage on a character then kill it with price of F. but the game quickly turns in your favor at this point anyway.

I only play price of F. now casual against friends, never again in tournaments.

Chak

If you can't play the card chosen you can do something else correct?

I think what we’ve decided is that you can actually play any event at any time. It just doesn’t do anything if you can’t pay the cost or spot the right color character, remove the right color dice, etc.

We don’t really know why it says “if able”... the same debate came up when FN-2199 was first revealed, saying to roll the die into your pool “if able”. I think the “if able” is just future-proofing the card so that they can use the FAQ rather than the errata to fix the card if neccesary.

"If able" is pretty clear to me:

-Look if there is a restriction (Play only...)

-No? Then play it. (The fact that it does nothing is not a restriction i itself)

Because if FFG would change that rule, imagine the following:

-Want to heal Emperor with 4 damage on him with rise again? Sorry, it heals 5...

-The best defense... deal 3 damage... Sorry you have 7 damage on a 8 health character...

-Opponent lose 3 ressources (You know, THAT card), sorry opponent has only 2 ressources...

-etc.

Chak

9 hours ago, netherspirit1982 said:

It's not as strong as you think. Passing isn't an action so your opponent could pass until an optimal time to play the card you selected is presented to them or the round ends.

A 1-cost event that can force your opponent to lose their entire turn? Yeah, nothing the least bit strong about that.

13 hours ago, Buhallin said:

A 1-cost event that can force your opponent to lose their entire turn? Yeah, nothing the least bit strong about that.

There's two cards that I can think of that could cause them to lose their entire turn, Price of Failure and Noble Sacrifice. Neither of which see much play.

Everything else you might gain some tempo by making them wait.

You're not going to choose something they can't play, only things they can play and so outside of forcing them to play a Spot card when they can't spot, I don't think there are that many good targets to try and force them into playing at bad times. If you choose removal (which is a large portion of the events in most decks) they just wait until you have dice, so at best you might gain some tempo if you have other actions to take before rolling in your characters.

So yeah, I'm sticking with it's not as strong as people think it is.

4 hours ago, netherspirit1982 said:

There's two cards that I can think of that could cause them to lose their entire turn, Price of Failure and Noble Sacrifice. Neither of which see much play.

Noble Sacrifice sure, but Price of Failure not seeing much play? Uhm... yeah, OK.

Not seeing many good targets for Coercion is a failure of imagination.

44 minutes ago, Buhallin said:

Noble Sacrifice sure, but Price of Failure not seeing much play? Uhm... yeah, OK.

Not seeing many good targets for Coercion is a failure of imagination.

In my area, no one is playing The Price of Failure because a lot of people are running villain yellow. That may change as the meta takes shape in the next few weeks.

Got any examples to enlighten my bad imagination?

3 minutes ago, netherspirit1982 said:

In my area, no one is playing The Price of Failure because a lot of people are running villain yellow. That may change as the meta takes shape in the next few weeks.

Got any examples to enlighten my bad imagination?

Price of Failure was/is a major component in the Rainbow 9s builds which have been dominant lately. If you're going to make statements about the use rate of a card, you should at least understand what the larger meta is doing outside your area.

Pretty crippling uses off the top of my head:

- Leadership costs a full activation (Noble Sacrifice requires you to kill a character to get the same result)
- Quick Escape and Day is Ours are turn enders
- Every removal card becomes both a massive tempo boost and forces suboptimal use of the card. Best Defense is especially bad.
- Reckless Re-Entry can become a high-probability support removal
- Any events which depend on your opponent having dice are wasted (e.g. My Ally is the Force, No Mercy)
- Sabotage, Confiscation, Disarm... force an opponent to pay the cost and discard their own support/upgrade
- Trickery. Complete hand removal.

Not all of these are great cards and likely to see play, obviously, but they demonstrate the crazy impact Coercion could have.

In the absolute worst case , it will reveal your opponent's hand, cost them a card, and probably a resource or three. It's very likely to give you a solid tempo boost, guarantee you will claim that turn, and force a suboptimal use of whatever card you target. Even without being able to sculpt a truly devastating effect, that would be a pretty powerful card. Friends in Low Places is considered a very solid card for doing a third of that. Add in that it basically puts certain events back in the box because they're simply too risky to ever play again, and it's a stupidly powerful card.

I've forced people to Buy-Out for only 2 resources, to kneel a character with Leadership, to make an opponent waste 2 resources on Abandon All Hope when I had no resources left, to Fairtrade giving me 4 and them gaining 1 or 0, to waste their It's a Trap on their lone Rookie Pilot that was rolled in... This card is bonkers good, possibly the best in the set.