And we're back to everyone's favorite show..... it's "how does 'considered engaged' work?!"

Allright, so today's question for $100, if I use the card Stealth ( https://arkhamdb.com/find?q=stealth ) against a massive enemy, presuming I pass the evade check.... what happens? is it

A) Essentially nothing
or is it
B) Something. (specify)

You disengage from the enemy and succeed an evade check (for purposes of cards like Pickpocket), but are immediately considered engaged again. Since massive enemies never become engaged with you, the clause on stealth that would prevent the evaded enemy from becoming engaged is meaningless.

I believe the opposite is true. The enemy is engaged with you despite not being in your threat area if its massive yet you can still evade it. I think stealths special condition that it can't engage you again until the end of the turn makes sense for massive enemies too. Specific card effects trump general game rules and that's stealths special effect. If you need any more proof, look at the card art itself. That cop is hiding from a huge enemy on par with one of Dunwich's abominable horrors.

Hmmm.... that might actually be a situation where Stealth is useful. Most massive enemies have a mechanic to untap before the enemy step anyways so if you needed to evade it to leave or play cards that would suddenly make stealth somewhat worthwhile.

So seeing as rogues can be adaptable, this would be a good level 0 card to sub into your deck if you know you're gonna go up against a massive enemy that refuses to stay exhausted which most of them do.

1 hour ago, Donel said:

I believe the opposite is true. The enemy is engaged with you despite not being in your threat area if its massive yet you can still evade it. I think stealths special condition that it can't engage you again until the end of the turn makes sense for massive enemies too. Specific card effects trump general game rules and that's stealths special effect. If you need any more proof, look at the card art itself. That cop is hiding from a huge enemy on par with one of Dunwich's abominable horrors.

Hmmm.... that might actually be a situation where Stealth is useful. Most massive enemies have a mechanic to untap before the enemy step anyways so if you needed to evade it to leave or play cards that would suddenly make stealth somewhat worthwhile.

So seeing as rogues can be adaptable, this would be a good level 0 card to sub into your deck if you know you're gonna go up against a massive enemy that refuses to stay exhausted which most of them do.

Massive enemies never engage you. They're just consider engaged for the purposes of Attacks of Opportunity or Machetes bonus damage. So the effect of Stealth is meaningless, since the Massive enemy was never going to engage you anyways.

4 hours ago, Network57 said:

Massive enemies never engage you. They're just consider engaged for the purposes of Attacks of Opportunity or Machetes bonus damage. So the effect of Stealth is meaningless, since the Massive enemy was never going to engage you anyways.

I think you're right going by definition of terms, but it might be worth officially asking the question to FFG directly.

11 hours ago, Donel said:

I believe the opposite is true. The enemy is engaged with you despite not being in your threat area if its massive yet you can still evade it.

The engagement protection is not evasion. Cards do what they say, and no more.

See also, Zoey doesn't gain a resource from massive enemies, because she never becomes engaged, even though she is considered engaged.

Becoming engaged is a specific moment that doesn't happen with massive enemies, so Stealth's ability has no effect in this regard.

11 hours ago, Donel said:

If you need any more proof, look at the card art itself.

Sorry, but lol at citing art for game rule interpretation. Otherwise Vicious Blow couldn't be used with firearms and Wendy could take Streetwise (both questions people have actually asked).

I still find it absurd wendy cant take streetwise. Such teases.

8 hours ago, Donel said:

I still find it absurd wendy cant take streetwise. Such teases.

If she were genuinely Streetwise, one could argue she should be doing better than being the Urchin.

All of those Permanents that spend resources to boost skills are designed to be only usable by the primary class of the investigator. They would be a bit too powerful if a character could get ahold of two different ones.

33 minutes ago, mwmcintyre said:

All of those Permanents that spend resources to boost skills are designed to be only usable by the primary class of the investigator. They would be a bit too powerful if a character could get ahold of two different ones.

I'm certainly not debating that. Honestly the first time we played through the game we didn't realize wendy wasn't a rogue. We had been playing her with her colors flipped.

Side note while we're already way off topic: Lola can buy all the permanents and I think that's a good strategy for her actually

2 hours ago, mwmcintyre said:

All of those Permanents that spend resources to boost skills are designed to be only usable by the primary class of the investigator. They would be a bit too powerful if a character could get ahold of two different ones.

Lola Hayes can take all of them, since she can take cards of all classes up to level 3 (though realistically, taking 2 complementary ones is her best course).

That is true, although she can only make use of one at a time. And she can't buy anything above that level for any of the classes. Limitations enough there to make up for the expanded capability.

Although I did notice one other interesting thing. The Survivor class has no cards above a level 3 XP cost so far, although they are also the only class to utilize the Exile keyword/ability on their cards.

1 hour ago, mwmcintyre said:

That is true, although she can only make use of one at a time. And she can't buy anything above that level for any of the classes. Limitations enough there to make up for the expanded capability.

Although I did notice one other interesting thing. The Survivor class has no cards above a level 3 XP cost so far, although they are also the only class to utilize the Exile keyword/ability on their cards.

Yeah I always considered that as one of the definers of the Survivor class (for now at least). Exile and cheapness.